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Gotta love the old salts!
The reason the old-timers didn't use electronics is because they weren't invented yet. If your idea of fun is a sextant an an old watch then go for it but it doesn't make you a better sailor and it sure doesn't make you safer. Heck, toss out the VHF and use mirrors to signal to shore. Essential electronics are: depth, VHF, GPS (preferably with plotter). If you have extra $ then get radar. Still have $, then get an EPRB. Still have $ then send it to me.
The reason the old-timers didn't use electronics is because they weren't invented yet. If your idea of fun is a sextant an an old watch then go for it but it doesn't make you a better sailor and it sure doesn't make you safer. Heck, toss out the VHF and use mirrors to signal to shore. Essential electronics are: depth, VHF, GPS (preferably with plotter). If you have extra $ then get radar. Still have $, then get an EPRB. Still have $ then send it to me.
Ok, small story.
I had a wonderful depth finder/knot meter/ log. I sailed down to some cabins that the state rents to pick up a guy I did work for and his best friend. Did I mention he located the dock with a flashlight. This is the end of the lake that goes from 30' to 2 feet in two boat lengths. So I take these guyon and we start to sail. I am watching the depth and knot meter because it was a very dark night and these guys were already tuned. We made it to the main body of the lake no problem.We had a great sail until someone hit the display of the depth finder/everything else electronic. The display shorted out. It was a rough trip back for me, the riders were having a ball. Only,because I had been there enough times and I had a chart that I worked off of, I made it back to drop them off and was able to get out of there without a problem. $70 later Horizon repair my display. When cruising unfamilar areas, we only do day cruises, or plan to arrive in early morning. Paper charts and local knowledge are priceless. r.w.landau
I had a wonderful depth finder/knot meter/ log. I sailed down to some cabins that the state rents to pick up a guy I did work for and his best friend. Did I mention he located the dock with a flashlight. This is the end of the lake that goes from 30' to 2 feet in two boat lengths. So I take these guyon and we start to sail. I am watching the depth and knot meter because it was a very dark night and these guys were already tuned. We made it to the main body of the lake no problem.We had a great sail until someone hit the display of the depth finder/everything else electronic. The display shorted out. It was a rough trip back for me, the riders were having a ball. Only,because I had been there enough times and I had a chart that I worked off of, I made it back to drop them off and was able to get out of there without a problem. $70 later Horizon repair my display. When cruising unfamilar areas, we only do day cruises, or plan to arrive in early morning. Paper charts and local knowledge are priceless. r.w.landau
Stu - that is me!!!
I am the Joe Higgins that used to be from Crystal Lake, IL and sailed out of Racine, WI when I wrote that letter to Cruising World. I still stand by it. In the last 10 years I have accumulated a bit more money and now have some of those luxurys I said were unceccessary - yet I still believe they are not needed. Nice to have, but not essential. I do now have roller furling and GPS with a FREE chart plotting program. My new (used) boat came with a wind angle indic ator, which broke two years ago and is still not fixed. I do have an anemometer and it is fun to see wind speed, but I still make sail choices on my cutter rig based not on wind speed, but on how the boat balances. The smurf tape is gone and I use a Windex. I am no longer on a mooring, but my boat is still not a marina queen. I put over 1200 miles on her last summer. I still think many of us have lost sight of what this sport is all about. If you have the money to buy the toys - go ahead, but don't pretend that those who don't have the toys are somehow being careless. With depth sounder, VHF and a cheap GPS one can go anywhere coastally ( a compass is assumed). Ross hits it head on - those sailing mags, who need advertising money, have to convince us that we need all this electronics crap. In the old days - it was a true accomplishment for a crew of two to cross an ocean in their 30 footer with only a sextant and a clock - there was no GPS. Nowdays, people think you are nuts to make that trip in anything less than a 40 footer with GPS/sat Nav/weather fax/email/water maker/epirb/sat phone/air conditioning/direct TV and a chase boat Any ocean crossing, even with all the gear, is an accomplishment to me, ( I have not done one), but I do think many of us have lost sight of the true self reliance that came out of the pre electronic age. Let's not disourage anyone from stepping out and embracing that philosophy. It can be done sensibly and safely.
I am the Joe Higgins that used to be from Crystal Lake, IL and sailed out of Racine, WI when I wrote that letter to Cruising World. I still stand by it. In the last 10 years I have accumulated a bit more money and now have some of those luxurys I said were unceccessary - yet I still believe they are not needed. Nice to have, but not essential. I do now have roller furling and GPS with a FREE chart plotting program. My new (used) boat came with a wind angle indic ator, which broke two years ago and is still not fixed. I do have an anemometer and it is fun to see wind speed, but I still make sail choices on my cutter rig based not on wind speed, but on how the boat balances. The smurf tape is gone and I use a Windex. I am no longer on a mooring, but my boat is still not a marina queen. I put over 1200 miles on her last summer. I still think many of us have lost sight of what this sport is all about. If you have the money to buy the toys - go ahead, but don't pretend that those who don't have the toys are somehow being careless. With depth sounder, VHF and a cheap GPS one can go anywhere coastally ( a compass is assumed). Ross hits it head on - those sailing mags, who need advertising money, have to convince us that we need all this electronics crap. In the old days - it was a true accomplishment for a crew of two to cross an ocean in their 30 footer with only a sextant and a clock - there was no GPS. Nowdays, people think you are nuts to make that trip in anything less than a 40 footer with GPS/sat Nav/weather fax/email/water maker/epirb/sat phone/air conditioning/direct TV and a chase boat Any ocean crossing, even with all the gear, is an accomplishment to me, ( I have not done one), but I do think many of us have lost sight of the true self reliance that came out of the pre electronic age. Let's not disourage anyone from stepping out and embracing that philosophy. It can be done sensibly and safely.
WOW
Joe, I've been posting that about once a year if not more since I ran across it. I was so taken by your letter that I typed it out and keep in on board and in my boat files, both hard copy and electronik...
It's a small world. I had a C25 when I first "captured" your letter, and we have a C34 now, keep her simple, our GPS is a free one we got from test driving a Cadillac a long time ago, Magellan GPS300, one of the earlier models. Please drop me an email through this board.
Joe, I've been posting that about once a year if not more since I ran across it. I was so taken by your letter that I typed it out and keep in on board and in my boat files, both hard copy and electronik...
It's a small world. I had a C25 when I first "captured" your letter, and we have a C34 now, keep her simple, our GPS is a free one we got from test driving a Cadillac a long time ago, Magellan GPS300, one of the earlier models. Please drop me an email through this board.
old salties (not salts)
Some are funny, claiming they do it the old way and some that keep up with the times. This guy Joe below doesn't do it the old way. The old way didn't have depth gages or VHF. So what he really is doing is sticking to what he was taught when he started and doesn't like to change with the times. This isn't a problem with just sailors. BTW: sextants aren't all that safe. Even experienced users make mistakes and totally miss their targets with them...namely Don Cassey...one of the most experienced sailors of modern times. I've never heard of anybody missing their target with GPS. Some say, "what if it breaks?". What if the sextant breaks? You have a backup. Some say "what if they turn it off?". It has never been turned off in over 20 years, so I'll take my chances with accuracy of 2' and a 99.999% reliability over something that could actually put me in the middle of the ocean like happened to Don. Radars aren't a show stopper but they sure make sailing in hazardous conditions safer. Now if you want to be so stubborn and stuck in the past and make your passages more risky, then that's up to you, but don't go making fun of those who want everything they can get to make their sailing as safe as possible.
Some are funny, claiming they do it the old way and some that keep up with the times. This guy Joe below doesn't do it the old way. The old way didn't have depth gages or VHF. So what he really is doing is sticking to what he was taught when he started and doesn't like to change with the times. This isn't a problem with just sailors. BTW: sextants aren't all that safe. Even experienced users make mistakes and totally miss their targets with them...namely Don Cassey...one of the most experienced sailors of modern times. I've never heard of anybody missing their target with GPS. Some say, "what if it breaks?". What if the sextant breaks? You have a backup. Some say "what if they turn it off?". It has never been turned off in over 20 years, so I'll take my chances with accuracy of 2' and a 99.999% reliability over something that could actually put me in the middle of the ocean like happened to Don. Radars aren't a show stopper but they sure make sailing in hazardous conditions safer. Now if you want to be so stubborn and stuck in the past and make your passages more risky, then that's up to you, but don't go making fun of those who want everything they can get to make their sailing as safe as possible.
Stu - that is me!!!
Looked for you email, but I was not able to get it. I, too used that same Magellan for a number of years and passed it on to a younger sailor getting into the sport. I never did drive the car. The salesman asked me if I was just in it for the GPS, and when I leveled with him he just signed the form. I did not want to waste his time. I still drive a Corolla. I had just moved up from a Paceship 24 to an Irwin 32 when I wrote that so I can see how we were at similar stages. I now have a Nassua 34, a Taiwanese boat. It is a lot fancier than my Irwin, with reefer, hot water, and a shower, but still no luxury liner. I plan to sail her to Bermuda in the next 3 or 4 years just for the hell of it and becasue she is capable. For now, I am in Lake Ontario and plan to spend a year or two exploring here before I move on.
Looked for you email, but I was not able to get it. I, too used that same Magellan for a number of years and passed it on to a younger sailor getting into the sport. I never did drive the car. The salesman asked me if I was just in it for the GPS, and when I leveled with him he just signed the form. I did not want to waste his time. I still drive a Corolla. I had just moved up from a Paceship 24 to an Irwin 32 when I wrote that so I can see how we were at similar stages. I now have a Nassua 34, a Taiwanese boat. It is a lot fancier than my Irwin, with reefer, hot water, and a shower, but still no luxury liner. I plan to sail her to Bermuda in the next 3 or 4 years just for the hell of it and becasue she is capable. For now, I am in Lake Ontario and plan to spend a year or two exploring here before I move on.
Once again, I gotta say, a big part
of the joy of sailing is the different ways we enjoy it. I love my autopilot and roller furling jib, but I don't need much in the way of electronics. I will glady share a libation and swap information or (friendly) insults as the occasion indicates on the subject of how we sail and equip our vessels. Sailing is so damn personal. Anybody who thinks they know what the other guys SHOULD have, has their head up somewhere dark.
of the joy of sailing is the different ways we enjoy it. I love my autopilot and roller furling jib, but I don't need much in the way of electronics. I will glady share a libation and swap information or (friendly) insults as the occasion indicates on the subject of how we sail and equip our vessels. Sailing is so damn personal. Anybody who thinks they know what the other guys SHOULD have, has their head up somewhere dark.
interesting rhetoric
"I can no longer remain silent. At first I thought it was just a few eccentrics..." "I am proud to say that my boat is not a marina queen..." "We have lost sight of nature, of ourselves, and our God..." "These are elitist statements made by people who know nothing..."
"I can no longer remain silent. At first I thought it was just a few eccentrics..." "I am proud to say that my boat is not a marina queen..." "We have lost sight of nature, of ourselves, and our God..." "These are elitist statements made by people who know nothing..."
I don't believe that there is a seaport
anywhere in the world that hasn't been entered by vessels that have crossed wide water with neither engine nor electronics. I will not scorn the modern electronic systems but at the same time I refuse to endorce them as necessary. A GPS receiver is certainly the most accurate and convenient method for determining position. A modern depth sounder that shows bottom profiles is far better than a sounding pole. Columbus sailed with the best navigation systems available at the time of his voyages. We do however have eyes and can watch the skies and the sea and know what tomorrow will bring in terms of weather. Weather fax may tell us what we will face next week but it won't change anything. 100 miles per day is all that you can depend on for an ocean crossing so you can't run away from the weather with any more certainty if you have weather fax rather than just careful observation of the barometer the sky and the sea state. Of the thousands of boats on the oceans it is rare that they ever see each other. That is a big ocean out there and those boats are very small.
anywhere in the world that hasn't been entered by vessels that have crossed wide water with neither engine nor electronics. I will not scorn the modern electronic systems but at the same time I refuse to endorce them as necessary. A GPS receiver is certainly the most accurate and convenient method for determining position. A modern depth sounder that shows bottom profiles is far better than a sounding pole. Columbus sailed with the best navigation systems available at the time of his voyages. We do however have eyes and can watch the skies and the sea and know what tomorrow will bring in terms of weather. Weather fax may tell us what we will face next week but it won't change anything. 100 miles per day is all that you can depend on for an ocean crossing so you can't run away from the weather with any more certainty if you have weather fax rather than just careful observation of the barometer the sky and the sea state. Of the thousands of boats on the oceans it is rare that they ever see each other. That is a big ocean out there and those boats are very small.
I don’t have much to add about instruments
Franklin said, “BTW: sextants aren't all that safe” Sextants are safe; it’s the people using them that aren’t safe. I don’t have much to add about instruments. I sail to enjoy the experience of sailing and find instruments just detract from the pure pleasure of sailing. Noting wrong with them if that what you want but I prefer a heads up type of sailing instead of a fly by wire experience. All the best, Robert Gainer
Franklin said, “BTW: sextants aren't all that safe” Sextants are safe; it’s the people using them that aren’t safe. I don’t have much to add about instruments. I sail to enjoy the experience of sailing and find instruments just detract from the pure pleasure of sailing. Noting wrong with them if that what you want but I prefer a heads up type of sailing instead of a fly by wire experience. All the best, Robert Gainer
Ross, Sailing the ocean blue must have been
exciting and wonderfull before all those containers ships lost portions of their loads. As big as that ocean is, those floaters would have me awake at least half way across. Then again, the way Slocum did it would have been just as exciting. Navigation is possible with the minimum but sure is a breeze with the available electronics. Back to the main question, for your sailing in daylight, brand is what works for you. If you are going intergated, stick with one brand. If you are going basic, chose what you can read in an instant. Since most of your sailing will be in sight of land, go basic, Depth, speed, log, compass, a hand held Gps would work but if he money is there go for it. I use the depth finder all the time. I like the knot meter just as a boost in how things are going, The log is great at the end of the day. My hand held GPS is just a check on my paper chart planning, and sight navigation. Sometimes we need to remember that sailing is what we are doing, not instrument reading. enjoy the sail! r.w.landau
exciting and wonderfull before all those containers ships lost portions of their loads. As big as that ocean is, those floaters would have me awake at least half way across. Then again, the way Slocum did it would have been just as exciting. Navigation is possible with the minimum but sure is a breeze with the available electronics. Back to the main question, for your sailing in daylight, brand is what works for you. If you are going intergated, stick with one brand. If you are going basic, chose what you can read in an instant. Since most of your sailing will be in sight of land, go basic, Depth, speed, log, compass, a hand held Gps would work but if he money is there go for it. I use the depth finder all the time. I like the knot meter just as a boost in how things are going, The log is great at the end of the day. My hand held GPS is just a check on my paper chart planning, and sight navigation. Sometimes we need to remember that sailing is what we are doing, not instrument reading. enjoy the sail! r.w.landau
Higgs, this is an ethereal meduim
of communication. You don't know for sure if I AM still alive. I appreciate your company in my odd attitude. Almost seriously, though, when a bunch of us sit in somebody's cockpit in a nice anchorange and express our nautical opinions, we may holler, we may hurl insults, but we mostly stay friends. No real threat to life and limb.
of communication. You don't know for sure if I AM still alive. I appreciate your company in my odd attitude. Almost seriously, though, when a bunch of us sit in somebody's cockpit in a nice anchorange and express our nautical opinions, we may holler, we may hurl insults, but we mostly stay friends. No real threat to life and limb.
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