I recently bought a 1973 Ranger 26. It currently has no electronics. Ive only ever sailed on a Bolger Nymph which has no electronics. Im wishing to install shore to ship power, a radio, fm/am radio with speakers, and mostly Navigation lights. can anyone provide advice on what would be needed to properly run all of that. And how I would be able to keep battery charged for over night stays?
Electrical Installation!!!! Help!!!
- Thread starter joranderson757
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check out west marine website, they have nice how-to articles. Nigel Calder also has series of sailboat maintenance books that are often recommended, AND MAINESAIL our site expert on things technical has a website with more information than can be absorbed: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
I would look for a good Marine electric book and you will need to start from scratch and most likely with a main panel of some sort.
When I did some electric in my house I got a book to help with some wiring which I new nothing about and have some Marine electric books on my boat to help with any wiring I needed to do and also great help here.
Nick
When I did some electric in my house I got a book to help with some wiring which I new nothing about and have some Marine electric books on my boat to help with any wiring I needed to do and also great help here.
Nick
Part of the question involves your background. I think only you can look at a book and determine if it is at your level. Some folks may be able to just pick up a quick reference guide but others need a whole education. If you live where you have easy access to marine books, thumb through some. Marine wiring has focus on several important areas: vibration and corrosion are key here along with all the standard electrical things such as wire size, cost, circuit protection, craftsmanship, etc. Doing this kind of project is not beyond most people's ability, but most don't do their homework first.
You may want to check out "Musings with Main Sail" as he does a nice job of explaning things. http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?forums/musings-with-maine-sail.135/
Ken
You may want to check out "Musings with Main Sail" as he does a nice job of explaning things. http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?forums/musings-with-maine-sail.135/
Ken
You can start by obtaining a copy of Sailboat Electrics Simplified by Don Casey. I think I bought my copy from SBO store. In the most simplified form, you will need a single 12V battery (deep cycle is most suitable), wired to a switch and a panel. All your lights, radios, etc will be wired to the panel. You may want a few functions (auto bilge pump?) wired directly to your battery. It is very important to read about the connections and locations for fuses. Be sure to have that subject well thought out for your boat's safety.
For charging, perhaps the alternator from your auxiliary engine (inboard or outboard?) will serve. If no alternator, then you will need a solar charger, most likely. That could be a simple connection. I'm assuming you are not connected to shore power, but if you are, then A/C electrics is a whole nother mix in the cake.
Be sure to search the archives in this forum and keep your eyes out for electrical related topics. You'll learn a lot and get some good advise in this forum.
Also keep in mind that boat electrics have much different wiring and connection needs than house wiring because of the moisture and vibration. For instance, wire nuts are a total no-no on a boat, as is solid copper wire. To make it right, your wiring and connections will need to be stranded wire (and tinned), properly sized (gauged) with moisture protected connections, properly crimped (many prefer soldered) to appropriate terminals, such as captured rings, etc. Perhaps you are already aware, but if not, this forum is invaluable for advise. Casey's book will lead you in the right direction
For charging, perhaps the alternator from your auxiliary engine (inboard or outboard?) will serve. If no alternator, then you will need a solar charger, most likely. That could be a simple connection. I'm assuming you are not connected to shore power, but if you are, then A/C electrics is a whole nother mix in the cake.
Be sure to search the archives in this forum and keep your eyes out for electrical related topics. You'll learn a lot and get some good advise in this forum.
Also keep in mind that boat electrics have much different wiring and connection needs than house wiring because of the moisture and vibration. For instance, wire nuts are a total no-no on a boat, as is solid copper wire. To make it right, your wiring and connections will need to be stranded wire (and tinned), properly sized (gauged) with moisture protected connections, properly crimped (many prefer soldered) to appropriate terminals, such as captured rings, etc. Perhaps you are already aware, but if not, this forum is invaluable for advise. Casey's book will lead you in the right direction
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Books are very good for learning this stuff. The internet, while good for answering specific questions, is less than stellar for basic material. BoatUS has some "How To" articles.
Try this:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.msg40656.html#msg40656
Try this:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.msg40656.html#msg40656
My initial reaction reading joanderson's question is also along the lines of Scot T-Bird:
joanderson has in mind a very modest list of electronics ... particularly if 12v LED is installed for the cabin and nagivation lights. Amp draw should be light.
Perhaps AC isn't really necessary, at least for "phase 1" of the project. A (say) 40-60w solar panel, a good charge controller, and a couple of (say) group 27 batteries should be way more than enough to get through the night. And 40-60 watts solar should be enough to fully recharge during the next day. Keeping it all DC for now would simplify. Later, if a coffee maker, toaster, a large screen TV, etc are desired, then AC could be added.
I have a 20w solar panel on my 1980 36 Hunter. Using the boat primarily as daysailer, I never plug into shore power. When sailing in the afternoon, the 20w panel, plus alternator charging during the 20 minutes of motoring in/out, pretty much keeps up with the stereo on, the depth/speed instruments, the GPS and the autopilot. Any deficit (like a battery reading of ~12.5v) is made up within a day or two on 20w solar.
joanderson has in mind a very modest list of electronics ... particularly if 12v LED is installed for the cabin and nagivation lights. Amp draw should be light.
Perhaps AC isn't really necessary, at least for "phase 1" of the project. A (say) 40-60w solar panel, a good charge controller, and a couple of (say) group 27 batteries should be way more than enough to get through the night. And 40-60 watts solar should be enough to fully recharge during the next day. Keeping it all DC for now would simplify. Later, if a coffee maker, toaster, a large screen TV, etc are desired, then AC could be added.
I have a 20w solar panel on my 1980 36 Hunter. Using the boat primarily as daysailer, I never plug into shore power. When sailing in the afternoon, the 20w panel, plus alternator charging during the 20 minutes of motoring in/out, pretty much keeps up with the stereo on, the depth/speed instruments, the GPS and the autopilot. Any deficit (like a battery reading of ~12.5v) is made up within a day or two on 20w solar.
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Keep in mind that the size and complexity for an electrical installation depends on the power needs and the intended use for the boat. Conduct what is known as a Power Survey; anticipate your power usage for the average 24 hour period by finding out the power consumption in Amps/hour for every electrical fixture in the boat and then estimate the time that each will be used (for example a fixture that is rated a 1A if used for three hours will require 3Ah from the battery as opposed to a fixture that might be rated for 3A but only used for 15 minutes that will only use 0.75 Ah for the period). Tally up the anticipated usage and come up with your daily requirement figure whether it is 10, 30 or 50 Ah. Once you know the figure then you know the amount of power you must supply via the size and number of batteries. The commonly used batteries come in sizes of Group 24-85 Ah or Group 27-110 Ah. You would need a deep discharge batteries as they can withstand multiple cycles of charge /discharge. In order to preserve their useful life it is not recommended they be discharged beyond 50% of their capacity which would be 42 and 55 Ah respectively. If your previous power survey indicates a 24 hour need of 30Ah or below then you can safely say you only need one battery. Adding a second battery provides redundancy or backup plus extend the usage beyond a single 24 hour period. The cheapest most efficient way to recharge a battery is with 120V shorepower and an electrical charger obviously not available at anchor. The options would be solar panel or portable gas generator. Each have their pros and cons. For a boat kept on a mooring solar panels might be the solution but for a boat kept in a marina or on the trailer a 120V charger will be the best. Have seen folks taking their batteries home to recharge after every outing (gets old fast). To do and electrical installation you have to fuse each circuit and use a wire gauge corresponding to the load and the roundtrip wire distance to the battery. Installing a panel with circuit breakers will facilitate the turning on and off of individual circuits as well as simplify the installation of fuses. This is very basic stuff and just intended to suggest for you some of the areas that you would need to familiarize yourself with when considering an electrical install. Hope this helps.
Basically all the items that you said you want to install don't take any special requirements beyond the basics of 12v wiring. In other words, it is not like wiring an inboard engine, or more elaborate equipment. A VHF radio, for example has two wires to power it. One from the negative side of the battery and the other from the positive side. Same with the stereo system. Where is gets a bit confusing is figuring out all the wiring on a stereo to accommodate two cockpit and two interior speakers, but the diagragm that usually comes with the stereo (AM/FM/CD etc) shows how to do it and it is all color coded. Navigation lights, cabin lights, etc. unlike radios and motors, don't even have to have the right polarity when you hook them up as they will work regardless of how you wire the two wires together. There are some multi function light fixtures, however, that are a little more complicated to wire, but not really, and usually easily defined in the paperwork that comes with the fixture. A motor, like a bilge pump will run back wards if you wire it wrong. Any light, or radio, which can be referred to as a the "load" in electrical terms, can be wired through a switch panel and each item labeled. The positive wire from the battery source (which usually is the battery switch) goes to the panel which contains the fuses or breakers. To complete the circuit the negative lead wire goes to a buss bar separate from the positive connection (they shouldn't touch). There is one positive wire which goes to the switch panel (usually 10 ga) and that will have a bar soldered in place that accesses each switch position. The switch completes the circuit or cuts it off to supply or not supply electricity to the load or light or whatever it is feeding. Like I said before, the positive (hot) wire - usually red with lights - goes from the switch panel and the negative wire from the other negative collection point (usually black), to the light(s) the switch is designed to power. If you are talking running lights, then one switch would operate the red and green lights at the bow (usually) as well as the stern light. Another switch would run your bow/steaming light and another switch would operate your masthead anchor light. Another switch would operate your cabin lights.....on and on. You can buy a panel with as many switches as you wish. Sometimes people will wire a VHF Marine radio directly to the battery so no switch other than the on/off knob on the VHF has to be flicked to power the VHF and this is for emergency reasons. Sometimes you will see black and white wires (white would be the hot side), like for a bilge pump. None of this should be confused with shore power, which is a completely different source of electricity and should be kept separate from the 12 volt system. A different breaker panel all together. Unlike the 12v system, the shore power system will have a double breaker where both the hot and the negative side is disconnected when the breaker breaks. A third wire (green) is the ground. But that is another lesson.
Hi Joranderson
I can't add to what has been offered here.. the books suggested are good and I have copies... I've also looked over Main Sails site. If you want to do it "right" that is the path to take.... but I'd like to offer an out-of-the box suggestion.
It is possible to outfit your boat with all of those appliances you mentioned as stand alone devices. The cabin lights could be LED "puck" lights that run on AA batteries. The am/fm could be a boom box and the nav. lights can be purchased at Walmart as self contained flashlights that bolt to your rail when needed. Then you would just need to buy a solar powered battery charger or simply buy a set of batteries each season.
I have restored 8 old sailboats so I've done a lot of wiring and over time it seems that a lot of stuff wears out or breaks long before it gets used a lot. For instance, I can get a puck light for $12 at Walmart or Amazon. If it stops working after three seasons, I can simply replace it for far less than what it would cost to hard wire that into my boat and then buy a light with the word "marine grade" on it. And nav. lights!!! How often do you actually sail after dark? I don't sail in the dark often so ... my nav lights sit unused most of the time and when I do need them, I'm likely to have a corroded connection.
For an anchor light, hang one of those LED camping lanterns off of the boom.
The last thing you said you wanted was shore power. Run the shore cord into the boat and connect it to an outlet pod with a good quality surge protector and circuit breaker (like the kind you plug your computer into). Or better yet... for this one you should probably do it "right", actually run the cord into a marine grade circuit breaker then run that into your outlet pod. You would actually have to wire only ONE component to do this in a safe and quick way.
Except for the circuit breaker for shore power...You could have the entire project done before noon tomorrow. You would spend a LOT less money and a LOT!!!! less time crimping wires, running down shorts and trying to force a wire to wind its way through a very small space (probably full of spiders anyway).
One thing you didn't have on your list was a set of fans. Look at the O2Cool products. I have three of these on my boat. Two D cells last all week. Get rechargeable batteries and a solar battery charger and you can have your electronics all topped off by Friday ... ready for another weekend on the boat.
Okay... so that is kind of a kooky suggestion but... something to consider.
Full disclosure... on my current boat, I have it all wired up "correctly" with a solar panel that keeps the battery bank topped off. But I do have a project Rhodes 22 that I'm thinking of fixing up for the kids to have... and on that boat, I'm going spartan on the electronics.
I can't add to what has been offered here.. the books suggested are good and I have copies... I've also looked over Main Sails site. If you want to do it "right" that is the path to take.... but I'd like to offer an out-of-the box suggestion.
It is possible to outfit your boat with all of those appliances you mentioned as stand alone devices. The cabin lights could be LED "puck" lights that run on AA batteries. The am/fm could be a boom box and the nav. lights can be purchased at Walmart as self contained flashlights that bolt to your rail when needed. Then you would just need to buy a solar powered battery charger or simply buy a set of batteries each season.
I have restored 8 old sailboats so I've done a lot of wiring and over time it seems that a lot of stuff wears out or breaks long before it gets used a lot. For instance, I can get a puck light for $12 at Walmart or Amazon. If it stops working after three seasons, I can simply replace it for far less than what it would cost to hard wire that into my boat and then buy a light with the word "marine grade" on it. And nav. lights!!! How often do you actually sail after dark? I don't sail in the dark often so ... my nav lights sit unused most of the time and when I do need them, I'm likely to have a corroded connection.
For an anchor light, hang one of those LED camping lanterns off of the boom.
The last thing you said you wanted was shore power. Run the shore cord into the boat and connect it to an outlet pod with a good quality surge protector and circuit breaker (like the kind you plug your computer into). Or better yet... for this one you should probably do it "right", actually run the cord into a marine grade circuit breaker then run that into your outlet pod. You would actually have to wire only ONE component to do this in a safe and quick way.
Except for the circuit breaker for shore power...You could have the entire project done before noon tomorrow. You would spend a LOT less money and a LOT!!!! less time crimping wires, running down shorts and trying to force a wire to wind its way through a very small space (probably full of spiders anyway).
One thing you didn't have on your list was a set of fans. Look at the O2Cool products. I have three of these on my boat. Two D cells last all week. Get rechargeable batteries and a solar battery charger and you can have your electronics all topped off by Friday ... ready for another weekend on the boat.
Okay... so that is kind of a kooky suggestion but... something to consider.
Full disclosure... on my current boat, I have it all wired up "correctly" with a solar panel that keeps the battery bank topped off. But I do have a project Rhodes 22 that I'm thinking of fixing up for the kids to have... and on that boat, I'm going spartan on the electronics.
You have an awesome opportunity to set up your boat's electrical system exactly the way you want to. I would advise you to read up heavily and look at lots of other boats before you buy anything. See what you like and what you don't. Start with a good battery, a charger and a distribution panel. You can build everything from there. But research everything to death before you buy anything. Just my .02. Best of luck and have fun.
I powered my 1971 Ranger 26 on a mooring for 20 years with a solar panel & it was more than adequate. It’s odd that all the stock original hard wired cabin lights, etc in your Ranger are gone.. I put in a Rolls group 27 120 amp hour deep discharge marine grade battery for the Group 24 original. I have both an alternator on my outboard engine to charge the battery while running & a removable Siemens solar panel (70 watt) I bought from a solar roof guy for a lot less than a marine one. I have a charge controller between the solar panel & the battery & I run the alternator through it also, but some just run the alternator lines directly to the battery. I swapped all the old bulbs for LEDs. I have 3 main cabin lights, one berth reading light, standalone GPS, chart light over the table, bilge pump, stereo CD Bluetooth player, VHF, running & anchor lights, one cigarette lighter outlet & full instrumentation. I replaced a wonderful old Nexus sail instrument system that died after 20 years of flawless use with the crappy Garmin system that was supposed to be seamlessly integrated with the old Nexus. It isn’t anywhere near as functional as the original Nexus. The solar panel is more than adequate on its own for the load & the alternator is a bonus. I also installed an AC panel & outlets mainly for shore power battery charger & tools but I hardly need it. Itx just a convenience when dockside. It’s also a lot more complicated to wire AC due to serious safety issues. You should make sure your rig, keel, metal through hulls & battery etc are all “Bonded” & grounded (mine terminate to iron keel via the keel bolts.) Casey talks about that I think. You’ll need a breaker panel or fuse panel with enough spaces to connect all your electronics on individual circuits to the battery. On a full charge I can go 2-3 days at anchor without good sun if I’m careful with power. If the sun shines I’m fully charged most of the time. Hope this helps
I forth the suggestions is sounds like your power needs are modest, consider avoiding the complexity and hazards of AC wiring.