I'm guessing, unconsciously, sailor's feel that if they can walk there faster, something needs to be done.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Electric re-sale value?
- Thread starter Hogdriver
- Start date
-Will (Dragonfly)
Interesting - only a few sailors (engineless) and no auto drivers are free from range “anxiety”.
It’s also likely that the few sailors who are confident enough to enter a crowded marina or anchorage under sail alone also are pretty relaxed about when they arrive or depart.
I’m not so sure that the “anxiety” of ICE is less than EP. If for any reason your “engine” doesn’t work your left with sails only or on the side of the road, neither of which has much appeal
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That makes sense to me. I can see that changing as a higher and higher percentage of new cars are electric and as boat builders equipe with electric from the factory. It may not change in our lifetime but I'd bet that it will before my grandkids are my age. Things are changing so quickly in todays world.
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
We LOVE electric. Period. I'd LOVE to convert to dual azipods driven by electric motors supported by solar electric and auxiliary diesel generator! As is, we try to minimize the use of our engine, and haven't started the generator for 2 years (I really not to start it to make sure we CAN!). Once we converted to 12V refrigeration, after adding 3 more solar panels, weve been enjoying the quiet, and avoiding the gas dock.
Regardless, I really want to get a Torqeedo outboard for the dink, so we can recharge from the boat, not have to chase gas, and be able to lift the 37# motor off the dink with ease.
As I said, we LOVE electric. After finishing the house down here, finally - after the hurricanes set us back, I am please to report that we are able to maintain quite happily with 7.2kW of solar on the roof, and NO connection to the grid. With it we comfortably power the house, A/C, pool, and charge the electric car. While the care only has a 90 mile range, that is typically more than adequate, considering the entire island is only 28 miles long, and we rarely drive more than 20-30 miles round trip.
We don't do solar and electric because we are eco-freaks, or 'carbon footprint" fanatics. We do it because we like it, we can, and we prefer to spend out money on that rather than on petroleum, and because it is sustainable. We also happen to feel that the "break even" is a lot better than argued, but break even also doesn't take into consideration the aesthetics of being independent of other energy sources.
Anybody want to buy a 130hp Perkins diesel?
Regardless, I really want to get a Torqeedo outboard for the dink, so we can recharge from the boat, not have to chase gas, and be able to lift the 37# motor off the dink with ease.
As I said, we LOVE electric. After finishing the house down here, finally - after the hurricanes set us back, I am please to report that we are able to maintain quite happily with 7.2kW of solar on the roof, and NO connection to the grid. With it we comfortably power the house, A/C, pool, and charge the electric car. While the care only has a 90 mile range, that is typically more than adequate, considering the entire island is only 28 miles long, and we rarely drive more than 20-30 miles round trip.
We don't do solar and electric because we are eco-freaks, or 'carbon footprint" fanatics. We do it because we like it, we can, and we prefer to spend out money on that rather than on petroleum, and because it is sustainable. We also happen to feel that the "break even" is a lot better than argued, but break even also doesn't take into consideration the aesthetics of being independent of other energy sources.
Anybody want to buy a 130hp Perkins diesel?
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
Good point. TeslsaWall batteries have a 10 year warranty, and I think that is for something like 90% capacity (though it might be 70%, not sure). I know I had the same concern, which was fed by naysayers, back when we bought a Prius (yeah, I know) back in 2005. FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) crowd said, "it will cost you $2000-3000 to replace those batteries! Well, 10 years and 305,000 miles later (when someone hit the wife and totaled it), we were still averaging 50mpg, and interestingly, never did have to replace those expensive batteries. YMMV
B
We'll sail & be floating along like a leaf on the water doing 2-3 knots in light winds, most everyone else is hammered down motoring doing 6+ knots.
Sailing at 6+ knots is alot of fun, motoring not so much to this old guy. Spoiled after a lifetime of zipping along at 20-25 knots on sportfishing boats, hitting 65 on the lakes in bass boats.
That's what I love about sailing & having EP. The peace & quiet is one of life's greatest pleasures.
Childhood memories of skating upwind on the lake with a buddy until absolutely breathless. Stop, turn around and we each grab corners of a bedsheet using it as a “sail”. All you could hear was the skates rattling along and your buddy laughing. Same feeling I get most of the time I’m under sail. Pleasurable indeed!
If I were to consider distant cruising and living on a sailboat for several years (I'm not), it would only be on a sailboat capable of supplying all it's own power via alternative energy, mostly solar. I would have no interest lugging around a complicated support system fueled by diesel fuel. I'd walk past every typical 'globe girdler' that's for sale today.
I would expect this to cost more up front, same as building a Net-Zero house (similar to what you describe of your own place).
Net Zero living on a sailboat - or in a house, successfully, includes conservation.
I'm good with conservation as long as my systems are capable of keeping me comfortable. The freedom would be half the fun.
All in all, I find a typical sailboat too much baggage for the long distance travel.
If I did go on a sailboat, it would have to feel as light as a carry-on bag, my preference for travel.
This aspect above; light, quiet, uncomplicated propulsion at the flick of a switch, is what particularly interests me.
I adopted the typical '4 knot or bust' boat speed mantra years ago while cruising up and down the East coast a couple of times. While great fun, we sailed very few of our miles on those cruises. `
Fully recovered years later,...I'm a hopeless light air sailor today.
But my old boat, while surprisingly nimble due to a healthy SA/D, starts to lose consciousness below about 1.5 knots of boat speed. Lulls in typical light wind conditions are often intermittent.
Sometimes all it takes is patience and a change in sail trim before a light breeze again attaches itself to your sails.
These dead spots can spoil an otherwise superb sail.
Rattling in a bit of a sea or starting the diesel means you have to begin again to find the sweet spot in the wind. Truth is, once you fire up a diesel the sailing is usually lost. You'll not feel the wind again until it rises well past near perfect sailing conditions.
With just the light turn of a prop (maybe a smaller feathering prop somewhere below?) to sustain the boats forward motion as you pass through a lee or lull, would be all it takes to maintain continuity.
I'm lucky in that my family doesn't feel the nagging tug of 4 knots boat speed.
They much prefer to be under sail even if it means only traveling at 2 to 3 knots. At times I believe they prefer, only sailing at 2 to 3 knots.
Perhaps a little experimenting with an electric trolling motor to see if it would
maintain momentum????
Might be easier to maintain momentum if the crew wasn't dragging the cameraman along behind...
Great shot @TomY (as usual)! Water is like glass, and the boat is just easing along - making barely a ripple. Relaxing just to see the photo.
Great shot @TomY (as usual)! Water is like glass, and the boat is just easing along - making barely a ripple. Relaxing just to see the photo.
Some of my favorite moments, even at 11 years old in my pram, were when the wind was just enough to keep the sail from flopping loosely. Quite, relaxing, no demands or expectations or judgments from others. Soak it up and feel the connection to the World. The powerboat that roars past, noise level spiked, that is like pulling the plug on that connection.
-Will (Dragonfly)
-Will (Dragonfly)
I agree with you 100%. We enjoy hanging on the hook with enough solar power to run the fridge and charge the Torqeedo. I think if my Universal ever died, I'd consider going all electric. I worked on streetcars for a major transit authority for 25 years, and am very familiar with electric propulsion. This is definitely the way to go in the future. Now, if I could only afford a Tesla!
Well, I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful replies, especially the ones that had some comparative resale numbers or pros and cons. The subject certainly generated some excellent discussion. I am mostly a bay sailor. It's not really an economic proposition, most personal preference. I've flown sailplanes and sailed most of my life, and as you all know, there's something magical about being able to work the wind, enjoy the relative quiet and eschew fossil fuels (one of you dutifully pointed out that fossil fuels are still involved in the manufacture of components, etc.). My wife (a nice woman but not really the sailing type), asks me "...But why do you want to do this?" "Because I can", is my answer, but I realize that isn't a very thoughtful or convincing answer.
Again, many thanks to you all, your replies exceeded my expectations! I'll let you all know if this takes shape. Thanks!
-Al
Again, many thanks to you all, your replies exceeded my expectations! I'll let you all know if this takes shape. Thanks!
-Al
My take from the whole discussion would be to look for one that has already been converted ( assuming it is not a hacked up mess) and take advantage of the reduction in sales value and work already done.
Well, you generated a huge exchange. And you realize that it's not an economic proposition, in spite of the initial post theme. This is a great opportunity to do some fairly extensive design work, including developing the conceptual details of how you will utilize electric propulsion. Once you have a solid grip on expectations/demands, you can start fleshing it out and see where it goes. It will be a great adventure and a wonderful learning experience, if your pockets are deep enough and/or you have the chops to pull it off. I say, get after it and post progress pics often!
I would just pile on to what others have said and you are apparently realizing. If you do this, plan on keeping and enjoying the boat for many years with EP. Don't even consider resale. There is no better reason to do a project than "I can, and I want to". Just my opinion.
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
As much as we LOVE electric, and as you mentioned - love living completely independent of external sources of energy at home - our sailboat has a 130HP diesel, a 50A 220V generator, and can carry 500+ gallons of diesel. However, since we dumped our 120V fridge in favor of a 12V SeaFrost unit, we haven’t started the generator in 2 years. We SOLAR power!
Now, if I could just trade that big diesel for twin electric Azipods!