East or South to St. Thomas from the Chesapeake
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Jim...
One option, yet to be mentioned, is joining the Salty Dawg Rally. One advantage is the pre-departure support and another is being with a group and the security of knowing others are near by if something goes awry.
The furthest offshore I've sailed is 100 miles for a couple of days. It is an eerie feeling knowing there are no boats in sight, none on the radar, the AIS screen is empty, and it is about 20 hours of sailing to reach land. It was also one of most memorable and enjoyable part of our journey south.
The furthest offshore I've sailed is 100 miles for a couple of days. It is an eerie feeling knowing there are no boats in sight, none on the radar, the AIS screen is empty, and it is about 20 hours of sailing to reach land. It was also one of most memorable and enjoyable part of our journey south.
I second the Salty Dawg Rally. Great way to begin.
I took a seminar a couple years ago where the presenter showed the North Atlantic with a 200 mile line around all the land masses, North American, Greenland, Iceland, the Azores, Europe etc. He asked if we noticed how much ocean there was beyond those lines. Lot's of ocean.
He then said, anywhere beyond that 200 mile limit, if you have a problem, the fastest you can hope to get help is at least 48 hours away. Often more.
He then went on to talk about how it's like going out into the wilderness except in the wilderness you can find wood, berries, lots of things that can help you. But out in the ocean you don't have anything like that. The ocean is an environment that does not support human life.
It is a different level.
dj
All, your input with things to consider, places that I could stop, and a deeper dive into my planning and preparation were exactly what I was looking for from you. It is one thing to keep turning things over in your head, and quite another to bring other opinions into the mix. At least for now, I am still trying to set my sight on taking the Eastern Route - I65 - to St. Thomas (St. Thomas picked because of it's waters, proximity to incredible Carribean islands closeby, American healthcare and laws, extensive refitting capabilities as a major industrial hub in the Carribean, and it's ease to fly into and out of should the need arise) when the outfitting of my boat is complete (I am already a year in, and project I will need two more seasons before I am ready), but I am now more open to including a Plan B. A couple of things shared in this forum truly resonated with me in my personal sailing challenge, that I am now adding to my list to learn or consider:
Learning LuckGRIB in using it to create a more complete and safe float plan
Push myself now while still outfitting Water Dancer to get more night expereince than just a few hours out in familiar waters, by getting in a couple of 48 hour and 72 hour continuous sails
Consider, or use as a fallback, sailing to the Bahamas (something that I had not seriously considered previously, that could be used as an educational stepping stone for me in my ocean-going development)
Thank you all...
Paul
Learning LuckGRIB in using it to create a more complete and safe float plan
Push myself now while still outfitting Water Dancer to get more night expereince than just a few hours out in familiar waters, by getting in a couple of 48 hour and 72 hour continuous sails
Consider, or use as a fallback, sailing to the Bahamas (something that I had not seriously considered previously, that could be used as an educational stepping stone for me in my ocean-going development)
Thank you all...
Paul
As this is your first trip, I would look at the Caribbean Rally. They leave Hampton, VA the first of November. As it is a rally race, the majority of sailors are in cruising boats and keep in touch on a daily basis.
Have not completed all the replies, but I know that both of the sail schools in Rock Hall have at times moved their vessels to the Caribbean for the sail schools in the American Virgin Islands. I would check with them and possibly even form a flotilla with them to make the trip.
Absolutely try out nighttime and offshore for at least a couple of days, a week would really give you the feel. Weather is only predictable a few days out, then you are on your own. 3 crew is good. The Bahamas would be my reco for a first trip. Take your time. Enjoy some stops and beautiful places and water. I dislike the ICW as it is constant hand steering, engine and traffic noise, not fun at night, especially trying to find a place to anchor in some areas, and burning fuel. But the ocean should be given a trial run before committing to something so totally “on your own.”
By way of introduction, I am a delivery skipper with nearly 500,000 miles logged as well as an educator of sailors wanting to head offshore. So I think my advice has some credence.
Reading some of the excellent replies you’ve received and your plans, ie three crew aboard, I would say you’re on the right track. However…monitor Predict Wind; you’re not going find the doldrums due east. The Horse Latitudes lie along 25* N generally. For the trip form the east coast—which I have sailed more times than I can remember—your waypoint should be 25*N x 65*W. That will set you up for a nice reach across often boisterous trade winds that blow from NE to SE.
Do not go outside Cape Hatteras. Even on much larger boats, with professional crew, I will usually take the ICW to Beaufort, NC and wait for a weather window there. For you, that might be a week or two. Be patient, nothing gets sailors into trouble like a schedule.
You can continue south in the ICW or shortish offshore jumps until you get to Florida and leave from there, you just have to wait for a cold front to approach and leave when the wind turns SW. that should get you across the Stream before it goes east. But don’t get south of 25*N until you get to 65*W, even if it means tacking.
Don’t overestimate how fast you’ll go. I would estimate 100 mile days on an IP32, often less. You may be able to regularly do 6 knots, but you’ll be very lucky to average that over 24hours.
Precook meals so you can just heat them up as needed.
Start taking seasick meds at least three days before departure and keep taking them. You may have never got seasick before but why take a chance…and take it from me, it’s a miserable experience!
Have your engine and refrigeration serviced before you go and make sure you have the recommended spares. Change engine belts and impeller and fuel filters. Make sure you have adequate tools aboard.
Make your bunks as comfy as possible; sheets and blankets no sleeping bags.
Read my “advice to an offshore first timer” in Cruising World. You’ll find many good articles on the subject there, including more from me, but look for Don Street’s, too.
Start studying the weather and learn how to use weather maps. Watch for patterns in the winds so you can figure out weather windows when the time comes.
Reading some of the excellent replies you’ve received and your plans, ie three crew aboard, I would say you’re on the right track. However…monitor Predict Wind; you’re not going find the doldrums due east. The Horse Latitudes lie along 25* N generally. For the trip form the east coast—which I have sailed more times than I can remember—your waypoint should be 25*N x 65*W. That will set you up for a nice reach across often boisterous trade winds that blow from NE to SE.
Do not go outside Cape Hatteras. Even on much larger boats, with professional crew, I will usually take the ICW to Beaufort, NC and wait for a weather window there. For you, that might be a week or two. Be patient, nothing gets sailors into trouble like a schedule.
You can continue south in the ICW or shortish offshore jumps until you get to Florida and leave from there, you just have to wait for a cold front to approach and leave when the wind turns SW. that should get you across the Stream before it goes east. But don’t get south of 25*N until you get to 65*W, even if it means tacking.
Don’t overestimate how fast you’ll go. I would estimate 100 mile days on an IP32, often less. You may be able to regularly do 6 knots, but you’ll be very lucky to average that over 24hours.
Precook meals so you can just heat them up as needed.
Start taking seasick meds at least three days before departure and keep taking them. You may have never got seasick before but why take a chance…and take it from me, it’s a miserable experience!
Have your engine and refrigeration serviced before you go and make sure you have the recommended spares. Change engine belts and impeller and fuel filters. Make sure you have adequate tools aboard.
Make your bunks as comfy as possible; sheets and blankets no sleeping bags.
Read my “advice to an offshore first timer” in Cruising World. You’ll find many good articles on the subject there, including more from me, but look for Don Street’s, too.
Start studying the weather and learn how to use weather maps. Watch for patterns in the winds so you can figure out weather windows when the time comes.
Andrew,
Thank you for the information shared. Your insights and advice will be heeded in putting together my floatplan. One thing that has not come up in any of the replies so far is the addition of radar. For what I am planning do you think it is an absolute, a luxury, or somewhere in between?
Thank you for the information shared. Your insights and advice will be heeded in putting together my floatplan. One thing that has not come up in any of the replies so far is the addition of radar. For what I am planning do you think it is an absolute, a luxury, or somewhere in between?
Honestly, in your situation, I’d go for AIS before radar. Radar is much more complicated to use and easy to misinterpret. I have an and use both on my own boat but I’ve spent a lot of time learning to equate what I see with what the radar shows. I would say it’s a luxury for you as you will be sailing in mostly clear weather and radar is virtually useless in the rain.
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To a large extent it depends on the route you choose and your distance from shore for a good portion of the trip and if you plan to sail at night in the shipping lanes. If you are way way off shore, AIS (transmit and receive) may be the best choice but still has some limitations. The other vessel has to have AIS too, which is true for commercial shipping vessels you will encounter when well off shore. If his bridge is manned (yea, its supposed to be but reality sometimes shows they are not.) There may be a few "recreational boaters" like you but they may have prepared themselves well and have AIS and/or radars
If you choose to do the "near shore" route, say 50 miles or so (maybe more), which will still require sailing at night, the modern radars with "guard zones" ability to detect and track multiple "targets" etc. may be very worthwhile. Hard to say if its more useful than AIS but it does require more experience on interpretation and setup of zones, targets, etc. Within a certain distance from shore you may encounter "fast moving" power boats like offshore charter and recreational fishing boats that don't have AIS so AIS will be useless for them. I'm not a power boat offshore fisherman so I really don't know what equipment they have but I would imagine many don't have AIS. If less than 25 miles offshore, you WILL, not MAY encounter some fast moving "near reckless" power boaters that will scare the peedoodle out of you and will not have AIS. At night in that range off shore I keep a strong wide beam flashlight handy and Illuminate my sails if I have any question that see me or even know how to interpret COLREGS and navigation lights. I've detected them on my radar and been able to track them as targets and set guard zones.
If you are doing an organized "flotilla" like the Salty Dog it may change the equation and those that have done it can advise you better. With what you describe as your experience level a flotilla approach, or a near shore passage (50 miles or less off shore where you can dodge in if necessary) would be my choice. @Andrew Burton has some good advice and perspective, especially around Cape Hatteras. Also be sure to check your insurance, mine as a limit of 75 miles offshore without an additional rider. If you're going to take the near shore path and go the ICW to Beaufort NC, you might as well take the near shore trip and enjoy the trip with an occasional jump to an interesting port. What is your hurry?
Your boat, your choice but I wouldn't skimp on safety equipment. By the way, if way off shore you will need a "boat load of safety equipment" if you are going it as a boat not part of a flotilla.
If you choose to do the "near shore" route, say 50 miles or so (maybe more), which will still require sailing at night, the modern radars with "guard zones" ability to detect and track multiple "targets" etc. may be very worthwhile. Hard to say if its more useful than AIS but it does require more experience on interpretation and setup of zones, targets, etc. Within a certain distance from shore you may encounter "fast moving" power boats like offshore charter and recreational fishing boats that don't have AIS so AIS will be useless for them. I'm not a power boat offshore fisherman so I really don't know what equipment they have but I would imagine many don't have AIS. If less than 25 miles offshore, you WILL, not MAY encounter some fast moving "near reckless" power boaters that will scare the peedoodle out of you and will not have AIS. At night in that range off shore I keep a strong wide beam flashlight handy and Illuminate my sails if I have any question that see me or even know how to interpret COLREGS and navigation lights. I've detected them on my radar and been able to track them as targets and set guard zones.
If you are doing an organized "flotilla" like the Salty Dog it may change the equation and those that have done it can advise you better. With what you describe as your experience level a flotilla approach, or a near shore passage (50 miles or less off shore where you can dodge in if necessary) would be my choice. @Andrew Burton has some good advice and perspective, especially around Cape Hatteras. Also be sure to check your insurance, mine as a limit of 75 miles offshore without an additional rider. If you're going to take the near shore path and go the ICW to Beaufort NC, you might as well take the near shore trip and enjoy the trip with an occasional jump to an interesting port. What is your hurry?
Your boat, your choice but I wouldn't skimp on safety equipment. By the way, if way off shore you will need a "boat load of safety equipment" if you are going it as a boat not part of a flotilla.
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Absolutely get AIS, the new B+ standard is much more effective because it transmits at 5 watts instead of 2 and the data is sent in a more effective way, the explanation of which I will defer to the more tech savvy among us.
A receive only AIS is basically an amusement. It will tell you where other boats are, but won't tell other boats where you are. You want to see and be seen.
I would avoid the combined VHF and AIS radios as they provide a single point of failure for 2 important components.
Radar is nice, but not as essential as AIS. Not every boat out there has AIS and radar can see those. Fishing boats are notorious for not using AIS to keep their fishing spots secret. Radar can see them. Radar is also handy for tracking squalls and rain. As @Andrew Burton points out, it takes more skill to read a radar screen than an AIS screen.
Edit: The place I have found Radar most useful is in crowded or small anchorages. The radar will give accurate distance measurements between the boat and shore or other boats.
You guys are awesome, and a wealth of knowledge, thank you! My take on your replies concerning radar is that it is a luxury, more than a necessary, but that I better have AIS with GPS interface and backup for this planned run, which I have now decided will be ICW/Coastal to FL on my first Carribean jump. I will use this trip as my "learning curve" for bigger advantures. On your safety equipment comment, gotcha. I just completed the Safety at Sea course, and even with careful preparation on my part so far, I learned that I still had some holes in my planning. Working on filling those now.
Another question that I have is on survival rafts. I am planning on purchasing a 4 man, but my question is go coastal or bluewater design? I ask as if I am planning on running coastal to FL and then skipping across going island to island, does it make sense to go for a higher-end bluewater design when you are never more than 100 miles or so from land? Not that I am trying to be cheap on saving the lives of myself or crew, but I also recognise that this decision involves a delacate balance of preparation, safety, use, and cost. Do you have any recommendations for me?
Another question that I have is on survival rafts. I am planning on purchasing a 4 man, but my question is go coastal or bluewater design? I ask as if I am planning on running coastal to FL and then skipping across going island to island, does it make sense to go for a higher-end bluewater design when you are never more than 100 miles or so from land? Not that I am trying to be cheap on saving the lives of myself or crew, but I also recognise that this decision involves a delacate balance of preparation, safety, use, and cost. Do you have any recommendations for me?
The question is not how far from land, it is how far from a rescue source, i.e., a helicopter. If your plans include longer journey's later, then opting for a the offshore version might be the better choice. The 2 main differences between coastal and offshore versions is a double floor on the offshore version and supplies for a longer rescue time than a coastal raft.
Talk to Sean at Liferaft and Survival Equipment in RI. He will steer you right. I found an offshore raft in a canister was not much more than a coastal raft. I think mine is a Revere “Regatta” model.