Dutchman or Lazy Jacks

Tom Spohn · Oct 8, 2009

My boat came with the Dutchman which I thought was OK. I did manage to forget to loosen the topping lift a few times while raising the sail which was a minor problem as is not remembering to tighten it when lowering the sail. It does contain the sail nicely on the boom and it is Practical Sailor's (You can order the reprint) first choice.

I have just put on a new main that is not fitted with the Dutchman and have on order a "Quick Cover" from North which is very similar to the Doyle Stack Pack. I was swung over when sailing on my friend's C&C 115 when his wife dropped the sail into the cover simply by releasing the halyard. My cover will be like my friends Doyle which will have straps sewn into the bottom and velcro straps on the mast near the goose neck so when racing the cover can just be rolled up and the lazy jack portion pulled to the mast and velcroed (is that a word?).

Another factor in my decision is that the boom on my boat, a Schock 35, is failrly low. With the Dutchman the sail drapes over the boom and hangs down either side making it difficult to see when motoring and making it so a bimini under the draping sail will not have much headroom. This is not a deal breaker--it is a race boat after all, but the extra headroom will be appreciated, especially by the Admiral.

DeniseO30 · Oct 8, 2009

lazy jacks are cheap and easy to make yourself even. they work! I set them to be tight with the topping lift when the boom "drops" after releasing the main. When the main is up, the TL and LJs are loose. LJs are one the best things to have if your single handing.

Hermit Scott · Oct 8, 2009

I bought some rings to make lazy jacks at a feed store. They are bronze. I know people usually use stainless. I hope they don't discolor my sail. I was going to buy the SS rings at West but they were $20 each. The bronze rings were $.89 each. As soon as I learn to splice 1/4" rope I will start on them.
Tom- I thought of making a dutchman instead. The video on YouTube shows it neatly falling onto the boom like a chinese fan. But I guess it's not like that in the real world? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8EPkGx3o9Y

timvg · Oct 8, 2009

We have Dutchman and I never need to adjust them. I have them loose enough that they don't affect the sail shape. When we reef, I never leave the cockpit and the dutchman catches the loose sail.

RichH · Oct 8, 2009

Overall the dutchman is probably the 'least bother' to use but requires fiddling with topping lift so the dutchman control lines dont alter the sail shape. The advantage is that you dont always have a hassle as when raising a mainsail with jacks as you invariably catch or foul a batten UNDER them.

EZ-Jax can be arranged so that they can be stored along the boom & mast; and, the stowing can be controlled from the cockpit by the use of 'bungees' ... but that adds yet another clap-trap line from the cockpit to trip over, and more 'crap' disturbing the airflow over the sails, etc. http://ezjax.com/ but you can build your own if you're handy.

Both systems require that you go forward and tie-in the sails when storing... no other way around it with the exception of inmast or inboom furling ... and thats the dead lowest choice if you want any sort of control or performance out of a mainsail.

Guest · Oct 8, 2009

Don't buy from ez jacks

They took my money 2 years ago and have yet to deliver. I'd try jiffy jax instead.

Steve Dion · Oct 8, 2009

Jack, Jax, Lazy, Easy ..... In my opinion they suck! They are always in the way when you try to raise the sail (unless they are retractable). There is nothing better than a properly installed and adjusted Dutchman.

If you decide to go with a Stack Pack or other "pack" system, it may be worth putting up with the short comings of the Jack system.

Just my opinion!

Prime Time · Oct 8, 2009

Bronze

Hermit Scott said:
I bought some rings to make lazy jacks at a feed store. They are bronze. I know people usually use stainless. I hope they don't discolor my sail. I was going to buy the SS rings at West but they were $20 each. The bronze rings were $.89 each. As soon as I learn to splice 1/4" rope I will start on them.
Tom- I thought of making a dutchman instead. The video on YouTube shows it neatly falling onto the boom like a chinese fan. But I guess it's not like that in the real world? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8EPkGx3o9Y

Nothing wrong with bronze. I am not sure it will discolor and bleed onto the sail. If it does, no big deal. Bronze is used in sail making for rings on the clew. Also for hanks on jibs.

fox islander · Oct 8, 2009

dutchman

I recently replaced my dutchman control lines...part of replacing them is to properly adjust them afterwards...what a difference! Flakng now takes maybe 30 seconds.
The adjustment instructions are here:
http://www.mvbinfo.com/dp_03_SF_brochure.html

S/V Sonrisa

Rick D · Oct 8, 2009

Re: Bronze

Being old enough to be from the bronze age... no problem and good choice.

shorty · Oct 9, 2009

Mack Pack

Mack sails version of Stack Pack etc. Put one on 2-3 years ago & love it. Theoretically you can drop sail from cockpit & pull sailcover zipper from cockpit also, but the sail rarely drops in clean enough to not go forward & tuck. Still miles ahead of flopping off the boom.

Chris Burti · Oct 9, 2009

Have had both

I made my own lazy jacks (for our Cal 27-T/2) which were retractable and they had a 'spyder' consisting of a couple of long bungee cords running the length of the boom which I stretched to alternating hooks on each opposite side to eliminate ties. I now have a Dutchman. I have it adjusted properly and I have sewn zippers into the sail cover which eliminate the need to adjust it in use.

Both beat the heck out of having nothing and both work well. I strongly favor the Dutchman as being simpler, more effective and easier to maintain over the long haul, but the initial setup and adjustment is critical to its working as designed.

rpwillia · Oct 9, 2009

What is the proper way?

Am I doing this right? With my dutchman we usually loosen the topping lift when we hoist the main, and many time I will also loosen the dutchman, and then when dropping the main tighten up the topping lift and adjust the dutchman back to where it was. Am I doing twice the work I need to?

Chris Burti · Oct 9, 2009

rpwillia said:
Am I doing this right? With my Dutchman we usually loosen the topping lift when we hoist the main, and many time I will also loosen the Dutchman, and then when dropping the main tighten up the topping lift and adjust the Dutchman back to where it was. Am I doing twice the work I need to?

The topping lift on a C-320 lifts the Dutchman flaking system's adjustment loop and with it, the boom. the topping lift needs to be eased to allow the boom to set properly and to keep the flaking system from chafing the leach of the mainsail.

When the system is set up and adjusted properly, the monofilament control lines are parallel to the mast and to each other when the boom is at right angles to the mast.

The only reasons to move the adjustment loop section of the topping lift after it has ben set properly would be to loosen the monofilament control lines to allow you put your sailcover on if it does not have zippers...or if you are sailing with my Admiral, to attach flags she orders flown. I've eliminated the former issue by sewing zippers in our sailcover (it is an amazing improvement) and I have marked the loop with a Sharpie to allow for no-brainer adjustment in the latter instance.

Hermit Scott · Oct 9, 2009

Guest said:
They took my money 2 years ago and have yet to deliver. I'd try jiffy jax instead.

Did you mail them cash? How did you pay? I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it looks as if you were careless with payment or lazy in recovering your money.

rpwillia · Oct 10, 2009

Chris, Thanks

Chris Burti said:
The only reasons to move the adjustment loop section of the topping lift after it has ben set properly would be to loosen the monofilament control lines to allow you put your sailcover on if it does not have zippers...

I do not have zippers in so I am always moving the control loop for slack in the lines to put the cover on. At least I am doing it right.

nick8489 · Oct 12, 2009

Modifying Lazy Jacks

Steve Dion said:
Jack, Jax, Lazy, Easy ..... In my opinion they suck! They are always in the way when you try to raise the sail (unless they are retractable). There is nothing better than a properly installed and adjusted Dutchman.
quote]

I had this problem rasiing the sail on my Hunter H33 but solved it by attaching shock cord from the lazyjacks to the extremities of the lower spreaders thus widening the 'gap' to about 1m. I have had no problems with batten catching since then. I was concerned about the degree of stretch in the shock cord when the boom was out on a run but no problem, it doesnot need to stretch as much as you would imagine particularly on the Hunter rig.

Steve Dion · Oct 12, 2009

Nick: I have a little problem with this on my Hunter Vision 36! NO SPREADERS!

I need to monkey around with something over the next few months to see if I can come up with a "better sail trap".

Hopefully your comment will motivate me to do something other than complain about them.

zeehag · Oct 13, 2009

i plan on having lazy jacks on my formosa 41 main.....boom is about 20 ft in length.....learned on a boat with them---have sailed boats withou t them---i want them on mine---make better ability to see ahead when dropping sail and donot have to go forward in a storm when lowering sail......

Dutchman or Lazy Jacks

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