dual 6 volt batteries

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Actually GC2 / T105 size golf cart batteries are closer in foot print to a group 24 than a 27.

GC2 / T105 = 10 3/8" Long by 7 1/8" Wide by 10 7/8" Tall
Group 24 = 10 3/4" Long by 6 13/16" Wide by 8 11/16" Tall
Group 27 = 12 9/16" Long by 6 13/16" Wide by 8 3/4" Tall

If we compare the Deka / Duracell brand from Sam's Club

EGC2 6V = 230Ah for 2 batteries
Deep Cycle 24 12V = 150Ah for 2 batteries

The 6V batteries have 80Ah more for two, or nearly an entire group 24 battery...
Thanks. I didn't word that very well. We have 27's and since the GC2/T105 are not as long and are only about 5/16" wider if you had a 27 then you probably could get one of the 6 volts in the same place, at least we can.

Do you have any idea how much the Sam's Club are going for now? We dropped our membership and I'm trying to figure out if getting a new membership would be more than getting the batteries from another source?

Thanks,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
I had group 27 plastic battery box's already mounted in my boat when I switched to the 6 volt golf cart batteries and the 6 volt fit ok but since they are taller, the plastic lid no longer "fits". However, the strap still works and holds the battery in place using the plastic lid.

I bought mine at Sams - my membership also long since expired...
 
Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
Have you ever had the fridge checked for refrigerant level? I have this kinda startup issue, too.
I haven't had it checked. It's brand new. I hope I don't need to.
It starts up fine on 110 AC, so I don't think it's that.
 
Jun 3, 2004
1,863
Macgregor 25 So. Cal.
My question is, where is the back up if the single 12v systen is made up of two 6v batteries.

I have been on old big boats that had three banks of two each d-8 six volt batteries and they still had 12v starter battery.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
My question is, where is the back up if the single 12v systen is made up of two 6v batteries.

I have been on old big boats that had three banks of two each d-8 six volt batteries and they still had 12v starter battery.
Where is the back up on the many boats that have one single 12V battery.. ? Also many of the trailer sailed boats have a pull start. Beyond that we sailed for many years when I was a kid with no batteries on-board just a pull start and some D battery operated nav lights or brass lanterns for an anchor light.... :)
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
cell phone - internal battery
hand held VHF with internal battery
Spot beam with internal battery
Hand held GPS with internal battery
head lamps with internal batteries.

I have an AA and AAA battery charger on the boat.

I remember the good old days when I always had to pull start the 8 hp outboard. I "suppose" I could do that again... (i.e., no problem at all).

My single 12 volt battery (composed of two six volt batteries) is on a battery monitor so I always have a good idea of its state. I think there is no issue at all only with a single 12 volt main battery.

The electric fridge... hmmm... is there a safety risk from warm beer?
 
Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Been a couple of weeks since I was in a Sam's club. Batteries are GC2 are running $74-78. CRS here....
 
Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
cell phone - internal battery
hand held VHF with internal battery
Spot beam with internal battery
Hand held GPS with internal battery
head lamps with internal batteries.

I have an AA and AAA battery charger on the boat.

I remember the good old days when I always had to pull start the 8 hp outboard. I "suppose" I could do that again... (i.e., no problem at all).

My single 12 volt battery (composed of two six volt batteries) is on a battery monitor so I always have a good idea of its state. I think there is no issue at all only with a single 12 volt main battery.

The electric fridge... hmmm... is there a safety risk from warm beer?
yea that's beer abuse. It's a serious crime down here. Heck, you might even get in trouble for just having left overs after getting off the water!
 
Apr 30, 2006
610
Macgregor 26s Kemah, TX
A bump box is a great backup - those handheld jumper/compressor units with internal sla battery and which have 12v and usb outlets. I take the one I have in the car when I go on the boat.
But I agree that an engine with a pull start and an alternator is probably all I'll need for a backup.
 
Jan 11, 2012
44
Ontario Yachts 38 4 Trent Port
For all these discussions of battery durability, one also has to take quality into account. Many of the low cost deep cycle models are simply renamed car batteries with slight differences.

Quality deep cycle batteries have much heavier plates. Silhouette came with a couple of Surrette deep cycle batteries that were 11 years old before they gave it up. They are ridiculously expensive so we replaced with Trojan Deep Cycle 12 V Group 24s. Time will tell. Previous experience with low end deep cycle batteries is 2 - 4 years.
 
Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
There's been boats in my family all my life, up to 18 ft. and until I got the Mac, I never even thought about having an "extra" battery!
Some of the bigger motors even had the flywheel made for an emergency pull rope. What a joke. Good thing we never needed to try it.
The boat I have now, didn't have a battery when i bought it. The PO never kept a permanent battery on board, but brought one of those jump start boosters just in case he needed to use the radio.
Since I bought the boat I keep adding stuff and my electrical needs keep getting bigger. Maybe it's time to slow down?
OK, the fridge is the last one. no more household comforts after that.
 
Dec 17, 2008
11
MacGregor 26M Québec City
I have 2 12volt batteries with shore power and all the standard fixings that come with it. Cost 500$ to install and 2 new batteries. I also have a battery switch. I use battery 1 and 2 on alternate days and the one time I managed to discharge one completely , I just switched to the other battery which was fully charged. I park my boat besides the house in winter and plug it in. My batteries are always charged in winter and in summer they maintain themselves well wether on a mooring or on marina power. This year I will install a battery meter on each battery. My 2 cents worth.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
.. I also have a battery switch. I use battery 1 and 2 on alternate days..
The batteries will last longer and charge better if you put the switch on both and just leave it there. That is if the two batteries are about the same age and voltage at this point.

I did what you are doing at first, but Walt through his posts showed that keeping them in parallel and using them at the same time was a better deal. He has an electrical engineering degree and I'm an engineering school dropout :redface:, so his logic wins ;),

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Some details... (I know Sumner already knows this - but Ill repeat it anyhow)

The advice for paralleling the two batteries regarded charging using Sumner's high amp generator (capable of something like 50 amps). In this case, the generator was able to put out much higher current than the single battery / regulator acceptance would allow to be input to the battery. I.e., even though the generator was able to produce about 50 amps, the acceptance of the single battery was limiting charging to something like 20 amps. But if the batteries were charged in parallel, the current from the generator would be maybe 40 amps, ie twice - and the generator could be run for a shorter amount of time. The charging in parallel is mostly important if your charge capability is in excess of a single battery acceptance and you want to minimize how long the charger/generator is running. If your charge capablity is much under the battery acceptance, charging in parellel wouldnt add any value.

Also, when you’re running something like a fridge, it’s a large daily power drain. I think if you have a fridge, running it off a larger battery would result in smaller cycle percentage which I think is easier on the battery. So... I think in the case of the fridge, also running the 12 volt batteries in parallel would make them last longer. I think Sumner also said he generally turned the fridge off at night which sounds like a good idea if your getting the power from solar - easier on the batteires.

In my case, I don’t have a fridge but wanted the extra power capacity and I think its fine for others to put in dual battery switch - but I did not want one of these - I think to some extent, adding the switch makes it more likely that you will need it for a backup battery. So I had my 12 volt batteries in parallel and these were kept charged all the time either with solar or a plugged in AC charger. When I would check the water in the batteries, one battery would always use way more water than the other (there is a theory why this happens).

So really, the only reason I went to two six volt batteries is to get rid of this problem where one battery would use a lot more water than the other. After two years with the golf cart batteries, this problem does seem to be gone.
 
Dec 17, 2008
11
MacGregor 26M Québec City
The batteries will last longer and charge better if you put the switch on both and just leave it there. That is if the two batteries are about the same age and voltage at this point.

I did what you are doing at first, but Walt through his posts showed that keeping them in parallel and using them at the same time was a better deal. He has an electrical engineering degree and I'm an engineering school dropout :redface:, so his logic wins ;),
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/macgregor-links-1.html
I have had the same batteries for 5 years and have no engineering knowledge so these conversations interest me. My batteries seem to be working as well now as they did when they were new. I plan on replacing my batteries at the same time so that they are the same age, but I was under the impression that they should last for at least 10 years before replacement. I guess I will just use them in parallel now and keep a battery booster on board in case of emergency.
Q1
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
... I guess I will just use them in parallel now and keep a battery booster on board in case of emergency.
Q1
That is what I would do if I had and X or M and didn't have an outboard that I could easily pull start. You probably also have an alternator that puts out more than what our little outboards put out so it will even benefit you more. I think 10 years would really be pushing it. If you are at 5 now I feel that is even doing good in my estimation considering the environment they are in.

Let us know when they do finally give up,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
I went back to the boat yesterday and did a little snooping around.
The fridge was running on AC. It showed about 33 F. so it was near shutting down, but was still running. I plugged in the 12 volt, then unplugged the 120. It shut down just like I thought it would. This time, instead of trying to get it to start, I just waited. Well it took maybe 3-4 minutes and it started up on its own.
I feel better about that now. I guess it just takes a few minutes for it to make the switch over??
Amp draw still went to 7 or 8, and volts dropped to 11.8 from (I forgot. 12.8 maybe). I pulled the plug and found the end was hot enough to burn if I kept touching, so I cut the 12 socket plug off and attached a 3 ft #10 extension, and wired it direct to the battery.
That made it bypass my amp meter but, voltage drop seemed to be a little less.
Next I took the smaller/older battery out of the circuit. By then the resting voltage was already down to about 12.2, BUT, the loaded voltage only dropped to 11.8 with the fridge running.
I figure that with only the newer battery running, my voltage drop was only .4 volts with a 7-8 amp load.
I switched back to AC power and left the old battery out so today I get to see how high the good one will get without the old one dragging it down.
Hopefully the voltage will be slightly higher, and the amp draw will be slightly less. (crossing fingers)
Jim
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
...I feel better about that now. I guess it just takes a few minutes for it to make the switch over??...
Never changed back and forth, so don't know about the delay thing.

I hope you second 'good' battery is still really good. If it was in the 12's I don't think it should of been pulled down into the 11's with the frig if it is ok. Are the panels also hooked up? Was a 110 charger hooked up?

I think I'd have the 110 hooked up to only the good battery and then see the amp pull using the good battery only.

We are going to have to replace 4 six volt batteries on the Endeavour :cry:. I'm just guess as I didn't have time to really trouble shoot if, but think that maybe 1 or 2 of them had a dead cell or something and took out the other ones. I tried to charge them, but they just wouldn't hold a charge at all. Much like what you are describing. I won't keep the new ones connected until I can make sure something else isn't draining them.

The previous owner had the boat slipped and on shore power and just day sailed it the last few years, so I think the shore power hid whatever problem there is,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
 
Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
Never changed back and forth, so don't know about the delay thing.

I hope you second 'good' battery is still really good. If it was in the 12's I don't think it should of been pulled down into the 11's with the frig if it is ok. Are the panels also hooked up? Was a 110 charger hooked up?

I think I'd have the 110 hooked up to only the good battery and then see the amp pull using the good battery only.

We are going to have to replace 4 six volt batteries on the Endeavour :cry:. I'm just guess as I didn't have time to really trouble shoot if, but think that maybe 1 or 2 of them had a dead cell or something and took out the other ones. I tried to charge them, but they just wouldn't hold a charge at all. Much like what you are describing. I won't keep the new ones connected until I can make sure something else isn't draining them.

The previous owner had the boat slipped and on shore power and just day sailed it the last few years, so I think the shore power hid whatever problem there is,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
By the time I tried the newer battery by itself the voltage had already been pulled down to 12.2.
I had the solar panel covered up, so that was neutral.
no other circuits were live.
I haven't ever charged that battery by itself, so I don't know where it will top out at. I should be able to see tonight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.