Downside of 3-Stage "Portable" Charger?

wetass · Sep 15, 2011

The 30 amp from west marine has the added advantage of having the ability to equalize batteries, so thats good. The bad is that you really can't leave it unattended since it connects to your batteries with clamps. If thats all you really need, I suppose it can't hurt. I have one so I can equalize my batteries and also use it for my car batteries. If its price driving this though, the IOTA 30 amp charger is a good deal since its about the same price (maybe $50 more) and really made to be left unattended.

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2011

Well, first, it's good that you haven't used your old charger, since it'll eat your batteries alive! Second, the reviews on this unit are pretty well mixed, to say the least, and even Chuck Hawley's comments include: "If it breaks, bring it back for a return."

It appears that this is a closeout, so if it does break, they aren't gonna be able to give you a new one. The failures reported in the reviews seem catastrophic and unrepairable, just replacement units.

I'd not potentially waste $$ on this puppy, but rather go the Iota route.

If you've read by "Gotcha Algorithm" topic, and I'm sure you have somewhere along the way, you'll find that so far you're doing the right thing with your solar panel to keep your house bank charged to 100% and not leave them sit undercharged. That's good.

If you're going to spend $$ on a charger, I recommend a "real" one, rather than perhaps being pound wise and penny foolish.

You might also want to consider true deep cycle, rather than dual purpose, for your next battery replacement.

Steve Walsh · Sep 16, 2011

Somehow I didn't get the memo, so I have to ask, what is the reason for not leaving a battery charger with clamps unattended? Sounds like I am lucky that I have not burned down or blown up my neighborhood, cars, boats, riding lawnmower, marina, etc., over the past 30+ years. Maybe the difference is that I don't leave them on indefinitely, just a few hours or overnight.

tkanzler · Sep 16, 2011

Stu Jackson said:
If you're going to spend $$ on a charger, I recommend a "real" one, rather than perhaps being pound wise and penny foolish.

Which leads me to ask, what's the current wisdom on real marine chargers for two-battery systems, especially those that won't break the bank?

Steve Dion · Sep 16, 2011

We have a Xantrex XC3012 charger. It allows for each battery bank to have different battery chemistries. It has worked well for our needs. We have had this charger for about 5 years.

On our prior boat we had one of the Xantrex/Statpower units which also worked well. It is still working about about 10-12 years.

sailcruiser · Sep 16, 2011

tkanzler said:
Which leads me to ask, what's the current wisdom on real marine chargers for two-battery systems, especially those that won't break the bank?

I've been searching for this too. It doesn't seem Practical Sailor has addressed this in a while. (hi stu!). Continuing my research from our battery thread a few days ago. I will have two banks and plan an echo charger at this point. SC

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2011

Steve Walsh said:
Somehow I didn't get the memo, so I have to ask, what is the reason for not leaving a battery charger with clamps unattended? Sounds like I am lucky that I have not burned down or blown up my neighborhood, cars, boats, riding lawnmower, marina, etc., over the past 30+ years. Maybe the difference is that I don't leave them on indefinitely, just a few hours or overnight.

Steve, I think you answered your own question. You don't leave it unattended overnight. The clamps could fall off.

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2011

sailcruiser said:
I've been searching for this too. It doesn't seem Practical Sailor has addressed this in a while. (hi stu!). Continuing my research from our battery thread a few days ago. I will have two banks and plan an echo charger at this point. SC

Hi, sc.

After our previous discussions, you don't need a multiple output charger if you use the echo charge. Just connect one output to your house bank and let the ec do its thing, just like when your'e charging with the alternator when unpluged from the dock. Simple. Just check with the manufacturer of your charger that it will put out the rated amperage through one of its multiple outputs if the others aren't connected.

flynfol · Sep 16, 2011

Some things to consider.....Connecting batteries in an enclosed, potentially explosive environment. Many switching type regulators do not provide isolation which may be a shock or corrosion hazard. A monitored equalization charge can increase the life and capacity of a battery. That being said.......I have a linear regulated, heavy (lots of copper...heavy)duty battery charger that will probably out live me. If monitored, it does a fine job, albeit longer charge time. I have also used constant voltage/constant current chargers (aviation-where battery capacity is CRITICAL) that have proven to be extremely reliable, but are not really designed for large capacity batteries. This charger has a timer for constant current mode to equalize batteries and can take 24 hours to charge/equalize a 44 a/h battery. I currently use an Iota 30 amp (external IQ controller) charger for my battery backup sump pump. This charger can also run the pump continuously if my primary pump fails......it has been VERY reliable considering I flogged it mercilessly when charging batteries at my offgrid cabin for many years. I installed the newer version of that Iota charger (IQ onboard) in my boat three years ago, and again very reliable(keep in mind it is a trailer sailor). I purchased the Schumacher ship and shore? 15 amp model, and it worked wonderfully until the logic for the charging algorithm failed.......allowing voltages above 16.5 VDC(smelled some hydrogen sulfide on that one). It was $30 on sale. You get what you pay for. So keep in mind your intended use, and the potentially negative outcomes.

sailcruiser · Sep 16, 2011

Stu Jackson said:
Hi, sc.

After our previous discussions, you don't need a multiple output charger if you use the echo charge. Just connect one output to your house bank and let the ec do its thing, just like when your'e charging with the alternator when unpluged from the dock. Simple. Just check with the manufacturer of your charger that it will put out the rated amperage through one of its multiple outputs if the others aren't connected.

Hi Stu, I like simple. I haven't bought anything yet. I was joining the OP looking for current wisdom. (this brand regularly fails, this brand gives option of two battery types, this brand over/under charges, this has equalization etc). I couldn't find much current information. Practical Sailor's last write up was the late 90s.(that I found directly on this topic) I need to sit down more with Google but decided to follow this thread too. I'm in sponge mode with my book and forums.

. SC

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2011

Uh, I'd stay away from ProMariner and Schumaker chargers. The ProMariner Flybacks were notorious for burning boats up, so just 'cuz they have a newer model doesn't give me much more confidence in the brand.

Why not just suck it up and get a good charger, as recommended? I know, it's always $$, but since you don't use it that often, then save your pennies quickly or wait til Santa comes around.

Really, buying a POS is a real waste of your $$.

Stu

sailcruiser · Sep 16, 2011

rardiH36 said:
Thanks the responses. As always, this forum promotes alternative thinking.

Clamp-on and the possibly suspect dependability of the on-sale WM charger does lead me to consider anew.

I've subsequently found that a "Promariner Protechi 1230 Plus 4- stage 12v 30 Amp 3 Bank On-Board Charger" seems to be on offer at various locations for a very good price. (The model is out of stock in the sailboatowners.com store)

Perhaps this series is being phased out. But it is still light years beyond my current set-up. Anybody have experience with ProMariner chargers?

http://www.promariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=63331

This unit would be very convenient for me to install. Essentially, I would just remove my 30 year old NewPro 20 from the bulkhead and replace it with the new charger. I could just reconnect the existing AC and the existing wires to each of the batteries. (The wires are quite heavy gauge and look to be in OK condition.) Also, I do have a third emergency back-up battery on board which I try to remember to top-up every couple of weeks. This charger would eliminate the top-up concern.

I have this identical charger and will probably not go with another of this brand just base on everything I've read. It's a little more work and less sailing but I tend to try to do things well enough that they won't need much attention for a bit. (attention from my wallet) In another thread I copied this comment from Maine Sail
"Mastervolt, Victron or Iota charger is a good place to start.". So that is where I will start. He's been at this a lot longer than me and gets to learn from others mistakes. I am combining this with a Nigel Calder book to get the right balance for our usage. I think this electrical stuff s a bit of an art that varies by people and boat.
Good luck! SC

sailcruiser · Sep 16, 2011

sailcruiser said:
I have this identical charger and will probably not go with another of this brand just base on everything I've read. It's a little more work and less sailing but I tend to try to do things well enough that they won't need much attention for a bit. (attention from my wallet) In another thread I copied this comment from Maine Sail
"Mastervolt, Victron or Iota charger is a good place to start.". So that is where I will start. He's been at this a lot longer than me and gets to learn from others mistakes. I am combining this with a Nigel Calder book to get the right balance for our usage. I think this electrical stuff s a bit of an art that varies by people and boat.
Good luck! SC

I should clarify I have the identical of your EXISTING charger ProMariner New Pro 20. Sorry for confusion!

Clark · Sep 16, 2011

I'm with Stu on the Promariner. I had one that only lasted 2 years. I now have a Xantrex.

sailcruiser · Sep 16, 2011

rardiH36 said:
Hi Stu:

Yes, that's the reason for my post. I am listening and learning before I probably will go with one of the recommended systems. I won't do anything rash.

It's just that I (and I expect many others) just can't determine from the specs and brand a good reliable charger vs a POS one. If a charger is by a long standing brand name, and the original list price before a sale was right up there with chargers like Xantrex, sure its bound to get my notice. Although the ProMariner Protech i-series 1230 that I cited on my previous post is out of stock on the Sailboatowners.com store, they do list it for $571 "retail" and $390 "your price". Not small change and implies some degree of quality? The same model currently is being offered at other various sellers for about $160. On the face of it, that's a lot of technology and charger for the money. Now the big mark down could be because it's problem charger that ProMariner just couldn't move ... or its a basically functional charger that somehow became a overstock item when ProMariner moved to their current generation of chargers.

Its not actually the raw dollars of a "x" vs "y" charger purchase, but I've always tended to buy a Ford (or more lately a Prius) rather than a Mercedes. Despite the price differences, both can get across town without breaking down or catching on fire! Information about car safety and reliability between brands is plentiful, so we can make pretty informed decisions how much to pay for what we require. More difficult to compare battery charging brands and specs for sailboats! Other than through forums like this, seems there is not much else is out there for objective comparison or warnings about problem equipment.

Maybe we should write practical sailor to update themselves. I've had the same problem. I've been eavesdropping on other charging topic and found that tidbit from MS. SC

Stu Jackson · Sep 16, 2011

rardi, you're right. That's what's so cool about this particular forum. If I mess up, Maine Sail will be sure to catch it!

There's this: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4352.0.html Check the dates. Not sure if you hang on our C34 board, give it a try if you don't. All are welcome.

Save your Santa-points for a good one. You won't regret it in the long run. Shop wisely, make your choice(s) and we'll all be glad to watch you report on what a great deal you got!

Blow the spec comparison, doesn't work. Ask questions. Xantrex has a recent rash of issues with the algorithms for their cooling fans. I wouldn't go there. Try this: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com and search on Victron. Iota is also highly recommended. Prices seem a lot less than what you've mentioned.

Good luck, happy hunting.

Stu

PS - I'm a Ford guy, too, but when it comes to your expensive batteries, think of the ROI. And the better ones are less expensive! Geez, who woulda thunk?

Benny17441 · Sep 16, 2011

Clamps are a fire hazard. Before we installed an inboard charger on our trailerable we used a portable charger. We eliminated the clamps and hardwired it to the batteries. The use of a flatwire connector allowed us to remove it or connect it as desired. For added safety when the boat was unattended we placed a fuse on the (+) charger output line.

Downside of 3-Stage "Portable" Charger?

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