dock line splicing vs. bowline?

Dennis W. · Aug 12, 2008

Splice vs. Bowline

A splice is stronger and better looking than a bowline. Rather than paying to have it done why not use the $ to buy the tools, the internet to find the techniques, and some time to do it yourself. Once learned, never forgotten, always useful.

Nik · Aug 12, 2008

Splice your own....

Just splice your own line... It is a good knowlege to have and is not difficult to do in either 3 strand or double braid. I have seen ready made DB splices come apart, an easy fix is to get an awl and some waxed thread and sew then together. As should be done any way. Personally, I'd use 3 strand nylon for the added bit of stretch that it has.

Nik

Ross · Aug 12, 2008

I learned to short splice and eye splice

3 strand rope when I was ten years old. A good Swedish fid with cost you less than 10 bucks and will last longer that you will. Learn to splice. It is easy. Practice on 3/8 or 1/2 inch manila. Then move on to nylon. At this stage tape the three strands before you start to keep them from flling apart. Later you will want to whip them.(it is neater) There are many on line instruction sites. An old friend used to short splice masons twine with a magnifier and a crochet hook.

r.w.landau · Aug 12, 2008

TI doug, just a thought.... If you don't yet know how to splice,

I would just leave all your line with an eye splice and learn to tie knots!
Bowline is easy once learned and will hold for the life of the line. The bowline compromises less than a poorly spliced loop in a line.
Three strand is easy.... double braid is much stronger. Tie your oun knots if you don't know how to splice your own line.
There are short cuts to splicing double braid that are not strong.
Just my opinion...
r.w.landau

Pete · Aug 13, 2008

line handling

I assume you are going to a cleat to put the loop over so why not just cleat the line at both ends (dock and boat or at least one end) It would be good info to know how to splice and tie knots correctly(and proper use of each knot) that said the bowline is a good knot for this application. Splicing an eye is also good and more convient to use. As an old salt once told me "if you can't tie a knot tie alot "

Ross · Aug 13, 2008

For the tools and instruction you can't go wrong

with these links:
http://www.neropes.com/SPL_3StrandEyeSplice.aspx

http://www.navagear.com/2005/05/brion-toss%E2%80%99-splicing-wand/
http://briontoss.com/

Capt Jim24025 · Aug 13, 2008

knots weaken a line

A knot, ANY KNOT, will weaken the "safe working load" of a line by about 50%. A good splice (ie. short splice) will only weaken the line by about 10% to 15%.

I agree with previous posts. Learning how to make you own splices is easy, gratifying and practical. Buy a fid, search online for instructions (or buy a book), and practice... practice... practice.

Good luck,
Capt Cook

Warren Milberg · Aug 13, 2008

I personally think

it makes no difference if you splice or knot your dock lines. Sure, well done splices are stronger than a bowline. Some think they look better, too. But I think the strength of modern nylon docklines is the key factor here. I think a lot of other nasty things are going to happen to your boat before the working load of a dockline, in good condition, is exceeded-- because of knot rather than a splice in the line.

Just using the damage done at my marina during Hurricane Isabel as an example, I had a 5,500 lb boat tied with 15 3-strand nylon 1/2 inch docklines. The boat was totaled. The dock was totaled. All of the docklines, tied to pilings with bowlines, survived. In looking around the destroyed marina at all the other damaged boats, I never saw one broken dockline....

jviss · Aug 13, 2008

Double braid v. three strand, splice v. knot

1. I originally bought double dock lines 'cause I thought they were the classiest, "yachtiest" thing. I regret that. The outer braid catches on splinters on pilings and docks. It is O.K. to splice (I can splice anything), but still time consuming to do correctly.

2. I have switched to New England Ropes three strand nylon (anchor line) for dock lines. I think I'm using 9/16", maybe 5/8" stuff. I buy the short ends at West Marine for a big discount. I splice a big eye into one end, and just whip the other end. I have a couple of long ones, and a couple of shorter ones. They are tough, strong, will seemingly last forever.

3. A bowline will break at as low as 50% of the line strength. A splice can easily be as strong, even stronger than the line.

tweitz · Aug 13, 2008

Dock lines

Although I usually agree with Warren Milberg, I have seen dock lines go. In every case, though, it was chafing, not the knot or splice giving way.

Warren Milberg · Aug 13, 2008

I agree with Ted

in that chafe is what kills lines. In the example I used in my previous post, Hurricane Isabel, I did see lines that had failed due to chafe, but never saw one properly sized dockline that failed due a knot rather than a splice being used. I saw a lot of broken pilings, however, floating around with docklines (knotted or spliced) still attached to them....

jviss · Aug 13, 2008

Well, ...

As an engineer, I just have to comment. If you don't appreciate the difference between a knot or a splice, then how do you select the size of a line? Do you care about the difference between, for example, 5/16" and 7/16" line (roughly 1:2 in strength)? Or, if you're happy with a bowline in a dock line, why not use a smaller line and splice it, getting the same strength and saving the money?

Example:

NER 5/16" white premium 3-strand nylon: $0.40/ft.
NER 7/16" white premium 3-strand nylon: $0.53/ft.

(prices from West Marine online).
(tensile strength form NER website).

That's a 25% reduction in cost of your dock lines if you splice them rather than tie bowlines (or, a 33% premium paid to knot rather than splice) - for the same tensile strength (approx. 3,000 lb.).

So, who cares? I don't understand why folks would be so cavalier about this.

By the way, the double braid is slightly stronger than the three strand of the same diameter, but much more expensive (about 50% more); and, tougher to splice (i.e., more technical and time consuming, requiring tools).

sailaway78 · Aug 13, 2008

I'm with jviss on this one

Why worry about the cost difference in the line. Figure what you think you need, then go bigger. Use chafe gear. Take every precaution. Do not scrimp on spending a few dollars. You are talking about a few extra dollars, a little bit of work, vs losing your boat. While I am not an engineer, and make no claim to being any smarter than others here, I do have a tad of experience in this area. We regularly have afternoon thunderstorms with wind gusts of 40 to 60 knots, and the boat stays safe and secure. And my boat survived Katrina, anchored in the canal behind the house, with very minor damage. But you have to give it some thought, and like the Boy Scout motto, be prepared.

Stu Jackson · Aug 13, 2008

We've used both, so there!

Our bow lines have metal thimbles on the dock side, with anchor shackles to the dock cleats, bowline knots to form loops around the boat cleats. Rubber snubbers on the two bow lines.

Our stern dock lines have spliced loops at the boat end and are simply cleated onto the dock cleats.

We don't have thunderstorms and it can get windy but not anywhere near what so many of you get on a regular basis, but it's been working for us for 10 years.

Warren and others are right about chafe. The most USELESS piece of equipment of have EVER seen on boats are those line chocks with clats way inboard on the boat. They turn the line and REQUIRE the use of chafing gear. IMHO, those chocks should be replaced with simple cleats, which will give a fairlead right from the boat to the dock! Less chafe, more safety.

sailortonyb Allied Mis · Aug 13, 2008

TI Doug

Since there seems to be an issue with splicing, I will assume that you bought the double braided nylon. The double braided nylon is a little bit stronger than the 3 strand and a lot better abrasion resistance. It also stores easier. I have a fid kit and splice them myself. Normally you will pay $15 to $20 per eye on double braided. I say just go ahead and pay and be done with it. If you are good at reading very poorly worded directioons, get the Samson splicing kit.
Just read the directions carefully several times before atarting the splice. Then it will make sense to you. They are a PITA to do, but can be done first time around. I charge $20 per eye. Only way I charge $15 is if they buy the rope from me.

Everyone has different habits. We use the eye on the boat and the loose end on the cleats on the dock. That way, when we go out daysiling and come back, we juts drop the eye on the boat cleat and nothing else to be done. We have floating docks so everything remains the same all of the time.

Tony B

Ross · Aug 13, 2008

Knots, bends and hitches. I googled that phrase

and found this: http://www.realknots.com/knots/index.htm#hitches

Breaking wind · Aug 13, 2008

I agree with learning

how to splice, 20 bucks for a fid and a few practice runs, I find myself putting eyes "becket splice" in just about everything now. Double braid takes a few times to get it right but after you get it the knowledge is yours forever.

most riggers charge $15-30 a splice. (well worth it) because it's time consuming. but it's fun after you learn

I have sailed with bowline knots holding halyards up too....

dock line splicing vs. bowline?

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Breaking wind

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