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Do magazines (and forums) focus too much on larger boats...

Oct 22, 2014
15,713
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Oh yes. I just remembered: the Autopilot was a length of surgical tubing wrapped around the tiller and stretched/secured port and starboard.
 
  • Like
Likes: Rick D
Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I've always towed a dinghy behind my 25- there jut is not enough deck space to bring it aboard. I've had a small inflatable a,d a small hard dink. I'd personally prefer the inflatable, but my ex took it so I built a hard dinghy. Like Sumner I've only had one problem and that was due to the dinghy being under inflated due to an air leak I didn't know about.

Picture shot somewhere around 75-100 miles off shore, GOM
I've always been afraid, perhaps irrationally, to tow. On the Stiletto (the the F-24) there is a big tramp where I could stow something small and light. On the PDQ there were davits for something heavy, and I stacked kayaks on top of the davits (actually very easy, once you learn the trick). I've always wondered what I would do if the weather turned while I was towing, and in the time spent wondering, simply hauled it on deck. I didn't want to need to keep looking back. Thus, I think I would never want a dinghy that couldn't come on deck in moments with just one person. I do see people towing, but really, it's not very common practice on the Chesapeake Bay. It can get a nasty, steep chop. Doesn't seem worth the wear on the dinghy, banging into breaking crests and going airborne.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I've always towed a dinghy behind my 25- there jut is not enough deck space to bring it aboard. ....
Ditto and wouldn't want a smaller one for how we cruise. It rides on the davits on the Endeavour but I have no problems towing it with the Mac,

Sumner
================================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
... An advantage a small boat has is the small cabin area and reduced area that needs heating. Slept in the boat in the low 30's and go with long underwear and a stocking cap.

In the morning making coffee usually warms the cabin. If not...

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


... we run the heater above for a few minutes, but more than that and it drives you out. If the pop-top is down to conserve heat then we prop it up a few inches and open the companionway hatch a bit for ventilation when running either the stove or the heater and would never use either sleeping.
I'll phrase this as a dumb question. It's more fun that way.
"In what way is a non-vented heater, like the Little Mr. Buddy illustrated above, any better than simply leaving the stove on? Is it really any different?"
The pollutant load should be exactly the same. The heating efficiency is the same (all of the fuel). They both have flame-out sensors. The stove cannot tip over or have anything fall on it (unless you are very sloppy). The propane heater has an oxygen sensor, but these are primitive, typically consisting of a pilot light linked to said flame-out sensor (if the flame gets weak it cuts off), so this is the same as the stove.

I really prefer installed, vented heaters. A non-vented heater can never meet AYBC, even if installed, because it is non-vented. But if you are going to use a non-vented heater, why not just use the stove? I've never heard an explanation that held any water. The only reasonable up-side is that a portable heater can better direct the heat, whereas the heat from a stove will be more up-and-out. But I've certainly heated up the cabin making breakfast before.
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Ditto and wouldn't want a smaller one for how we cruise. It rides on the davits on the Endeavour but I have no problems towing it with the Mac,

Sumner
================================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
Anyone ever tow kayaks on open water? I frequently tow them with a tender in and around marshy islands to save paddling time and energy, but never far on open water.
 
Oct 19, 2017
6,855
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
had not a clue that long cruises could be made in smaller boats- totally brainwashed by the "slicks"
Charlie,
While on a Shannon 50 with my wife and my parents, in 1986, we met a girls, about 24, at the quay in Horta, in a boat about the size of yours. Didn't get to talk to her, just that she was from the states and sailing to Europe. Another young couple doing it in something under 30'. I think they were going the other direction.
To this date, I don't think anyone has completed the Around-in-Ten but 12' has cross the ocean. As a kid, I drew up a design to turn my Optimus into an ocean crosser. Around-in-Seven, anyone?
-Will (Dragonfly)
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I'll phrase this as a dumb question. It's more fun that way.
"In what way is a non-vented heater, like the Little Mr. Buddy illustrated above, any better than simply leaving the stove on? Is it really any different?"
My take is...


the stove has none of the safety features and the heat goes straight up as you mentioned. It heats the air but no real radiant heat. The little buddy gives you radiant heat that is directional as you pointed out. We heat the house with a wood burning stove and if you are near the stove, which we usually are, the radiant heat really makes a difference. The other day in the morning the house was 64 degrees and I started a fire. 45 minutes later the heat had climbed about 1 degree but we felt much warmer than that due to the radiant heat.

The Little Buddy has low oxygen shutoff, tip-over safety shutoff and a wire guard. The stove has none of that. I'm not sure but believe that the Little Buddy burns the fuel more completely than the stove.

Now saying all of that we have only used the Little Buddy maybe about 5 times in the Mac as fixing a meal as you mentioned is about all we needed. We used the Little Buddy about 15 days last winter/spring in the Endeavour while living/working on her in the boat yard in Florida when the temps got down into the 40's. Would get up and run it for 45 minutes or so. We have an electric space heater but it usually doesn't work as everyone else in the yard is trying to use one also and the 110 voltage goes down under 100 volts and they don't do much. Do use an elect. blanket at night when it is that cold.

We don't keep the propane bottles in the cabin of either boat. They are in the cockpit except when being used. In months of living on both boats and only needing heat maybe 3-4 hours total I can't see trying to come up with a vented heating system for either boat, especially the Mac. If we planned on being in the north on the Endeavour I'd look into a vented heater but that probably won't happen for us.

Sumner
========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
  • Like
Likes: Will Gilmore
Aug 22, 2017
1,608
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
...The one area that seems to be bucking the trend is the smaller racing boats. The J70 and other sport boats that have 3 person crews continue to gain popularity, while the big boats with large crews are less popular.
I credit a certain Mr. Johnstone for creating that particular anomaly. He seems to have an affinity for convincing people that they absolutely positively must have this specific one little boat...that he just happens to make. He also builds a good boat & does good market research. He's where he is for a good reason.
 
Mar 1, 2012
2,177
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
My stove- it's a HIGHLY modified SEASWING with the propane burner removed and an antique kero stove put in.Been using kero for years now. Gimbaled -Bought the stove in a garage sale, but it's a true antique from the battle of Britain
stove2.jpg
lledn
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
... the stove has none of the safety features [stove has flame out and low O2... at least mine does. Most do.] and the heat goes straight up as you mentioned. It heats the air but no real radiant heat. The little buddy gives you radiant heat that is directional as you pointed out. We heat the house with a wood burning stove and if you are near the stove, which we usually are, the radiant heat really makes a difference. The other day in the morning the house was 64 degrees and I started a fire. 45 minutes later the heat had climbed about 1 degree but we felt much warmer than that due to the radiant heat. [Personally, I always found radiant heat annoying--red on one side, blue on the other--but that may be personal taste.]

The Little Buddy has low oxygen shutoff [mine does] tip-over safety shutoff and a wire guard[obviously irrelevant, as I explained]. The stove has none of that. I'm not sure but believe that the Little Buddy burns the fuel more completely than the stove. [There is no basis for this. Gas and alcohol stoves run very clean when there is no pot present to quench the flame.]

Now saying all of that we have only used the Little Buddy maybe about 5 times in the Mac as fixing a meal as you mentioned is about all we needed. We used the Little Buddy about 15 days last winter/spring in the Endeavour while living/working on her in the boat yard in Florida when the temps got down into the 40's. Would get up and run it for 45 minutes or so. We have an electric space heater but it usually doesn't work as everyone else in the yard is trying to use one also and the 110 voltage goes down under 100 volts and they don't do much. Do use an elect. blanket at night when it is that cold.

We don't keep the propane bottles in the cabin of either boat. They are in the cockpit except when being used. In months of living on both boats and only needing heat maybe 3-4 hours total I can't see trying to come up with a vented heating system for either boat, especially the Mac. If we planned on being in the north on the Endeavour I'd look into a vented heater but that probably won't happen for us.

Sumner
========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
See underlined above. The bottom line is that as I stated, there is a radiant difference and not much else. Neither can be used unattended, without venting, or while sleeping. My thought is that there isn't much point in carrying the small heater, that I will only use a few hours each year, if the differences are so slight. If it is to be used regularly, neither option is acceptable. Others will feel differently.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,600
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
I have discontinued my subscriptions to CW and Sail. Sailing is on it's last year, after 30 years. The display ads are mostly about big luxury boat sailing and cheaply-built boats. Small boats never seem to get their due. I miss Small Boat Journal, but time marches on.

Nowadays we subscribe to some wonderful UK magazines that really cover all of the boat sizes. Practical Boat Owner and Yachting Monthly. My guess is that smaller boat sailors still have a "critical mass" in the market place in the UK, so magazines cater to them quite a bit, along with larger-boat owners.

Aside: when they evaluate a boat in those UK sailing magazines, they actually point out bad points as well as good points! Same with sailing gear. Radical idea...
This is totally unlike the US mags, where every boat they test is wonderful or even more than wonderful..... and coincidently the builder is buying a display ad in every issue.... :(
 
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Oct 22, 2014
15,713
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
wonderful or even more than wonderful..... and coincidently the builder is buying a display ad in every issue.... :(
So much for journalistic integrity. Or perhaps the writes have never been on boats and every one seems more wonderful then the one before. Or their office cubical.
 
Oct 19, 2017
6,855
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
My guess is that smaller boat sailors still have a "critical mass" in the market place in the UK
It seems like the small boat market is HUGE, to me but, as has been discussed in another thread, most of that is buying used. The mariner class is very active. I live near lake Winnipesaukee and lake Champlain and Lake George. Most of the sailboats, if not all, are under 35'. I've just not seen as many sailboats overall in the marinas I pass by. I noted on a recent trip to Miami that I saw NO masts anywhere driving across the causeway and along the ICW in that area.
Who are the equipment manufacturers selling to? What to the sailmakers have to say. What size boat are they making most of their sails for? There are a lot of lasers, Optis, Hobies, etc. out there.
-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Mar 29, 2015
69
MacGregor 25 trailer sailer
To be considered a "vent free" heater like a buddy heater it must be at least 99.9% efficient. It completely burns fuel you breath less hydrocarbons from incomplete combustion. When below freezing my buddy heater will have you warm in a few minutes and even on the lowest setting works great with the companionway open to keep my family cozy in the cabin while I sail. No fumes, no fuel to spill and spare canisters are kept in the cockpit so no worries about leakage in the cabin. Works great for us!
 
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Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I have discontinued my subscriptions to CW and Sail. Sailing is on it's last year, after 30 years. The display ads are mostly about big luxury boat sailing and cheaply-built boats. Small boats never seem to get their due. I miss Small Boat Journal, but time marches on.

Nowadays we subscribe to some wonderful UK magazines that really cover all of the boat sizes. Practical Boat Owner and Yachting Monthly. My guess is that smaller boat sailors still have a "critical mass" in the market place in the UK, so magazines cater to them quite a bit, along with larger-boat owners.

Aside: when they evaluate a boat in those UK sailing magazines, they actually point out bad points as well as good points! Same with sailing gear. Radical idea...
This is totally unlike the US mags, where every boat they test is wonderful or even more than wonderful..... and coincidently the builder is buying a display ad in every issue.... :(
I like Practical Boat Owner. Good articles and some testing. You ought to try Practical Sailor (no ads and better testing) and Good Old Boat (lots of DIY stuff, fewer infomercials). I think you would like them.
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Some smaller boat topics I've been considering:

Outboards. I've always used supplemental filtration (Raycor or something smaller) and believe it has helped. In the pre-ethanol days I know it did since I would occasionally drain water. Now all I am sure of is that it prevents the engine filter from clogging. However, part of the mechanism is that larger filters pass the fuel much more slowly per unit area, allowing the filter to remove water particles that would be pushed through or clog the media of a smaller filters. Do others run extra filters?

Solar. I've installed complex systems, integrated with a 120V system and shore power, but they are a poor match for most smaller boats. What with LED lighting and no propane solenoid, our power demands are quite low. I installed a 50W semi-flexible panel, a $25 PWM controller, and a fuse, and it works the trick for peanuts.

Anchoring. I'm tired of hearing about all-chain. I understand the reasons very well and I've used all-chain for a decade. But it's a terrible fit for the smaller boats I've owned. I actually went to no-chain with a chafe leader for my big cat's kedge/secondary and loved it. I wonder if we really need chain at all (I suspect a little is a good thing), but if so, how little? I would also love to see more anchors, other than Danforth/Fortress, that would fit into shallow anchor lockers.

Safety. How do the serious accidents vary from larger boats? MOB is more common. Is there some better jackline & tether system? (PS is running an article on custom and DIY tethers next month.) I know that I have always departed from the standard 3'/6' system for something that fit the boat. I'm adding jacklines to my current boat, but they will probably run only about 30% of the boat's length; that's what I need to stay on-board.

Keeping the companionway dry. A full dodger is too much for many boats. Without a dodger, how do you keep the rain out and ventilate when sleeping? I've rigged a mini-dodger of sorts, but I'm curious how others solve this endemic problem.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,440
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
The magazines have to compete with forums like this one for the newby, small boat info. Some writers are more interesting to read but I rarely see any technical sort of stuff in mags that I havent already seen here. Mag articles tend to have less incorrect stuff but a single author cant approach a problem from many different directions/ backgrounds like you will see on forums. And.. SBO has this really nice picture posting feature, the mags dont have an advantage there either.

Does SBO focus too much on large boats? You can stay in smaller boat sub-forums if you wish. When SBO changed formats a while ago, everyone now sees every group post and you get a lot of group mixing because of this.. but I think that has overall turned out to not be such a bad thing.
 
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Jul 1, 2010
857
Seaward 25, Catalina 350 Erie, Pa
Not all smaller boats are trailerable, but many are, and used that way, so articles on :
-Mast raising systems or improvements to existing systems that work and are simple to implement
-Trailering / trailer maintenance, etc.
-Cruising articles geared toward trailered boats that include info on launching, launches etc.

Heads on smaller boats are always a compromise:
-What works, what doesn't. For example, on our Seaward 25, the original marine head seemed to be a great idea. In practice, a 10 gal holding tank is not very ideal. We've use wag bags and porta potties on previous boats. Composter on current boat is our solution, but not the answer for everybody.

Sleeping on small boats:
-The older I get, the more I appreciate / need a comfortable mattress.
-Ideas and solutions for DIY mattresses and mattress support systems.

Refrigeration:
-Ideas for boats that have no refrigeration to keep food with minimal effort
-Ideas for installing refrigeration in small boats for people who want this. I did a conversion for our boat, and we have no intention of going back to juggling multiple coolers, but it wasn't cheap to do.

Electronics for the smaller boat, including navigation aids.

Ideas for increasing outside space on a small boat:
-Boom tents
-Canvas
-Mosquito screens

As mentioned in other posts, dinghy ideas. We currently use an inflatable kayak for most of our trips, and it works well, and is pretty quick to inflate (though we tow it after it is inflated the first time). We also have a portabote. Not as convenient but has its good points, as well.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
6,855
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Destinations, there is an incredible number of great destination sails that big boats can't do. Inland, yes but, also, thin water, low bridges, even regulations around toilets can keep big boats out of beautiful places that small boats can go.
- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,910
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
^^ Yes, "thinwater" is a common theme I'm not likely to overlook. It affects how we look at routes, destinations, and anchoring when we get there. It can also bite you:
  • Waves can be horrible over a bar when you take a shortcut.
  • Obstructions are not as well charted in areas that are not considered navigable. Stumps and tree trunks are a significant problem in may areas, both in reservoirs and bays where islands have experienced shoreline erosion. I hit a stump once at speed in 5-feet of water. It was loud.
  • Anchoring in shallows can be rough unless well protected.
  • Watch the tide closely.
  • Anchor too close to shore and the bugs will eat you.
 
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