Direct discharge head - illegal?

Jul 26, 2015
42
Watkins 29 Ft. Lauderdale
This is a case where the regs for big commercial boats are being used on the guy with the 27' sloop. Theres a big difference in flushing once or twice a day for 3 or 4 people as opposed to dumping hundreds of gallons. If your 1 mile off shore, there is zero chance that whatever you flush out of your 20 to 40 foot sailboat will ever find its way to shore.
I live in South Florida... we have I believe 6 outflow points that dump partially treated sewage right into the ocean between Miami and West Palm. These dump hundreds of millions of gallons of partially treated waste every day. And the Government is worried about Aunt Jenny peeing in the ocean? PULEEESE!
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
It's all just politicians "doing the right thing for the environment"...and unfortunately there are a whole bunch more environmental zealot voters than there are owners of boats big enough to have toilets. I've always considered it the ultimate irony that the very DAY Rhode Island's statewide NDZ law went into effect a major sewage treatment plant spill in Providence closed all the beaches and shellfish beds in that half of Narragansett Bay for a week!
 
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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
... the very DAY Rhode Island's statewide NDZ law went into effect a major sewage treatment plant spill in Providence closed all the beaches and shellfish beds in that half of Narragansett Bay for a week!
A treatment plant in Baltimore dumps (10,000?) gallons a day into the waterway. It is business as usual, because the plant is not big enough to treat it all. If they slowed down the flow so they could treat it all, then sewage would back up into homes- a know fact.
 
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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
you "I was checking the prop"
cg "But there's no prop on jet ski"
you "yah..i know it only after I jump into water..." ;)
Directly from you out, no problem. Directly from you into a head, different story. WTF!
 
Dec 25, 2014
84
Catalina 27 Pasadena, Md
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.
As someone who has taught a class on "Lock-out, Tag-out" for my Biomedical Electronics shop, I can assure you that this will only guarantee that the last time someone discharged was just before they were boarded, a wire cutter (or similar) and a bag of ties would make it easy to apply within a few seconds. We required a 50 lb breaking wire tie, but that can be cut with fingernail clippers.

By the way, I DO have a holding tank and NO straight discharge on my boat. And thanks to Peggie's advice, a new holding tank gauge (Ferriello Sales LLC) to make sure I don't overfill.
Bob
 
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Jul 21, 2009
48
2 26s Point du chene
There are way too many people with money enough for a boat who are very low class. Sure lets just act like soulless animals and spread our feces everywhere. The difference between upper class people and the lower classes is not money, or even intelligence, it is understanding respect and grace.
 
Jul 21, 2009
48
2 26s Point du chene
You sir, have class, it seems from comments here about regulations a commodity in short supply among boaters.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
As someone who has taught a class on "Lock-out, Tag-out" for my Biomedical Electronics shop, I can assure you that this will only guarantee that the last time someone discharged was just before they were boarded, a wire cutter (or similar) and a bag of ties would make it easy to apply within a few seconds. We required a 50 lb breaking wire tie, but that can be cut with fingernail clippers.

By the way, I DO have a holding tank and NO straight discharge on my boat. And thanks to Peggie's advice, a new holding tank gauge (Ferriello Sales LLC) to make sure I don't overfill.
Bob
I'd pity the 'society' that felt it nessessary to create laws that were 100% impossible to circumvent. Your next car would have a seatbelt that strapped you in automatically and mechanically before it would move.
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,739
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
I'd pity the 'society' that felt it nessessary to create laws that were 100% impossible to circumvent. Your next car would have a seatbelt that strapped you in automatically and mechanically before it would move.
You mean, like this?

Toyota, Mazda, Ford... Etc. all had 'em.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
Most boat owners know that it’s illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard in all U.S. waters. It actually has been for the last 37 years—since the effective date of the Federal Water Pollution Act (“Clean Water Act”) of 1977, although not enforced by many states until the mid 1980s. But how many boat owners know that a holding tank may not be the only option? How many know that “illegal to flush the toilet directly overboard” does not mean the same thing as “no discharge?”…that in most coastal waters, the discharge of treated waste from a Coast Guard Certified Type I (legal on boats under 66’) or Type II (for boats 66’+) MSD is legal? That Type I and II MSDs even exist?
Even if you do know they exist, so much misinformation and outright lies are being circulated by environmental extremists and the politicians who pander to them that many owners are unwilling to install them—afraid they will be banned, or convinced that they’re harmful to the environment. Or that they cost too much, or consume too much power. Boat owners been deliberately and methodically brainwashed into believing that holding tanks are the only affordable, practical, environmentally safe way to manage onboard waste.

The discharge from treatment devices is cleaner than that from most sewage treatment plants...cleaner than most coastal water...cleaner than the water in any marina. However, because of cost and power requirements, fewer than 5% of boats have ever had or are likely to have treatment devices, which means that the other 95% of boats with toilets should already have holding tanks. All of which makes 99.999% of NDZs unnecessary. They exist only because environmental extremists think they should and politician pander to special interest groups.

In the early 90s Representative James Saxton (R-NJ) now retired, introduced a bill every year for five consecutive years that would have lowered the legal standard for bacteria count in the discharge from treatment devices from a max of 1000/100 mil to a max of 10--which the Raritan and Groco treatment devices meet...(fwiw, the federal water quality standard for swimming waters is a max of 200) and allow boats equipped with devices that meet that standard to use them in all waters, even in NDZs. The environmental lobbies never let any of 'em even make it out of committee, much less make to the House floor for a vote. He finally gave up. Had it passed, equipment mfrs would have had reason to invest in the R&D to develop more affordable, less power hungry treatment devices, keeping onboard waste out of sewage treatment plants.

"Class" isn't in short supply here, Mike...but fortunately people who jump to conclusions without the knowledge on which to base them are.
 
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Feb 20, 2011
7,993
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
There are way too many people with money enough for a boat who are very low class. Sure lets just act like soulless animals and spread our feces everywhere. The difference between upper class people and the lower classes is not money, or even intelligence, it is understanding respect and grace.
Value judgement. :rolleyes:
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Peggie; It isn't just about the bacteria discharge, it is about nutrient discharge. This is a particular problem in developed closed waterways where the nutrient run off is already at maximum capacity. eg; Chesapeake. And the situation is way more complicated than you portray. So while cities and boaters have cleaned up their discharges, the agriculture and mining industry lobbyists (and the EPA Director!) continue to push their Clean Water Act exemptions to discharge animal waste and mine run-off. In fact animal waste run off is now the major contaminant to the Chesapeake. By far.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
So while cities and boaters have cleaned up their discharges, the agriculture and mining industry lobbyists (and the EPA Director!) continue to push their Clean Water Act exemptions to discharge animal waste and mine run-off. In fact animal waste run off is now the major contaminant to the Chesapeake. By far.
Agreed, and a major contaminant at not just the Chesapeake. However, it did not appear to me that Peggy was minimizing the complexity. I think she is on target with regard to the recreational boating industry, without being dismissive about the big picture.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
It isn't just about the bacteria discharge, it is about nutrient discharge. This is a particular problem in developed closed waterways where the nutrient run off is already at maximum capacity. eg; Chesapeake.
I don't argue that it's a huge problem, but treatment devices don't contribute to it. Results from a major university study:
B.O.D.5 results from a boats holding tank contents is approximately 4000 - 5000 mg/l.
B.O.D.5 results from untreated waste is approximately 1000 - 4000 mg/l.
B.O.D.5 results from 12 oak leaves/250 ml water is 2241 mg/l.
B.O.D.5 results from a LectraSan/ElectroScan, or PuraSan treated waste is approximately 300 - 1200 mg/l--less than that from four oak leaves falling off a tree into the water.
B.O.D.5 results from municipal treatment is approximately (no nat. stds.) 50 - 700 mg/l.

1000 boats using treatment devices all anchored in the same location for 24 hours could not equal the The negative environmental impact from just ONE illegally dumped tank. If you want an idea of how many tanks are dumped in the Bay, you only have to find out how many have overboard discharge pumps. Not everyone who has one is using it in the Bay, but a large percentage are.

The problems with the Chesapeake Bay are incredibly complex. Boats, even the illegally dumped tanks, are the least of it and while waterfront development gets a lot of the blame, it's nowhere near the damage caused by everything that comes into it from the 9 rivers that feed it, from as far as hundreds of miles away. Even the inadequate sewage treatment facilities do nowhere near that much damage. It wasn't that long ago that the oysters, clams and other shellfish that are nature's "sewage treatment plants" could keep it clean...but overfishing them along with a virus that depleted the oysters even more has seriously damaged, if not destroyed, that essential ecosystem. Finding the solutions to all these problems won't be easy. But encouraging the use of treatment devices will actually help because every boat that has one is boat that isn't putting waste into a tank to be dumped by the owner or the sewage treatment plant.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Peggy - how much from per cow grazing along stream beds?? Bet you the per day exceeds a holding tank.