I am in the market for a Catalina 27 and was wondering if anyone had any comments on a diesel vs. gas motor. Any preferences? What should I look for in a 1974-1978 vintage boat? Thanks for any help.
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my comments
Well for the years that you are looking most of the boats will be gas engines. And thats not bad, the A-4 boats ( boats with the Atomic 4 engine ) are easy to work on and when you turn the key they seem to jump to life. And don't listen to those goofs that clam that gas is unsafe. Lot of cars, lawnmowers, and airplanes use gas. Try to find a C-27 with good keel bolts. The cheeper ones will have soft decks, leaky windows and blisters. All of this can be fixed as you enjoy using the boat. Pick a boat that already has roller furling. And choose a boat that is close by, the shipping can end up costing more than the boat. Happy sailing, Rodger
Well for the years that you are looking most of the boats will be gas engines. And thats not bad, the A-4 boats ( boats with the Atomic 4 engine ) are easy to work on and when you turn the key they seem to jump to life. And don't listen to those goofs that clam that gas is unsafe. Lot of cars, lawnmowers, and airplanes use gas. Try to find a C-27 with good keel bolts. The cheeper ones will have soft decks, leaky windows and blisters. All of this can be fixed as you enjoy using the boat. Pick a boat that already has roller furling. And choose a boat that is close by, the shipping can end up costing more than the boat. Happy sailing, Rodger
'Nother forum
Chris, This is a very complex conversation,and add to it those who use outboard powered C27's. There aregood arguments pro and con gas, the Uni 5411 diesel,and outboard power. I recommend that you ask on the board below which has very helpfuland knowledgeable C27 owners. Roger Cape Cod (NOT Rodger)
Chris, This is a very complex conversation,and add to it those who use outboard powered C27's. There aregood arguments pro and con gas, the Uni 5411 diesel,and outboard power. I recommend that you ask on the board below which has very helpfuland knowledgeable C27 owners. Roger Cape Cod (NOT Rodger)
Gas is explosive
Gasoline is explosive. The difference in your car and a boat is that your engine compartment in the car is well ventilated where the boat is confined. You must ventilate the engine compartment prior to starting, repeat, must. Last year there a power boat had just refueled at a local marina, they did not vent the engine compartment before starting, boom. No boat and a couple of people injured.
Gasoline is explosive. The difference in your car and a boat is that your engine compartment in the car is well ventilated where the boat is confined. You must ventilate the engine compartment prior to starting, repeat, must. Last year there a power boat had just refueled at a local marina, they did not vent the engine compartment before starting, boom. No boat and a couple of people injured.
Yes, but most gas
boats have been around 30+ years. If gas were such a bad thing, why would they still be here? There are hundreds of thousands of gas-powered runabouts, cruisers and outboards out there, not even considering the A4 sailboats. You hear of a few gas motor sinkings a year. Many less than you hear blamed on gate valves (and there are still lots of 27's out there with the original gate valves), or on hurricanes (and that doesn't cause people to stop living in Florida). Not to say that Glenn is wrong, or to ignore the procedures you should follow religiously with a gas motor, but take it in context. If you're careful in running the blowers, and maintain your fuel system, a gas powered boat (A4 or OB) can be quiet, economical, long-lived and easily maintained with inexpensive parts, and with the skills most boaters who drive cars have. And in a C27, one of the biggest problems with diesels are the way they are shoehorned into the engine compartment. You need to have three sets of double-jointed elbows to work on them! So there are lot of regular maintenance tasks that don't get done regularly by a lot of owners. A4s are a lot better, but outboards are best in that regard. I just pulled the OB from my 27 last week to take it in for an bi-annual service at the dealer. Took me about an hour to disconnect the remote controls and pull it out of the boat. Service was about $250. And 5 years ago, when the old OB needed to be replaced (the old evinrude had an estimated 1500-1800 hours on it), I paid 2K for a brand new motor. Try doing that with an A4 or diesel! And be sure to try Roger's trailersailor C27 forum. Lots about the pros and cons of the various motor choices there.
boats have been around 30+ years. If gas were such a bad thing, why would they still be here? There are hundreds of thousands of gas-powered runabouts, cruisers and outboards out there, not even considering the A4 sailboats. You hear of a few gas motor sinkings a year. Many less than you hear blamed on gate valves (and there are still lots of 27's out there with the original gate valves), or on hurricanes (and that doesn't cause people to stop living in Florida). Not to say that Glenn is wrong, or to ignore the procedures you should follow religiously with a gas motor, but take it in context. If you're careful in running the blowers, and maintain your fuel system, a gas powered boat (A4 or OB) can be quiet, economical, long-lived and easily maintained with inexpensive parts, and with the skills most boaters who drive cars have. And in a C27, one of the biggest problems with diesels are the way they are shoehorned into the engine compartment. You need to have three sets of double-jointed elbows to work on them! So there are lot of regular maintenance tasks that don't get done regularly by a lot of owners. A4s are a lot better, but outboards are best in that regard. I just pulled the OB from my 27 last week to take it in for an bi-annual service at the dealer. Took me about an hour to disconnect the remote controls and pull it out of the boat. Service was about $250. And 5 years ago, when the old OB needed to be replaced (the old evinrude had an estimated 1500-1800 hours on it), I paid 2K for a brand new motor. Try doing that with an A4 or diesel! And be sure to try Roger's trailersailor C27 forum. Lots about the pros and cons of the various motor choices there.
Personal preference
Personally, I have a diesel. There are pros and cons to each type of engine. Diesels are noisey, but cost less to operate. Peter is right about maintance, It's all I can do to squeeze around to reach a few things on my Westerbeke. Gasoline can explode. Most marina fires start on Gasoline fueled boats running electric heaters. The older saltwater cooled engines need expensive repairs. Older outboards only last so long in saltwater they need to be rinsed out after use. But they give you more storage space in the "basement". I think cabin layout is just as/if not more important. The outboard boats are about $4-6000 less than inboards around here. I would find a boat that has a doger, roller furling, etc. Figure out what you want to spend and add 1/2 for all the stuff you decide to repair/change/improve. Crawl thru the boat and check everything talked about in the archives, then get it surveyed. Check the link, Bob has one in his listing and there are several in the area for sail, mabye even mine LOL (then I could geta 30 or bigger) Just kidding?
Personally, I have a diesel. There are pros and cons to each type of engine. Diesels are noisey, but cost less to operate. Peter is right about maintance, It's all I can do to squeeze around to reach a few things on my Westerbeke. Gasoline can explode. Most marina fires start on Gasoline fueled boats running electric heaters. The older saltwater cooled engines need expensive repairs. Older outboards only last so long in saltwater they need to be rinsed out after use. But they give you more storage space in the "basement". I think cabin layout is just as/if not more important. The outboard boats are about $4-6000 less than inboards around here. I would find a boat that has a doger, roller furling, etc. Figure out what you want to spend and add 1/2 for all the stuff you decide to repair/change/improve. Crawl thru the boat and check everything talked about in the archives, then get it surveyed. Check the link, Bob has one in his listing and there are several in the area for sail, mabye even mine LOL (then I could geta 30 or bigger) Just kidding?
Diesel
Chris, I wouldn't trade my Universal 5411 diesel in my Catalina 27 for two gas engines. Can't wear it out, and the fumes are not nearly as dangerous as gasoline. Fuel does take some care. Good luck
Chris, I wouldn't trade my Universal 5411 diesel in my Catalina 27 for two gas engines. Can't wear it out, and the fumes are not nearly as dangerous as gasoline. Fuel does take some care. Good luck
diesel/gas and the A4
I have a 1977 C27 with a gas Atomic 4. Yes, there is alot of debate over gas and diesel and everyone knows gas is more combustable then diesel. If I were to have to re-power, I would probably go to an outboard or diesel, but I'm not going to rip this engine out because it is gas. As with any gas powered inboard boat, operating the blowers are crucial. Sniffing around and using good common sense, particularly on those hot days. The A-4 is a good reliable and easy to work on motor, so don't pass it by, particularly if the boat it is in is in good shape and a good deal. The A4 can run all day on little gas, parts are pretty easy to find, and there are upgrade kits (i.e electronic ignition, oil filter, engine fumes, etc). Hope this helps.
I have a 1977 C27 with a gas Atomic 4. Yes, there is alot of debate over gas and diesel and everyone knows gas is more combustable then diesel. If I were to have to re-power, I would probably go to an outboard or diesel, but I'm not going to rip this engine out because it is gas. As with any gas powered inboard boat, operating the blowers are crucial. Sniffing around and using good common sense, particularly on those hot days. The A-4 is a good reliable and easy to work on motor, so don't pass it by, particularly if the boat it is in is in good shape and a good deal. The A4 can run all day on little gas, parts are pretty easy to find, and there are upgrade kits (i.e electronic ignition, oil filter, engine fumes, etc). Hope this helps.
Depends on how you use it
1. Atomic 4 has much more power than either the 5411 or the outboard. Therefore, if you often need to power against a current, it will give you an edge over the Diesel and the outboard. 2. If you mainly use your engine to get in and out of the harbor and sail most of the time, the outboard-powered boat will sail faster than the inboards after you lift the prop out of the water. You also will pick up a ton of storage space under the cockpit. 3. If you power for long periods of time in relatively calm waters, the Diesel will serve you well. As others have mentioned, replacing an outboard is much cheaper and easier than replacing or overhauling either the gas or the Diesel, so condition is very importand with either of the inboards.
1. Atomic 4 has much more power than either the 5411 or the outboard. Therefore, if you often need to power against a current, it will give you an edge over the Diesel and the outboard. 2. If you mainly use your engine to get in and out of the harbor and sail most of the time, the outboard-powered boat will sail faster than the inboards after you lift the prop out of the water. You also will pick up a ton of storage space under the cockpit. 3. If you power for long periods of time in relatively calm waters, the Diesel will serve you well. As others have mentioned, replacing an outboard is much cheaper and easier than replacing or overhauling either the gas or the Diesel, so condition is very importand with either of the inboards.
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