Diesel shutoff question

Jun 2, 2011
347
Hunter H33 Port Credit Harbour, ON.
Well, some of what you say makes sense, some doesn't fit. I cannot feel any detent position on the throttle lever. It is possible the detent is worn beyond usefulness. The regulator lever has a bracket for a kill cable, but there wasn't any cable connected. The "universal" cable won't connect to this bracket. That the clevis is not slotted confirms that C&C modified this, probably to create a single cable operation, but the stop pin, and lack of detent make maneuvering in close spaces like a marina much too exciting after accidental stalls. Granted I am used to steering with the engines, but this boat doesn't have 2 Chrysler 360's, and only 1 screw, so that's out of the question.
I don't see the bracket for the kill cable on the picture of the regulator lever. When I said a detent I was talking in general terms as I am not familiar with your exact installation. I was using the picture and the page from the maintenance manual as a reference. Maybe the system has been changed over time. It does not look like it is possible for that system to have any shutdown movement with a fixed pin in the clevis without moving the fuel control lever.
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
I don't see the bracket for the kill cable on the picture of the regulator lever. When I said a detent I was talking in general terms as I am not familiar with your exact installation. I was using the picture and the page from the maintenance manual as a reference. Maybe the system has been changed over time. It does not look like it is possible for that system to have any shutdown movement with a fixed pin in the clevis without moving the fuel control lever.
Yes, if you follow the stop pin up, the bracket is just out of the picture. I was there today rewiring the float switch, and bilge pump. The old wire was lamp cord that was old and brittle, practically crumbling in my hands. It's now marine grade, sheathed wire. Anyway, while I was there I carefully tested the throttle lever. It moved smoothly from stop to stop, without the slightest feel of a detent. This particular configuration is curious. If C&C modified the original design to a single cable operation, as the non slotted clevis suggests I would expect the detent you describe, and I would see no need for the stop pin and spring, which are useless in this configuration. I can look for a cable, or have one made that fits properly. Then, assuming I am successful, I will search for a slotted clevis, and reconfigure everything according to the 2 cable configuration. In the interim I have modified a hard rubber door stop that is exactly the correct width, and wedge it below the throttle lever to prevent accidentally pushing the throttle far enough to stall. Not pretty, but functional. Obviously that will have to go before I clean and repaint those pieces The throttle lever is going to need some stripping, cleaning, and dipping in red Neoprene sometime soon, and the surrounding cast metal will need cleaning and painting. Hopefully by then I will have fixed the throttle/engine stop situation properly (without the doorstop}
 
Jun 2, 2011
347
Hunter H33 Port Credit Harbour, ON.
Ok, I see where the stop cable would mount. With the stop cable a detent would not be necessary but a slot in the clevis would definitely be required. The idle position of the regulator lever rests against the stop spring, the control lever would over travel this position, putting the clevis pin towards the cable end of the slot, and rest on the control lever stop. When the stop cable is pulled it compresses the stop spring and the return spring pulls the regulator lever towards the stop position. This movement is allowed by the free play in the clevis slot. No detent required in the control lever.

You may have to purchase a clevis and modify it to get the slot. Here is a possible candidate:

Best of luck to you.
 

RoyS

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Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Suggest you get the Yanmar 2QM15 Maintenance Manual and the Parts Manual. They are probably on line and available in print. I have both and use them all the time. My guess is that the prior owner who likes lamp cord probably changed the clevis device as well. There is no detent and the throttle operation is as I described above. Yanmar supplied the engine and transmission to whoever wanted to buy it. The Yanmar installation manual recommended that the installer supply a throttle control that was basically a single lever, dual function controller (Morse MT Type). Most boat builders ignored that recommendation and connected whatever throttle and shift control that was convenient and/or inexpensive for them. The stop cable was optional from Yanmar and was not part of the throttle and shift controller device. The Yanmar part number for the stop cable was 124070-67550 but that one was about 9' long. You can no doubt find a shorter model. The suggested Morse single lever controller is now sold by Seastar. I use their CH5310P model but my installation on deck is probably different from yours. Yanmar very clearly stated in their installation instructions not to use a dual lever (throttle/shift) controller, yet most boat builders did just that with the various steering wheel pedestal products available at the time. All of the necessary parts are readily available and I strongly recommend that you get the correct parts and follow the Yanmar installation instructions. Good luck.
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
Suggest you get the Yanmar 2QM15 Maintenance Manual and the Parts Manual.
I downloaded the service manual for the 1989 2QM15, may see if there is a 1979 version somewhere, and will look for the parts manual. Bigger problem I seem to be having is finding someone who has those parts. Will remeasure the old frozen cable (even though it was connected to the decompression lever, not the stop pin) it is pretty close to the 10' "universal" cable that won't work. Not sure 9' is a problem if it allows me to route it safely away from hot engine parts.

I hate to publicly admit how foreign this little diesel is to me. I have located the oil filter, and oil fill, but not the dipstick, and don't even know what viscosity.

As I was composing this I got a message from Yanmar with the name of a parts distributer for "my area." Will post back if they pan out.
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
...The suggested Morse single lever controller is now sold by Seastar. I use their CH5310P model but my installation on deck is probably different from yours. Yanmar very clearly stated in their installation instructions not to use a dual lever (throttle/shift) controller, yet most boat builders did just that with the various steering wheel pedestal products available at the time. All of the necessary parts are readily available and I strongly recommend that you get the correct parts and follow the Yanmar installation instructions. Good luck.
Here is my less fancy two lever throttle and recently installed "stall inhibiting detent device" (formerly known as a modified hard rubber doorstop). It's embarrassing, but effective for now.

throttle-doorstop.png



If I cannot come up with a suitable 2 cable arrangement I may simply drill a hole and insert a locking pin as a stop.
T-Handle Ball Lock Pin.jpg
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
Suggest you get the Yanmar 2QM15 Maintenance Manual and the Parts Manual. They are probably on line and available in print. I have both and use them all the time. My guess is that the prior owner who likes lamp cord probably changed the clevis device as well. There is no detent and the throttle operation is as I described above. Yanmar supplied the engine and transmission to whoever wanted to buy it. The Yanmar installation manual recommended that the installer supply a throttle control that was basically a single lever, dual function controller (Morse MT Type). Most boat builders ignored that recommendation and connected whatever throttle and shift control that was convenient and/or inexpensive for them. The stop cable was optional from Yanmar and was not part of the throttle and shift controller device. The Yanmar part number for the stop cable was 124070-67550 but that one was about 9' long. You can no doubt find a shorter model. The suggested Morse single lever controller is now sold by Seastar. I use their CH5310P model but my installation on deck is probably different from yours. Yanmar very clearly stated in their installation instructions not to use a dual lever (throttle/shift) controller, yet most boat builders did just that with the various steering wheel pedestal products available at the time. All of the necessary parts are readily available and I strongly recommend that you get the correct parts and follow the Yanmar installation instructions. Good luck.
Interim update. The Yanmar parts people say the slotted clevis is no longer available, but the stop cable is. He also gave me a source he recommends for used parts. So the search for a slotted clevis begins. If this used parts guy can't find one, maybe one of the hundreds of clevis manufacturers will. I requested thread size and count info, but if it's not readily available it is not too difficult to remove the current clevis, and find a bolt matching the thread and diameter. I really don't want to modify a clevis, unless as a last resort.
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Fairly certain thread size is 10-32 consistent with Morse cables.
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
OK I had just about resigned to finding and modifying a clevis fork (to create a slot). Now I can't find a cable. Yanmar cable P/N 124070-67550 listed as the stop cable is no longer available. The parts catalog shows Yanmar cable P/N 104214-03700 is discontinued in the U.S. but available in Japan. It's hard to tell from diagram sketches but I think it will also work as a stop cable. This is further supported by the fact the defective cable was connected to the decompression valve, not the stop pin, and I can see it would work if it wasn't defective.
I seem to remember finding someone on line that makes custom cables, but can't find them again to ask. Before I throw up my hands and drill & pin does anyone have a cable source, or new thoughts?
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
Update for anyone still following. Stumbled across a Yanmar cable at Sailboat Engine Parts and Boat Parts- TOAD Marine Supply . All the part numbers for the cable listed from various sources came up "discontinued", but when search by "Stop cable" it found "manufacturer: Yanmar, part number : 104271-67550, description : Engine Stop Cable, 10 Feet" The picture showed it was exactly like my defective cable (right down to Engine Stop in Japanese and English on the knob), so I knew it would work in spite of their parts guy saying it wouldn't. Ironically their warehouse in in the area so I could pick it up from their shipping department, and didn't have to wait a week to find out (didn't have to pay shipping either). Took it to the boat and it's just what the doctor ordered.
Unfortunately still not finding the Clevis assembly any way I try. So I took the old one off (to measure size and thread) and will probably have to modify, or come up with something. Am thinking if I can't find a modifiable clevis, I may be able to modify a turnbuckle if I find one of the right size and thread. Either way I will post pictures of before and after for the curious.
 
Dec 29, 2008
806
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
figure about two hours on the tools for every hour on the water is about right.
That sounds exceptionally efficient if you ask me. You can do everything needed in only 2x the actual time on the water? I thought 10x was more likely!
 
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Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
Continuing the updates. Removed the old clevis fork. It is non metric (10-32 thread), so highly unlikely it came from Yanmar, and was replaced when the non-metric throttle cable was installed or replaced. That means a search for the original is pointless, so the search for an appropriate clevis fork began. I was able to find several with the appropriate #10-32 thread, and the right measurements in all other aspects except when closely examining, the "arms" are similar to the original (below)
oldclevisforksm.jpg

where the pivot hole (some manufacturers call this the bore) is larger than the "arms" and trying to elongate the hole wouldn't work.
After some additional searching I found Midwest Control Products Corp. BTC-187L Clevis and Yoke Ends Female 10-32 RH (below).
6572-500x500 (1).jpg

This shape should allow for the modification.
In a couple days I will let you know if this works.
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Mcmaster Carr is a good hardware source. Yanmar original was 10-32 thread to mate with Morse 33c cables. Morse is now Seastar.
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
Mcmaster Carr is a good hardware source. Yanmar original was 10-32 thread to mate with Morse 33c cables. Morse is now Seastar.
They were one of the first places I looked. While they had clevis forks with #10-32 thread, and other critical measurements, their clevises were similar to the one I removed, and unsuitable for modification (changing pivot hole to a slot). Notice on the sketch of the one I ordered the "arms" are uniform in width from end to end so elongating the hole is possible. Now look at the original and imagine what would happen if I elongated the hole. I only wish I had a better feel for how much additional regulator lever movement is necessary to go from idle to stop. I'm hoping as little as 1/4" extra travel will do the trick (though this clevis fork will allow me up to 3/4").
 
Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
Sorry this took so long. I finally got out to install the modified clevis fork, and stop cable. Had to adjust the throttle cable so that at its physical limit the regulator lever is being pulled by the return spring, but resisted by the stop pin. Throttle now will reduce engine to idle, but will not stop the engine. A slight pull and hold of the stop engine knob stops the engine every time. I did make some adjustment of the stop pin so that the engine idle is low enough. But the modification works like a charm.
 
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Apr 21, 2021
75
C&C 30 Harrison Township, MI
did the test pass???? ;)

dj
Well, no one chastised me, corrected my spelling, told me to ask elsewhere, questioned my intelligence, or said that the question was inappropriate. They did however contribute, and help me tackle the issue, so I would say yes the test passed, but it was never a test of the forum, but of my understanding and following of the established forum etiquette.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,249
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
You did good! There was somebody recently who managed to pick a few fights with his very first post!