I'd like to gather opinion on the best way to back out of a slip that has a rather heavy prevailing wind coming across the starboard bow and very little room to back out (only about 1-1/2 boat legnths before the bulkhead). The problem I face on days where the wind exceeds 10 knots, is that the bow wants to point with the wind--which is the opposite way down the fairway I want to be heading). One school of thought says, walk the boat out using springlines. The other says leave under power (give it a good thrust of reverse to quickly back clear of the slip and then give it forward power). The third school says back out of the slip with the stearn into the wind (but this is very difficult in a narrow fairway with strong propwalk to port). What do you suggest? Please share your thoughts and/or experiences. Thanks!
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Un-Docking
Carl The related link is a forum archive search on springlines. Given your situation, there's really no one BEST answer. All three will work, although I am personally aghast at anyone walking their boats out of a slip. Just my opinion. You could also do a forum archive search on propwalk, there's hundreds of contributions to that subject, with overlapping discussions of springlines. You'll need to pick the one you're most comfortable with, and get really good at it!
Don't forget, practice, practice, practice. Stu PS I've mentioned this before, and evidently haven't made a dent: it sure would be helpful if folks would say what kind and size of boat they have. That sometimes helps to answer the question. I put that information in my sign-on name. PPS Carl, also try this: http://archive.sailboatowners.com/archive/archivepview.tpl?sku=2003241131411.96&forumabr=as&fno=21&_ptitle=ptitle%20rtitle&_psamp=psamp&&model=none&forum=none&andor=wo&keyword=practice&pr=p,r&ssite=CO&srt=pdate&start=63&max=1&db=2003
Carl The related link is a forum archive search on springlines. Given your situation, there's really no one BEST answer. All three will work, although I am personally aghast at anyone walking their boats out of a slip. Just my opinion. You could also do a forum archive search on propwalk, there's hundreds of contributions to that subject, with overlapping discussions of springlines. You'll need to pick the one you're most comfortable with, and get really good at it!
Don't forget, practice, practice, practice. Stu PS I've mentioned this before, and evidently haven't made a dent: it sure would be helpful if folks would say what kind and size of boat they have. That sometimes helps to answer the question. I put that information in my sign-on name. PPS Carl, also try this: http://archive.sailboatowners.com/archive/archivepview.tpl?sku=2003241131411.96&forumabr=as&fno=21&_ptitle=ptitle%20rtitle&_psamp=psamp&&model=none&forum=none&andor=wo&keyword=practice&pr=p,r&ssite=CO&srt=pdate&start=63&max=1&db=2003I agree with Stu
It all depends on what works. It is very difficult for me to back my C30 out on a day when the wind is hitting me braodside and pushing the bow into the dock. On days like this I keep a long line on the Stern and around the cleat ( not cleated) on the dock so that I can use this a leverage to swing the bow. Once I am about 1/2 out of the dock and the bow is in the direction I want it to be, I can release the line from the cleat and be on my way. ( I have a good turning wheel at the corner of the dock so I don't take the side off the boat). With this manouver I can swing the boat into the wind no problem. I came to this procedure through trial and error, it does take some power and some quick reflexes. Good Luck !
It all depends on what works. It is very difficult for me to back my C30 out on a day when the wind is hitting me braodside and pushing the bow into the dock. On days like this I keep a long line on the Stern and around the cleat ( not cleated) on the dock so that I can use this a leverage to swing the bow. Once I am about 1/2 out of the dock and the bow is in the direction I want it to be, I can release the line from the cleat and be on my way. ( I have a good turning wheel at the corner of the dock so I don't take the side off the boat). With this manouver I can swing the boat into the wind no problem. I came to this procedure through trial and error, it does take some power and some quick reflexes. Good Luck !
Walking works for me
I also dock bow in, and I have to disagree with Stu on the walking the boat out. We only have about a foot of clearance squeezing out of our dock. After much frustration I have found the easiest way out is to walk the boat about half way out. This gets some way on so the rudder helps cancel the prop walk. Once the widest part of the beam is clear, hang the lines on the poles for easy pickup on the way in and control the boat with power and rudder. You can also counter the effect of the wind and get the stern started moving starboard by pulling harder/longer on the port line.
I also dock bow in, and I have to disagree with Stu on the walking the boat out. We only have about a foot of clearance squeezing out of our dock. After much frustration I have found the easiest way out is to walk the boat about half way out. This gets some way on so the rudder helps cancel the prop walk. Once the widest part of the beam is clear, hang the lines on the poles for easy pickup on the way in and control the boat with power and rudder. You can also counter the effect of the wind and get the stern started moving starboard by pulling harder/longer on the port line.
Backing into the Slip
Have you considered backing your boat into your slip so that you can exit the slip forward? I have a similar situation (although not quite as tight as yours) and we back our boat into the slip. It takes a fair amount of practice and is more difficult on windy days. It did take a little bit to get accustomed to the prop walk. We've found the best way is to approach as slow as possible and use burst of reverse power to back in. Just something to consider.
Have you considered backing your boat into your slip so that you can exit the slip forward? I have a similar situation (although not quite as tight as yours) and we back our boat into the slip. It takes a fair amount of practice and is more difficult on windy days. It did take a little bit to get accustomed to the prop walk. We've found the best way is to approach as slow as possible and use burst of reverse power to back in. Just something to consider.
Stu- why aghast?
Stu- puzzled why you are aghast at walking a boat out of a slip. I have a crew member walk me halfway out so I can clear the side in reverse and then power forward. It seems to work well but do you think this is bad seamanship? Dave S/V Allegra Cat 30
Stu- puzzled why you are aghast at walking a boat out of a slip. I have a crew member walk me halfway out so I can clear the side in reverse and then power forward. It seems to work well but do you think this is bad seamanship? Dave S/V Allegra Cat 30
back Out
I too back out into my slip due to the same problem... It is easier to back into my slip then back out of it.. I got tired of being the free show... or freak show.. haha
I too back out into my slip due to the same problem... It is easier to back into my slip then back out of it.. I got tired of being the free show... or freak show.. haha
I sometimes walk my boat a little out of the slip
And sometimes I power out. I am in a very well protected marina and its very easy to do. I don't think anyone that saw me do it would think its inelegant nor unseamanlike. It looks very relaxed and simple. BTW I back out the whole way down the fairway and then I turn around. I find it much easier to do that than try and turn around in the restricted area right behind and the side of my slip (I'm down near the beginning of the pier and there is a dock walkway that runs parallel that makes it difficult to spin around) I say whatever works for you without problems is the best method.
And sometimes I power out. I am in a very well protected marina and its very easy to do. I don't think anyone that saw me do it would think its inelegant nor unseamanlike. It looks very relaxed and simple. BTW I back out the whole way down the fairway and then I turn around. I find it much easier to do that than try and turn around in the restricted area right behind and the side of my slip (I'm down near the beginning of the pier and there is a dock walkway that runs parallel that makes it difficult to spin around) I say whatever works for you without problems is the best method.
Why Aghast
Dave Reason is that I think one should be able to put the boat where you want it rather than using hands, because most times I see people pushing on stanchions, which end up leaking. A dockmate had his daughter at the tiller and he pushed the boat out - it and she left, he didn't! {This was a C25, with a very easy to manuver outboard and tiller with plenty of space, I did it all the time on mine two docks down.} In reading some of the other replies, I certainly can agree that there are extenuating circumstances, so I can withdraw the aghast, but it still seems to me that spinglines should at least be tried. This is simply based on the "what if you don't have crew and have to do it yourself?" concept. I saw another dockmate the other day who pushed and pulled and yanked and crawled through his pulpit at the last minute on a Newport 30. In his case, he had plenty of room behind him to back and turn. I certainly understand prop walk, long keels, etc. (as you all know). So, given some really crazy slip setups (ours here in California are mostly just fine single or double docks, no piers and the like as you may have elsewhere), all I can suggest is to do what works for you. All the best, Stu
Dave Reason is that I think one should be able to put the boat where you want it rather than using hands, because most times I see people pushing on stanchions, which end up leaking. A dockmate had his daughter at the tiller and he pushed the boat out - it and she left, he didn't!
{This was a C25, with a very easy to manuver outboard and tiller with plenty of space, I did it all the time on mine two docks down.} In reading some of the other replies, I certainly can agree that there are extenuating circumstances, so I can withdraw the aghast, but it still seems to me that spinglines should at least be tried. This is simply based on the "what if you don't have crew and have to do it yourself?" concept. I saw another dockmate the other day who pushed and pulled and yanked and crawled through his pulpit at the last minute on a Newport 30. In his case, he had plenty of room behind him to back and turn. I certainly understand prop walk, long keels, etc. (as you all know). So, given some really crazy slip setups (ours here in California are mostly just fine single or double docks, no piers and the like as you may have elsewhere), all I can suggest is to do what works for you. All the best, StuStu- I mostly agree
Stu- you make some good points. No dispute that it's bad seamanship to let the boat leave the dock without you. I am always careful to never have crew walk out past where the beamiest part of the boat is at the dock and they can jump on, and have them hold the gunwales. Then I can complete backing out using the prop walk. But I will start thinking about how I'd leave the dock if it was just me and try that with crew aboard so a boathook will be handy on my initial attempt.
Stu- you make some good points. No dispute that it's bad seamanship to let the boat leave the dock without you. I am always careful to never have crew walk out past where the beamiest part of the boat is at the dock and they can jump on, and have them hold the gunwales. Then I can complete backing out using the prop walk. But I will start thinking about how I'd leave the dock if it was just me and try that with crew aboard so a boathook will be handy on my initial attempt.
Tight docking areas may require walking
I sympathize with you, since my situation is almost identical. First, it is important to differentiate between singlehanded situations and situations with crew. I singlehand almost all the time, in the following situation. Dock is on starboard side. To port is another boat, with dock on its port side. Behind me is about 33-35 feet of fairway width. My boat is a Catalina 30 tall rig, which is about 32 feet with its bowsprit. I need to back out to port in order to head the right way down the fairway. Prop walk should help me do this. But, in fact, the boat won't steer in reverse until there already is significant movement through the water. But by the time the boat is moving well enough to turn, there is no longer enough room to execute the turn. Meanwhile, the prevailing wind is from starboard, and it immediately wants to push my bow downwind. This what I do: On the dock, with bowline in my right hand and stern line in my left hand. The stern line bends around the aftmost dock cleat for better control. I pull the boat back out of the slip, while pulling the bow of the boat in, towards the dock. Before the boat is halfway out of the slip, it has already made 30 to 45 degrees of the necessary turn. I toss the lines aboard, step onto the boat and go back to wheel. I engage the power in reverse and complete the turn. I've been sailing for over 20 years, and I don't think anyone would think me inexperienced or lacking skill. Seamanship means doing what works in the safest way possible.
I sympathize with you, since my situation is almost identical. First, it is important to differentiate between singlehanded situations and situations with crew. I singlehand almost all the time, in the following situation. Dock is on starboard side. To port is another boat, with dock on its port side. Behind me is about 33-35 feet of fairway width. My boat is a Catalina 30 tall rig, which is about 32 feet with its bowsprit. I need to back out to port in order to head the right way down the fairway. Prop walk should help me do this. But, in fact, the boat won't steer in reverse until there already is significant movement through the water. But by the time the boat is moving well enough to turn, there is no longer enough room to execute the turn. Meanwhile, the prevailing wind is from starboard, and it immediately wants to push my bow downwind. This what I do: On the dock, with bowline in my right hand and stern line in my left hand. The stern line bends around the aftmost dock cleat for better control. I pull the boat back out of the slip, while pulling the bow of the boat in, towards the dock. Before the boat is halfway out of the slip, it has already made 30 to 45 degrees of the necessary turn. I toss the lines aboard, step onto the boat and go back to wheel. I engage the power in reverse and complete the turn. I've been sailing for over 20 years, and I don't think anyone would think me inexperienced or lacking skill. Seamanship means doing what works in the safest way possible.
Follow up
For clearification, when I say I walk the boat out I mean having all crew on board. We are docked bow in. Untie all the lines, pass the stern lines to crew standing on the side decks. Then pull the boat out of the slip by walking the stern lines forward. As the widest part of the beam passes the stern piles, place the mooring lines on the posts for easy pick up. Most of the docks I frequent only have short (1/3 to 1/2 boat length) finger piers, pushing a boat out from the dock is not an option.
For clearification, when I say I walk the boat out I mean having all crew on board. We are docked bow in. Untie all the lines, pass the stern lines to crew standing on the side decks. Then pull the boat out of the slip by walking the stern lines forward. As the widest part of the beam passes the stern piles, place the mooring lines on the posts for easy pick up. Most of the docks I frequent only have short (1/3 to 1/2 boat length) finger piers, pushing a boat out from the dock is not an option.
Ken, I agree with your definition
By "walking" the boat I meant exactly what you described. All hands on deck and simply pull the boat out into the fairway. This works great in under 10 knots of wind. We "walk" the boat into the fairway, I wiat until we drif clear of the stern pilon, and then I give her forward thrust. I find absolutley nothing inelegant or unseaman-like about this move (and we're on the first dock right by the clubhouse where everyone watches us). It's far more embarassing to run into the bulkhead or another boat. Here's the problem; when it's blowing 12 or 15 knotts, as I'm drifting out of the slip, and before I'm clear of the stern piles, the stern of the boat starts to swing to port until I'm almost perpendicular to the other slips. Since the bow hasn;t fully cleared the piles, I can;t give it forward thrust, and it's too late to give a burst of reverse at this point since that will only drive me into the boat in the slip next to mine. So, I'm left with no choise than to "walk" the boat back into the slip and tru again until I get it right (sometimes it takes three tries). So I wonder: instead of walking the boat out when it's blowing 12 or 15 knotts, shouldn't I give her a real quick and sharp thrust of reverse to propell me out of the slip and clear of the piles, but not so fat as to hit the bulkhead, then quickly flip into forward and give a sharp thrust to swing the bow clear of the piles and get her moving forward down the fairway. Your thoughts? BTW: Thanks for all the great input!
By "walking" the boat I meant exactly what you described. All hands on deck and simply pull the boat out into the fairway. This works great in under 10 knots of wind. We "walk" the boat into the fairway, I wiat until we drif clear of the stern pilon, and then I give her forward thrust. I find absolutley nothing inelegant or unseaman-like about this move (and we're on the first dock right by the clubhouse where everyone watches us). It's far more embarassing to run into the bulkhead or another boat. Here's the problem; when it's blowing 12 or 15 knotts, as I'm drifting out of the slip, and before I'm clear of the stern piles, the stern of the boat starts to swing to port until I'm almost perpendicular to the other slips. Since the bow hasn;t fully cleared the piles, I can;t give it forward thrust, and it's too late to give a burst of reverse at this point since that will only drive me into the boat in the slip next to mine. So, I'm left with no choise than to "walk" the boat back into the slip and tru again until I get it right (sometimes it takes three tries). So I wonder: instead of walking the boat out when it's blowing 12 or 15 knotts, shouldn't I give her a real quick and sharp thrust of reverse to propell me out of the slip and clear of the piles, but not so fat as to hit the bulkhead, then quickly flip into forward and give a sharp thrust to swing the bow clear of the piles and get her moving forward down the fairway. Your thoughts? BTW: Thanks for all the great input!
Re: Backing out
Carl, I have seen many boats back down the fairway and back into their slip. I don't see anything wrong with doing the opposite to get out. Control of the boat is the big issue. Do what needs to be done to control the boat, do it safely in a professional manner and who can complain. Nothing is worse than damaging your boat or someone elses because wind, current or lack of space makes it difficult to do a manuever in the "normal" way.
Carl, I have seen many boats back down the fairway and back into their slip. I don't see anything wrong with doing the opposite to get out. Control of the boat is the big issue. Do what needs to be done to control the boat, do it safely in a professional manner and who can complain. Nothing is worse than damaging your boat or someone elses because wind, current or lack of space makes it difficult to do a manuever in the "normal" way.
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