Deck Painting Calamity: What can I do now?

Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
I've tried TWICE to paint with Pettit EZ Ez Poxy2, the "fool proof" formula. Well, apparently they've never met a fool such as I. Wiped first coat off with thinner after just a 5-6 square feet because I saw it was a disaster in the making.

Took a deep, overnight breath and did a "fresh start", "first" coat today thinking I'd set myself up for success (e.g. more meticulous thinning, better access via scaffold, 2 painters in unison, etc.). But I'm very unhappy with today's results. Intermittent problems include evident brush strokes, excessive dappling in places, about 5-10% missed where no paint laid down, etc.

1) Are first coat gaps and problems OK? Can this be resolved in next coat?
2) How much "repair" can I actually do before we do a second coat? Should I treat this stage like all of the prep work up to this point; that is, just sand smooth whatever is there (my new paint, the 5-10% areas of exposed old gelcoat)?
3) Or, is this a different beast now that it has 2-part paint on it? Do I need to sand it off entirely so it can be done right (probably someone I hire at this point), for the (3rd) start?

Thank you for any help.
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
How about some pictures.
Did you wash the deck with assatone first?
Gel-coat has wax in it... You know hw water beads on a waxed car... That's what paint does on gel-coat. If you don't wash it with assatone first. A stiff brush will really help get in the textured parts.
 
Sep 2, 2013
1
Hunter 33.5 Portland, ME
Another fool in Portland, ME

Ziggler, I share your pain. I'm in the middle of a paint job on a Wilbur 34 using the same paint and having a similar experience. I chose Pettit EZ-Poxy 2 for it's durability and claimed ease of application. As with alot of these things, there is a learning curve and I am planning to give the final coat tomorrow with reasonable expectations. I have had to restart as well because I was given poor advice by the boat store 'paint expert' who said not to tip the first coat. Big mistake - air bubbles everywhere and this paint is very difficult to sand down. I had to reprime the whole thing and buy more paint. So this is what works for me:

Hull needs to be prepped in strict compliance with the instructions. Use Bio-Blue and scuff with scotch brite pad according to the instructions. Apply 1 or 2 coats of Pettit EZ prime and sand to a smooth surface. I hand sand the primer using a large tile sponge with sandpaper over it. This allows the sandpaper to follow any countours. I'm using 120-150 grit. Brush all the dust off, wipe it down, and then wipe it down with thinner, and then tack rag it.

If you go online, you will see a variety of conflicting recommendations for rolling and tipping. I was having trouble finding someone who could roll the paint evenly or find someone that could do it within my schedule and the weather window I had, so I finally gave up and decided to do it solo. So this is what seems to be working for me:

1. This paint sets up quickly. Although some instructions say thinning may not be needed, that has not worked for me. I am painting outside and I am thinning out to the max recommended which is 10% or .42 of a cup measurement to 1 quart of paint. The paint sets up fast and the thinner proved to be essential to preventing seams and keeping it wet enough until I tip it off.

2. Obviously, don't paint in the sun or right after the sun has passed. Follow the recommendations of between 9am and 4pm. I paint the port side in the morning and the starboard side in the afternoon to follow the sun.

3. Tipping this paint is absolutely essential. You will have air bubbles when you roll it on and the tipping levels off the paint. I'm using the West Epoxy System 7" foam rollers to roll the paint on. I work quickly, and roll on only 2 widths of the roller before I tip. This allows me to maintain a wet edge. Make sure you roll the paint on evenly!

4. Get the proper tipping brushes. You will read about using Badger brushes, but I am using Wooster Flawless Tipping Brushes. The 2.5 inch works best for me. I find the wider brushes harder to work with.

5. The tipping technique. Well that is like when you had your first newborn. Everyone has advice and it is all different and you have to figure out what works for you. But for me, this is now working. Some people will tell you to roll vertically and tip horizontally. That was a disaster as it piles up the paint and leaves a seam. That may work in a controlled environment, but I don't think it works outside. Tipping from top to bottom works best, especially if you are working alone as you are more likely to be able to maintain the wet edge. However, I do start by tipping side to side along the rail one brush stroke wide, and then tip the whole thing from top to bottom. That seems to help to maintain a nice finish at the top and reduces any possibility of sags. When I tip, I go pretty quickly and overlap my strokes a bit every time and keep an eye out for bubbles that might not have flattened out. Then leave it alone!!!! The key is doing small sections at a time.

6. I'm painting a 34 foot boat with a pretty large bow flare. I find that changing brushes 2 or 3 times while painting one side helps alot to get a better finish. As soon as the paint starts to dry on the bristles, drop the brush into thinner and get another one. Some tip with a dry brush others put just a bit on the tip of the brush. I use the latter technique but keep it very light.

7. Prepping for the job is very important so that you don't end up creating a seam because your wet edge is, well, no longer as wet. I have a small table that built and I move along with me that keeps the paint tray at the right height and which holds all of my extra supplies on a lower shelf. I have screwed the paint tray onto the table, ...seriously, because sometimes the wind would blow my tray away. Wear a face mask. Have an extra tray and roller handy, in case you drop it. I have foam rollers of different widths available because I have to work around splash rails. Wear gloves, but wear the light paint gloves so you can better feel your tipping action. Have 3 brushes ready to go and have 3 cups of thinner ready to deposit the brushes as you go. The brushes are expensive but they clean up well. Once you start, don't stop.

8. They recommend 2 coats. If you work quickly you should get a pretty good result. It likely won't equal a spray job, but it should be pretty good. Between coats, you can scuff up the finish with red scotch brite pads.

Good luck!
 

Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
774
Sabre 28 NH
Thanks for sharing your experience Capn Peter. I'm finally getting ready to paint my Sabre with the same product.

Ziggler, humidity & heat plays a big part on how the paint goes down & flows. You didn't mention if you primed prior to rolling paint? IMHO this is a very important step to ensure compatibility & bonding with different types of finishes.

Couple of weeks from now, I'll be wigging out too!
 
Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
All, (with special thanks to Capt. Peter):

Ok, you have given me courage and knowledge so I'll try again today. I suppose I'm learning from my mistakes, but these are painful lessons.

I'm 100% confident in my surface prep work - I meticulously did all the steps (TSP cleaning, dewaxing, sanding, acetone, tack cloth, primer wipe down, etc.). So it wasn't prep's "fault".

What was clearly my undoing yesterday was sunlight. We did it in direct sun and heat. In retrospect that terrible fact sped everything else up to a fever pitch and we worked in panicky haste, rather than with determined alacrity.

Intermission.... just saw my wife outside waiting to paint with me, so off I go. I'll report back later...
 
Mar 1, 2012
2,182
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
One point- Acetone is a VERY poor solvent to try to clean wax off with. It evaporates so quickly all it does is smear the stuff around. Bellieve it or not, a local boatbuilder cleans mold release wax using Windex with ammonia.

I was a furniture refinisher for almost 30 years, then built and painted boats.. Acetone is the wrong stuff. What ever solvent is recommended for the paint you are using, would be a MUCH better choice
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack


Sunlight and humidity are NOT allowed





i did not read how the primer was done as it is a key step ?



Roll & Tip and it is roll to lay on the correct film thickness and ONE really quick tip to POP AIR BUBBLES

you MUST only TIP it one time and let the PAINT DO ITS THING IT WILL LEVEL
 
Jun 8, 2004
853
Pearson 26W Marblehead
painting a boat

I never had much luck rolling and tipping. bubbles: uneven results etc: I have painted 3 decks in the last 30 years using easypoxy What worked for me was all brush no rollers. I do not use rollers on my bottom either They suck up too much paint
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Get the boat under some shade.... or at least the side you're working on. Wind, Sun and Humidity are you enemies! Foam roller and throw away foam brushes for tipping work for me.... Read the temperature restrictions carefully and thin accordingly to slow it down. If your edge is setting before you can tip, then you're not thinned properly and/or painting too large an area. Tip from dry area towards the previous wet edge with enough pressure to knock down the bubbles. If thinned properly and applied in the correct temperature range..... out of direct sunlight... the paint should level out to a glossy hard sheen. Hand scuff with 400 between coats.... don't sand after final coat.
 
Jul 21, 2013
333
Searching for 1st sailing boat 27-28, 34-36 Channel Islands, Marina Del Rey
@capn Peter, great details and thanks for sharing.

Wondering with the details you put into using a brush, would it have been any easier getting the equipment to spray rather use a brush?
 
Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
Acetone not right thinner

One point- Acetone is a VERY poor solvent to try to clean wax off with. It evaporates so quickly all it does is smear the stuff around. Bellieve it or not, a local boatbuilder cleans mold release wax using Windex with ammonia.

I was a furniture refinisher for almost 30 years, then built and painted boats.. Acetone is the wrong stuff. What ever solvent is recommended for the paint you are using, would be a MUCH better choice

You're quite right about not using Acetone - I knew that and was just typing too fast when I said that was what I'd used. To clarify I did use a Pettit's specialty De-Waxer before hand and then the Pettit 120 Thinner just before the paint job.
 
Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
Thank you all for the help along the way with this. I'm over the panic phase and into "grim determination" phase on this paint job. In retrospect, I will assume that what I was experiencing was just the steep learning curve dealing with 2-Part paints which are very fickle. Still, the key words were perseverance and patience and following your collective good advice. Here's what saved the day and lead to a good, successful coat. Keep in mind this is dealing with the deck, not the hull (which with it's vast open spaces is a dream compared to the nooks and crannies of the deck).

1) Don't paint in the sunlight. Big mistake that lead to the "catastrophe" mentioned in my first posting.

2) Don't be afraid to wipe off the mess (rags with 120 thinner in my case) if you know it's a failure. It's so much easier to do that than to keep going, letting it dry and having to sand it all off. Undoing the sunny day paint job took me a whole next day to remove. 2-Part is a bear to sand off. No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back.

3) Patience, patience. Work with the paint mixtures for a long time to get them right. Do the "painting on the clear piece of scrap glass" trick to sneak up on the right thinning amount. Do not skip this step. If it's wrong on the piece of glass, it will be wrong on your boat - and on your boat you've probably spent a hundred hours prepping the surface for these last 2 coats.

4) Get the boat under cover if you can. We moved from the field to our undersized shed, but it was better than an open sunny area.

5) Set up was key. My wife and I did a "dry run" before we put paint on the roller. We walked through the entire process, going around the boat step by step, before we started. We knew where we'd have to hop on the deck, when we could step on the scaffold, where the trip hazards were, when we'd have to change to smaller rollers, etc.

So, those are lessons learned from this "fool" messing around with "fool proof" 2-part paint. I thank you all for the help and true camaraderie you shared and gave me confidence to try, try again.
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
"No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back". You know, that's some damn sage advice for a lot of things..
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
I tend to jump in on threads with recounts of my experiences. Sorry.

But even when one does their best, stuff happens.

My thread similar experience was last summer when seven years after the first application of Interlux Perfection (2-part polyurethane) on the smooth sections (not the non skid) of my cabin top and deck, I did the same again. The second coat of the new project was applied too late in the afternoon so condensation that night caused an inconsistent gloss on the sloping forward section of my cabin top. Too avoid excessive sanding, each subsequent coat has to be applied within a specified period. From memory that window is not later than the Next Day.

Here I am doing the work at my berth in the San Francisco area during the summer months. Chance of unforecasted rain on any summer day is like .001%. But for my painting window, the forecast had like a 5% chance of rain for 50 miles north. Not expected at all to move south. So I went to add another coat mid-morning. Just as I was half way done, huge rain drops started to hit and disfigure the still tacky paint. And I had to keep going to maintain a wet edge. I remembered that I had a tarp down below. Just get it out to tension over the stanchions and life lines and I might be OK for the rest of the painting. What I didn't remember is that I had last used that tarp for carpentry work. When I went to open it, the prevailing wind blew the sawdust still on it right on to my paint's still tacky surface.

For several moments, I was tempted to open all my seacocks, cut the hoses and be done with my boat for good. Common sense did prevail.

The next morning I sanded smooth the best I could and applied yet another coat. Not the new car finish I was hoping. However no one seems to notice but me (photo attached).

As for the rain. Not another drop from the moment I covered my still wet job with sawdust.
 

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