De-Masted

Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
Hello,

We had some wind on Saturday night in Chicago and I lost my mast during the rain storm. See pictures for the very sad picture of the state I found her in on Sunday and the damage I had to the base of the mast.

I had two questions.

1. I have Boat U.S. insurance on the boat. The yard (Crowley's) said they think that the mast will need to be replaced. Anyone with experience with Boat U.S. have any feeling of how this may play out? I had sailed her a few times in the month she was in the water and had no problems with the rigging.

2. While at the morning do you typically leave the swing keel down for those that have them? I have been leaving mine up.

Thank you,
Michael
 

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Dec 3, 2013
169
HUNTER 29.5 PORT CHARLOTTE FL
I leave mine down moored and at the slip. I feel that it relieves pressure on the winch, cable etc., and the boat feels more stable. Only crank it up when in skinny water. Chrysler swing-keel.
 
Jul 19, 2013
186
Hunter 33 New Orleans
Hello,

We had some wind on Saturday night in Chicago and I lost my mast during the rain storm. See pictures for the very sad picture of the state I found her in on Sunday and the damage I had to the base of the mast.

I had two questions.

1. I have Boat U.S. insurance on the boat. The yard (Crowley's) said they think that the mast will need to be replaced. Anyone with experience with Boat U.S. have any feeling of how this may play out? I had sailed her a few times in the month she was in the water and had no problems with the rigging.

Call in your claim asap. Be polite and answer all questions honestly. Do not volunteer information let the company or adjuster ask the questions. Review you coverage, they will know more about it than you, you may think you are entitled to something your not so be sure you understand what you bought. They aren’t going to screw you they are going to give you what you paid for. The adjuster is your friend do not piss him off, you can always request a second adjustment if he missed something. The boatyard will work with the insurance company. I have had 2 boat totaled by hurricanes and had great service both times.
 
Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
I don't think I am worried about getting "screwed" so much as this just seems I never do well with insurance companies. Every discussion I have had since I signed up with them has made them seem like they are on my side much more than any auto insurance I have had before.

Just concerned that this is going to be the end of my first sailing season and possibly foreseeable sailing life as the new mast on D&R Marina is listed at $2.3K which comes close to what I paid for the boat and the trailer last fall.

One thing that I have seen come up is the statement "Some items are subject to depreciation" and I don't know if that was ever defined. Can't find anything on their site of what that may encompass.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Ouch. If it is covered, it is likely to be a 'constructive total loss' from the insurance companies position.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
When I had a swing-keel boat we did leave the keel down and locked when she was in the water. However, I don't really see what that has to do with your O'DAY 22, since she is a Keel/Centerboard boat, and does not have a swing-keel. I would raise the CB at least most of the way (maybe leave it down about 6" or so) to prevent damage from the constant banging back and forth of the lowered CB that almost all centerboard boats experience while not sailing. I say to leave the CB down slightly to prevent it from sticking in the totally up position, which does sometimes happen. Leaving it all the way down (or close to that) causes a lot of wear and tear on the whole CB setup, from the pivot pin to the pendant. and can even result eventually in the CB developing stress cracking and breaking off.

On a swing-keel boat (as opposed to a K/CB boat like the O'DAYs), there is a lot of potential strain on hte keel cable and winch as well as the pivot bolt wit hthe keel retracted, but that is because the typical swing-keel weighs about 400-600# compared to the 30-50# of the CB on the O'DAY K/CB boats. Swing-Keels need a heavy-duty winch to raise/lower. A centerboard as used on the O'DAY K/CB designs only needs an easy to pull line to easily adjust and raise/lower the CB.
 
Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
When I had a swing-keel boat we did leave the keel down and locked when she was in the water. However, I don't really see what that has to do with your O'DAY 22, since she is a Keel/Centerboard boat, and does not have a swing-keel. I would raise the CB at least most of the way (maybe leave it down about 6" or so) to prevent damage from the constant banging back and forth of the lowered CB that almost all centerboard boats experience while not sailing. I say to leave the CB down slightly to prevent it from sticking in the totally up position, which does sometimes happen. Leaving it all the way down (or close to that) causes a lot of wear and tear on the whole CB setup, from the pivot pin to the pendant. and can even result eventually in the CB developing stress cracking and breaking off.

On a swing-keel boat (as opposed to a K/CB boat like the O'DAYs), there is a lot of potential strain on hte keel cable and winch as well as the pivot bolt wit hthe keel retracted, but that is because the typical swing-keel weighs about 400-600# compared to the 30-50# of the CB on the O'DAY K/CB boats. Swing-Keels need a heavy-duty winch to raise/lower. A centerboard as used on the O'DAY K/CB designs only needs an easy to pull line to easily adjust and raise/lower the CB.

Then the use of swing keel is a mistake on my part for terminology and what I understand as being a swing keel.

Thank you for the input and the education.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
I have to agree with Jackdaw that you might be looking at a total constructive loss. One thing people don't look at when buying insurance is the value assigned by an insurance company. I found my value to be around 2000.00 as a stated value. I contacted the insurance company prior to moving the boat and had the policy written as a declared value which I backed up with a complete material list incurred during the restoration. Having owned an Oday 22 I can atest that something was very wrong for the mast to topple. I had mine at 95 degrees on one occassion with no ill effects. The Asym in 40 knots was a different issue but the mast suffered no damage other than the rivets tore free and the backstay 'chainplate' tore free. My stupidity for flying the thing in that kind of breeze and no fault of the boat. Check your mast for damage as it may not be as bad as you think. Mine smashed the hell out of the bow pulpit and there wasn't a scratch on the mast.
 
Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
I have to agree with Jackdaw that you might be looking at a total constructive loss. One thing people don't look at when buying insurance is the value assigned by an insurance company. I found my value to be around 2000.00 as a stated value. I contacted the insurance company prior to moving the boat and had the policy written as a declared value which I backed up with a complete material list incurred during the restoration. Having owned an Oday 22 I can atest that something was very wrong for the mast to topple. I had mine at 95 degrees on one occassion with no ill effects. The Asym in 40 knots was a different issue but the mast suffered no damage other than the rivets tore free and the backstay 'chainplate' tore free. My stupidity for flying the thing in that kind of breeze and no fault of the boat. Check your mast for damage as it may not be as bad as you think. Mine smashed the hell out of the bow pulpit and there wasn't a scratch on the mast.
I have a picture with the damage on the OP. It pinched the bottom of the mast in about an inch, and other than that there is a slight tear in the metal. Opposite side of the picture. No other damage at all to the mast than there at the base. I have my value set at $3,400 on the boat.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
Heck, cut it off a few inches and have your shrouds and stays resized. Couple of hundred for the whole shebang other than what let go to have it come down.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
Very welcome. While you're about it consider the proper hinged mast step. 106.00 from Rudy. The reason you have that damage is you are in possession of an after market mast step. A few sheet metal or pop rivets are all that fasten the mast to the step in the original setup. I also have 4 new 5/32" shrouds with 1/4-28 right hand threads with open turnbuckles at 102" long I could give you if they would help. Late onset dyslexia or something when I ordered them. Shoulda been 201" long. These are 102" from 1/4" eye to end of thread. They can be cut down with new swaged fittings if needed.
 
Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
Good advice. Thank you for the generous offer. I will wait and see what the insurance says before I do anything though.
 
Jul 19, 2013
186
Hunter 33 New Orleans
The two boats that I spoke of being totaled were both given back to me by the insurance company. One I repaired and sailed the other I sold for salvage, On the first one if had I not taken it back they would of taken 13K out of the settlement for salvage, that is the way the policy read. The other they offered and I took it as I knew I could sell it for salvage. You will have to roll with the deal you are offered and figure out how to come out on the postive side.

If you add a new mast step you can add a block under it to match the amout you cut off the mast and your stays will work.
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Its hard to tell in a picture but it looks like the sail slot is still inline. I would expect a good metal shop can put that base back in contour and weld up your crack. Then put on a new base and your back in business!
Chief
 
Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
I attached a photo of the base. It looks now that I am not in a rush there is a very light bend on the port side, but not enough that I think it would make a difference.

It does not look damaged. As long as the bottom of the mast is repaired and the standing rigging adjusted and replaced as needed I think I would be back on the water.
 

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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Now your talking Michael! If you are a decent craftsman you can probably fix the mast contour yourself. Use round stock, leverage bar, and mallet and I would think you could get 'er done! Good luck, Chief
 
Jun 3, 2004
269
Oday and Catalina O'Day 25 and Catalina 30 Milwaukee
Michael -

Have you figured out what failed that causes this to come down in the first place? While you're doing your repairs which look to be minor, you want to make sure its a one-time event that isn't repeated. You definitely don't want this coming down again, especially if people are on the boat. If you conclude that the mast-step is the reason for the failure, then think about an alternative design

If you do have to cut-off any of the base of the mast, consider lifting the base under the mast-step instead of shortening the stays. My recollection from my 222 was that the boom was low enough already. Joe on Trinkka did a similar repair on his mast albeit for other reasons. Unfortunately we lost Joe last year but his albums remain on the site (http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/album.php?albumid=372&page=3) and the albums and his posts are a wealth of information for small boat owners.

Good luck,

Dave
s/v Lagniappe
O'Day 25
 
Oct 13, 2013
182
Wayfarer Mark I GRP Chicago
OdayDave,

From what I can see the failure started with starboard lower shroud. It snapped right at the eye base of the fitting. That was then following by the port shroud's upper turnbuckle failing on the port side. I am hopefully getting the information from the yard today on repairs/replacement costs and they might be able to tell me more. The insurance company's surveyor was out yesterday and their report is due next week which may have more information.

I will need new shrouds rigged no matter the outcome with repairs. So the only changes to length would be the backstay and then the roller furling would have to be adjusted. The boom is low so the examples you sent from the Trinka would make the most sense and save the work on the backstay and roller furling. The backstay I would want to replace as it is as old as the shrouds are. The roller furling is only two years old so avoiding changing that would be great.