Cuba

[Scott T-Bird]

Are you making a leap?

Warning though, our American hands are bloody. Keith

There are instances all over the world where America, and many other foreign powers, turn a blind eye to atrocity because of self-interests. Batista was anti-communist, and for that, America tolerated a lot of abhorrent behavior without actively seeking to displace him. His history with America went back to the 30's when he led the overthrow of pro-America Cuban government. America was uneasy about him from the very start and worked to try to mitigate his power, but in the end Cuba goes it's own way, often in conflict with our desires.

I agree that Batista was brutal, but does America really have responsibility for this? (Maybe we did - but I'd have to learn how) Many people seem to think that America is this omnipresent power and they bestow all atrocity on our hands without acknowledging that there are some really bad characters out there and we don't have the ability or desire to police the world. It just makes it easy to blame America (well, we blame a particular faction of American politics) when we don't take action against every despotic act in the world.

 

[Delezynski]

A television won't allow that. Travel will.

Television is a great propaganda tool, however.

It's funny, when we lived in Mexico (for almost 5 years) almost every single person who wanted to speak English with us, said they learned it from TV. When we were there credit cars seemed to be a big new thing (for good or bad?? ), thanks to commercials shown on US, then Mexican TV.

When we were in China, (how can we visit China and not Cuba) we saw may US TV shows and talking (behind the barn) with our young tour guide, he knew how to watch US TV shows in English, UN-cencered . He said he knew how to (and almost all of his friends) knew how to "jump over" the Internet wall and see anything we could.

When we went to Vietnam (sort of trying to heal for me) TV was also a BIG thing. Once more, behind the barn talk with a tour guide at a "Government run museum" he admitted that most if not all of the display signs were BS!!

The more people can travel, the better we all become.

Just my view.

If your interested, I have a video (almost on hour long) of an interview with a Vietcong general. It did NOT help me heal. I chose not to post that on Youtube. :naughty:

Greg

 

[RichH]

The More People Can Travel, The Better We All Become.

Bravo

 

[emergpa1]

....There are instances all over the world where America, and many other foreign powers, turn a blind eye to atrocity because of self-interests..... I agree that Batista was brutal, but does America really have responsibility for this? (Maybe we did - but I'd have to learn how) Many people seem to think that America is this omnipresent power and they bestow all atrocity on our hands without acknowledging that there are some really bad characters out there and we don't have the ability or desire to police the world. ......

Nope, I didn't say that. Nor do I think that. All I'm saying is that there is always more to the story than meets the eye. No nation or government is perfectly good nor expected to be. My point is, it's time to end the embargo. We trade with china. Cuba is our neighbor. Let's engage. Try something different. Except for having to say what I didn't say, but you implied I said, I repeat myself. ;-) As I said, subject seems exhausted

 

[Scott T-Bird]

But you did say "warning though, our American hands are bloody". I react to that because I think there is a distinction between actively being engaged in atrocity, as Batista was, and turning our back on it, as we did. We can look back and say that we were wrong to look past the atrocity, but, as far as I know, it's a leap to say our hands are bloody.

 

[Eddie7045]

Emergpa1, exausted ? Naw, it's good until the first

scheduled flight from Miami to Havana. Then it'll die.

 

[emergpa1]

But you did say "warning though, our American hands are bloody". I react to that because I think there is a distinction between actively being engaged in atrocity, as Batista was, and turning our back on it, as we did. We can look back and say that we were wrong to look past the atrocity, but, as far as I know, it's a leap to say our hands are bloody.

ok, ok,I was just taking dramatic poetic license. Hyperbole. Dang, somebody needs to go sailing.

 

[justsomeguy]

ok, ok,I was just taking dramatic poetic license. Hyperbole. Dang, somebody needs to go sailing.

While you're forward, clear that lazy sheet from the hatch, okay?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Yeah, well ...

Dang, somebody needs to go sailing.

Don't rub it in! :cry: not for a few months!

 

[shemandr]

I did yesterday. Bone chilling 33 degrees with snow flurries. The air was that North Atlantic Maritime air mass that can take the heat out of a nuclear reactor. Damp, cold and nasty. I tried to post a pic but was unable. Nevertheless it was a futile gesture against the impending winter and celebration of the Winter Solstice. It gets better from here.

 

[Delezynski]

Did you see the 60 min on Cuba just now?

VERY interesting!!!!!

Greg

 

[emergpa1]

While you're forward, clear that lazy sheet from the hatch, okay?

yes sir!

 

[emergpa1]

Did you see the 60 min on Cuba just now? VERY interesting!!!!! Greg

thanks, you can each it here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-day-for-cuban-american-relations/

 

[Chief RA]

Greg: Watched the Cuba 60 min presentation and it was interesting and somewhat informative. Sad too. I will never forgive Kennedy for leaving those men to die on the beaches. The people of Puerto Rico were in a state of shock. Chief

 

[Delezynski]

Greg: Watched the Cuba 60 min presentation and it was interesting and somewhat informative. Sad too. I will never forgive Kennedy for leaving those men to die on the beaches. The people of Puerto Rico were in a state of shock. Chief

That WAS bad. And I do understand hard feelings, but when is it time to move forward, not just on this, but on so many different aspects of the world.

Like I said, it seemed VERY strange for us to be able to visit China, yet be banned from Cuba.
We visited Vietnam (HARD for me) and found many things to wonder about.
And how is it that we (the US people) spend billions of $ to US Indians for an admitted atrocity that took place before our grand parents (or there parents) were born? Many no longer even speak there native language! HOW LONG DO WE PAY?

I could go on and on, but these are my top three. :cry:

My payback, my way of dealing with it, is to visit, get to know, and understand others.

Greg

 

[group9]

Am anxiously awaiting to see if sailing to Cuba will now be allowed. Having been at the university of Miami back in 1961 i recall all my fraternity brothers stories of the pre Castro Cuba. I would love to make the trip next year and see for myself.

Sailing to it will be allowed. Apparently trying to sail from it is still frowned upon.

The day before President Barack Obama announced to the world his administration’s unilateral decision to normalize trade and diplomatic relations with Cuba, Cuba’s Coast Guard sunk a small, rickety boat full of refugees attempting to flee to America.
Among the 32 people on the boat seeking to escape the Communist island dump were two children, the Miami Herald reports.
“We were screaming and crying for help as the boat was sinking. But they ignored us,” said Masiel González Castellano, who was on the boat. “Instead, they continued charging against our boat. Some people dove in the water and others stayed aboard as the boat sank.”
González believes that members of Cuba’s Coast Guard were aware that children were on the boat when they sunk it.
One of the children was the woman’s eight-year-old son.

 

[Eddie7045]

group9, either you are misquoting the Miami Herald

or they got it wrong, anyway the President can normalize relations through executive action but he cannot "normalize" trade as lifting the embargo can only be done by Congress and then signed by the President. A "unilateral normalizing of trade by Obama" is impossible and, of course, did not happen.

 

[group9]

or they got it wrong, anyway the President can normalize relations through executive action but he cannot "normalize" trade as lifting the embargo can only be done by Congress and then signed by the President. A "unilateral normalizing of trade by Obama" is impossible and, of course, did not happen.

I was quoting the Herald. And, I'd agree with you if he hadn't already changed immigration policy by just setting new standards on what laws will be enforced and which ones won't. If no is going to prosecute you for trading with Cuba, then trading with Cuba is okay, whether the law has actually been changed or not.

 

[Eddie7045]

"I'd agree with you if". You don't like the facts so

you change them at will. That's convenient. I rest my case.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

I'm about half thru reading chuckbear's blog on southern coast of cuba.

I envision, someday, you will be able to stop at any port and visit. without the strict signing out and into the next port. -once the Cuban citizens have free travel. - I think that will come in time. (as it stands today, no reason to go by boat... less restrictions if you fly. IMHO.)

fwiw, I work with several people in So Fla that regularly visit Cuba. some legally.

There is an underground sneaker net of USB drives (and cd's/dvd's) that brings news and video's to the people. and they do watch and listen to USA tv an radio. -with varying degrees of success.

In general, the last 10 years have been better for the cuban population. they are allowed (like china) to engage in some government approved trade with tourists. (rates regulated, and taxed). I see more and more of this in the future.


One thing go keep in mind is how Cuba ranks with the other Caribbean nations. -one of the tops in education, technology, medicine, etc.


I also think the US being in a position to influence a collapsing nation is better than sitting on the sidelines.