Cruising family on C-30 need advice

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Rick Moore

I purchased a 1981 Catalina 30 standard rig with a 5411 Universal diesel and deep fin about 5 years ago. It has been a fantastic boat. For the past couple of years, it has been in a constant state of upgrade. I am outfitting it for a liveaboard cruise with my wife and 2 small children. We will be leaving Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada, in June 2001, traversing the Great Lakes, the St. Lawrence seaway, and the Atlantic East coast, spending the winter in Florida/Bahamas and returning via the inland route by September 2002. One of my more recent modifications may be of interest to people sailing deep draft boats in shallow areas. I shortened the keel by 12" and ordered a set of 'torpedo bulbs' from Mars Metals in Ontario. Alot of the harbours and anchorages in our sailing area are very shallow (as are they in the Intracoastal Waterway, and the Bahamas), And we had spent our 1st 4 years bumping into things, getting stuck in harbour entrances, and suffering a shorter sailing season due to the low water levels in our lakes by the end of August. This modification turned out fantastic! The boat still sails beautifully, and I haven't noticed any more heeling than before. Everyone said I would probably suffer more leeway, which I may have, but in our cruising club races, I was still hanging in right where I was last year! Moving on the the interior, it has been completely redone, top to bottom, including converting an L-shaped dinette to a U-shaped one. This new seat at the forward bulkhead gave me a perfect place to store my battery bank of 4-6V batteries in series-parallel, without offsetting the balance of the boat. I converted the old nav station (where the batteries were) to a very nice fridge/freezer run by a 12V holding plate system. I installed a microwave in the galley, and a tv/vcr over the starboard settee, all run by a heart freedom 15 inverter with a link 1000 control. I added an airmarine wind generator, which does a great job in as little as 8-10 knots of steady breeze. I plan to add a high output alternator w/3stage regulator this winter (any recommendations?), and a pair of solar panels next year (again, any input would be appreciated). 2 years ago we installed a new dodger/bimini with lexan windows, and a completely screened in enclosure with zip-up windows. The framework is all 1" S.S., so I was thinking of making a mount on top of the bimini for the solar panels. The backstay is the only thing that will be directly over the panels. One concern I have is that this 5411 engine is barely adequate to keep the boat at speed as it is. Add wind and waves, and I think you know what I am up against. I plan to add an adjustable field control to the new alternator, so I can recover power when needed, but was wondering if there are any upgrades or modifications available to increase power even slightly. My next concern relates to heavy weather sail configurations. I am experienced in 35-40 knots, but this cruise will take us around Newfoundland and down the East coast to the caribbean area. I am quite sure I will be running into lots of bad weather. I have the original sails, but they are of no use in heavy weather. The new sails I purchased are a matched set of Sobstad Platinum Genesis (3+1 batten main, and 153% Genoa on the original Harken furler). The main has 2 reef points, which I installed single line reefs back to inside the enclosure. This works very well, but still leaves me with about 120sq ft of sail on the 2nd reef (is this too much for sailing above 40knots?) The Genoa can be rolled up to about a 135%, but anything more results in poor shape. I am trying to decide between adding an intermediate forestay (which I feel would have to be reinforced inside the v-berth by a stay connecting the deck mount to a bracket on the bow below the anchor locker), or just using a 100% on the furler. My standing rigging is reaching the limits of adjustability due to stretch, so I have begun replacing it a wire at a time. I am converting it to 1/4" all around with new swages and turnbuckles. All running rigging is brand new pre-stretch polyester with all rope spectra halyards. Sorry about the length of my inquiry, but if anybody reading has any recommendations, especially about the seaworthiness of this type of boat for this type of trip, they will be gladly accepted. If anyone is interested in any of my modifications, I have pictures I can email you. Thanks for your time Rick Moore rick.moore@sympatico.ca
 
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Gene Foraker

liveaboard for 4 in a C-30

Hi, Rick I owned a C-30 for 13 years and loved the boat dearly. I am amazed at how much you have already spent on upgrades, but maybe you should rethink and trade up to a larger boat. For all of the money you will have invested, you could start out with a boat more suited to livaboard with a family. Repowering alone, could cost up to $10,000. I have some friends here in Ohio who sold out and updated their beloved Hunter 35 with much cuising equipment such as a $5000 custom pullpit for anchors and such. They had over $110,000 US into the boat and sailed down to the Carribean last year. They have finally traded it for a Whitby 42 which is the boat they should have started with and could have had with the same investment. For example, although your torpedo keel is 12" shorter, it will not "plow" though soft mud or such as well as the fin and will get stuck more easily. You did not pick up a whole foot of useable draft. By the way, you could avoid the long north route of the St.Lawrence and pick up the Erie canal at Buffalo and go straight to the Hudson river. You can then head North as far as you wish with good cruising grounds.
 
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Rick Moore

Clarify for Gene

Hi Gene. I think I need to clarify a couple of things for you. Of course everyones first interest would be to buy a bigger boat, and we looked seriously at that 2 years ago before I began upgrading this one. Problem is, dreaming is cheap, and the boats aren't. That next step up to a 34-36 footer in Canada starts at $90-100 000, almost double what we have now. We are 33 years old with 2 kids, 1 and 3 years old. So, the option was, do we buy the bigger boat and stay home to make the payments, or do we stick with the boat we have now that's paid for, and make the trip. And don't forget, just because you can buy a bigger boat for the same price as mine with upgrades, doesn't mean that boat is equipped to liveaboard. I may have spent money on this boat to make it comfortable, but most of it was just my own hard work, and I certainly didn't spend $40 000. The other issue I feel I should address, is that I certainly would not have cut my keel if I didn't feel that I was going to gain something. In fact, we gained a tremendous amount. I certainly don't go looking for 4 foot shoals now, any more than I went looking for 5 foot shoals then. But what I did gain was the ability to use my boat for an additional 6-8 weeks per year. Also, we spend alot of our time anchored out near beaches, something we will do a lot down south as well, and I can tell you that with 2 small kids, the ability to step off the back of the boat in 4 1/2' of water and help the kids down while standing instead of half-drowning, is a tremendous advantage in our books.. in fact, we had our best season ever since owning the boat, and it was largely contributed to that one modification. I hope this helps you understand my position, but feel free to offer any more suggestions. Thanx Rick Moore
 
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patrick e. boole

jib

check the current issue of practicle sailer. he said that what he did wrong on the roller furler was to have a large 155 geona. after many thousand miles of cruising he opted for a 110 instead.
 
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patrick e. boole

keel

i can appreciate your keel redo. you will find more negative info when it comes to the keel. i have a wing keel and i can't tell you how much bad press i received before i purchased the boat. just to put one of the rumors to rest. i can point just as high as with my 27 fin keel. ihave found that the storage of the 30 is much to be desired. i would really love to hear a forum on creating food and equipt. storage on the 30 for the cruising mind.
 
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Gene Foraker

Sorry if I was harsh

Maybe I was grumpy the other night. Like I said, I really did love the C-30. I understand the depth problem in the Great Lakes too, it made me upgrade to a new wing keel boat. (I've got to blame the new C-36 on something.) Anyway, what I meant to say was that my fin keel was pretty easy to get unstuck from a grounding while my new wing keel will be much harder to get off. Your keel is not a wing, but not a fin and will be a little harder to get off from a grounding. I have heard that your keel costs around $4000, your boat is probably a bit underpowered, you may need new rigging and other upgrades. There comes a point that it would be better to go to a different boat than put in a lot of money. I don't really think a used 34 or 36 would cost double what you have now. Maybe a "dream boat" would, but one of similar age and condition should maybe be an extra $20,000. (That is selling price, not asking price.) Add up the improvements you plan and need and the difference narrows. I think the C-30 can do what you plan, but a bigger boat will give you comfort, storage and tankage you can use. Whatever you decide, I envy your dream and hope you don't give it up. It is certainly better to go in a small boat than not at all. Gene
 
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Jonathan

Storage Space on C-30

Dear Rick, My girlfriend and I live aboard our Catalina 30 year round, near the inner harbour of Baltimore. I am no expert on anything, but I am learning alot as I go along. We have lived aboard now for 1 year and are headed into our second winter aboard. Like you we plan to take our boat on a one year cruise and we have been gearing up with that purpose in mind. Before I forget let me extend to you an invitation to stop by Baltimore on your way south and when you get here, look me up, you have a friend in Baltimore. My location on the Chesapeake Bay afforded me the oppertunity to atend the Catalina East Coast Rondezvous in Solomons Island MD. I met many great people who sail our boat(C-30) including Frank Buttler who manufactures it. I tell you this to assure you that almost any cruising grounds that you may examine, world wide, a Catalina 30 in some configuration will be there or has been there. I met people there that seemingly have done everything concieveable in this boat. For what you are planning to do, the boat you own is more than capable of doing it in comfort. Planning and preparation are the essential ingredients to any cruise, and it sounds like you have already put in plenty of both. Inspect your boat like a surveyor would. Replace things that need to be. Never compromise on safety. And then GO! Pay no attention to the nay sayers. This is like a flag to my personal inexperience which pretty much nullifies my advice, but I'll post this story anyway. The short version is that I got caught in a gail and tried running for safety. I tried to make an inlet at a low and falling tide in 5 foot swells. The bottom had shifted and I ran aground. I tried but could not power my way off. I got an anchor out and then settled in to wait for the tide to change. With each swell the boat rose and slamed on the bottom. The rig shook and rattled. Things fell from there shelves. I thought she would braek apart. six and a half hours later she floated. When i got back to port I had the boat hauled and had the hull inspected. The keel was intact, no damage to the keel bolts, no damage to the hull. I hope you will not be treating your C-30 like this. But I assure you that if mother nature blows a nasty surprise your way, the vessel you have choosen can take it. I am sure you already know that the prudent mariner stands in awe of the mighty power of mother nature and never willing forces confrontation with her. Having this in mind, you will pick reasonable weather windows, cross the gulf stream swiftly and at right angles and err on the side of caution. You will consult the pilot charts and cruising guides and the incidental weather that comes your way can be handled comfortably. Expand YOUR confidence, experience and know how and that will give the ability to captain her safely. But more likely than not the boat will outperform you. But DO NOT listen to the bigger boat theorist, and I know that there are many of them out there. Go, go GO! Let the winds set you free. I live in a marina filled with bigger "blue water" boats that never leave there slips. Boats that become a liability instead of an asset. On the other hand, a friend of mine just spent the summer in the Carribean on a 32 footer. It was reasonably priced, well within his price range and meticulously maintained and upgraded where needed. Well I spent more time writing this than I wanted. But next time I'll share some of my modifications that will add lots of extra storage space. as well as some other goodies. I hope that i have given you encouragement to press on because what awaits you is glorious. Jonathan
 
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LaDonna Bubak - Planet Catalina

Great posts, guys!

Jonathon, your post was right on as was Gene's. Sorry, don't know much 'bout wing keels but if they work for you, great! Before heading out on a long cruise, the most important factor is upgrading ALL safety equipment: running/standing rigging, sails, thru-hulls, etc. Anything that you depend on to keep you alive, in other words. You absolutely can't skimp on these things. Do you need radar? Well, maybe that isn't as important as new halyards or rigging. The C30 is a great boat. Outfitted well, she could serve for many, many years but Gene has a point. If you're going to end up spending $20K on refitting her, it might be prudent to think about selling her for, say $35 & spending $55K on one all ready to go. Just something to keep in mind and consider when budgeting. Storage space? I've seen a really cool idea, which you may have already done. Rob added one of those cloth, zippered "closets" to the aft berth right under the companionway. This left a nice sized "quarter berth" & used the space under the cockpit which is a pretty tight squeeze for a person anyway. He just zapped a few screws in and voila! TONS of clothes storage. Another idea is to a store called "Storables" (I think). They have plastic storage containers in every conceivable size & shape. You might check out Ferenc Mate's "A Finely Fitted Yacht". Chock full of great ideas to upgrade your boat to it's fullest capacity. Have fun & keep the dream alive! LaDonna
 
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Rick Moore

Thanks Everyone.

I really appreciate all the input I've been getting, both in responses here, and email from people reading my letter. I think everyone is still wondering why I would put so much into an older 30, but really, I just love the boat. I don't see the need to go to a larger boat that costs even more to maintain, at least, not at this point in my life. Sure, if we like the cruising life once we've sampled it for a year, we'll rethink. I'm just one of those people who loves to tinker and reinvent things in my own way. I get very bored in the winter time when the boat is 'high'n'dry', so I spend a lot of time taking things apart, refinishing, modifying, installing new systems, etc.. I've always been one to look at things for what they could be, instead of what they are... that's why I bought a fixer-upper. I now know this boat inside and out, every fitting, every wire, every piece of gear has been removed, improved and reinstalled. The gate valves have been replaced with bronze sea-cocks, and 90% of all hoseclamps have been replaced with compression fittings on proper polytubing (our family business is water treatment and purification). All safety systems on board are new and in excess of 'recommended minimum requirements', with my 2 kids on board, I don't like to take any unnecessary chances. I also did the same thing with my 'quarterberth' as you described. We removed the middle cushion and used removable plastic storage bins that gave us a ton of space for food and clothes. The rest of the berth is still huge for my 3 year old. The old ice box is now a food locker that can swallow lots of cans or dry goods, there is also a huge amount of unaccessable space under the V-berth that's just crying out for a door to access it thru. We put shelves in the hanging locker to increase the available space there, as we normally put wet things in the port cockpit locker. One thing I would like an opinion on, is what the hell did Catalina have in mind when they gave us this emergency tiller that won't work with a pedestal installed? Has anyone come up with a 'useable' alternative? Also, LaDonna, in response to your question about radar... I pondered that one for a long time, as I have quite a few friends who have done the St. Lawrence to Newfoundland trip in the springtime. Fog and icebergs are still a big problem that time of year, and anyone who had radar won't sail without it anymore. I decided to splurge, so I bought a Raytheon Pathfinder, but before people start calling me names again, you should know that anytime I install one of these 'fancy' accessories (radar, windmill, solar, etc) I always look to make them easily removable with little or no indication of them every having been there. That will make them easy to transfer should we decide to upgrade the boat. Judging by some of the emails I've been getting, there must be a good market for freshwater boats down south, and this 30 hasn't seen saltwater yet. For now though, we'll keep plugging along in our remodelled 30 and see how it goes. I hope everyone will keep offering their opinions and hello's, they are all very much appreciated. Sincerely Rick Moore rick.moore@sympatico.ca
 
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Rick Moore

For anyone who's interested..

I posted a few pictures of 'Reflections' in the owners photo gallery. I uploaded one that shows the new keel I outfitted last spring. The cost of a keel job can be quite high, but I happen to live around the corner from Mars Metals, and aside from casting the bulbs, did the whole job myself. The actual cutting of the original keel was done at liftout, so no haulout fees were necessary. I alternated 2 chainsaws to prevent overheating, and made the cut perfectly in less than 30 minutes. Then the crane that lifted out the boat picked up the chunk and put it in the truck, no charge. In the spring, I picked up the 2 bulb halves, and with the help of 5 friends, we put re-bars thru the pre-drilled holes and lifted them to the platform I built at the base of the keel. Once lined up, we drilled the holes thru and bolted them on, the whole procedure start to finish took less than 4 hours. The rest was all filling, fairing, sanding and painting which accounted for about 10 more hours. I found the job to be very easy, but organization and pre-preparation for any possible problems is a must. I spent months thinking about what could possibly go wrong and had all necessary tools and supplies at hand just in case. Doing the whole job myself cost me about $2800Can (approx $2000US) and I feel we got good value for the investment.
 
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Jonathan

Emergency Tiller

Cut the emergency tiller handle about 2 1/2 inches and sand it round and smooth. It's not much of a fulcrum (sp) but it is better than being completely unserviceable. I'm pressed for time, so LATER. Jonathan
 
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