Cruiser under 25' ?

[Sumner]

I cruised on a Cal25 for 10 years, even lived aboard for a summer. The thinking there is you're rarely actually STANDING down below, so what's important is "sitting room", and there's lots in a flat-top like a Cal25!...........druid

I agree, our boat has a pop-top to give 6 feet of head room, but if it is cold we don't put it up and don't miss it. In a 24-26 foot boat if you are below you probably are sitting. Another advantage with the smaller cabin is if you sail in under 50 deg. weather and stay aboard all night it is a lot warmer down in that little cabin with no heat or some heat. We've stayed in ours overnight when there was ice in the cockpit and it wasn't that bad.

And I'm personally not a keen fan of water ballast - I feel it's not really ballast at all, since water doesn't weigh more than water. But again, most "trailerable" boat have that, like the Hunter 26. And I'm sure SOMEONE's gonna mention a Mac26...........druid

This 'SOMEONE' won't mention how much they like their crumby old Mac 26S, but they will provide you with a link.......

http://h260.com/water_ballast/water_ballast_index.html

.... to a site that explains how water ballast does and can work if you want to take the time to read it or you can just go on hating 'water ballast' boats. Fine with us as we are happy with our ,

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[BobM]

Seaward 25

Seaward 25 may be the ticket.

http://www.sailingmagazine.net/boat-test/484-seaward-25 has a nice review. 5' 9" quoted as head room. 25 may be okay, but the older 23's are tiny inside.

 

[Ross]

Re: Seaward 25

Ideally for me a cruising boat has a large interior and a small cockpit. My Islander had an 8 foot long cockpit and all of the seating was low enough that the helmsman had to stand to see over the deck.

 

[druid]

I agree, our boat has a pop-top to give 6 feet of head room, but if
http://h260.com/water_ballast/water_ballast_index.html

.... to a site that explains how water ballast does and can work if you want to take the time to read it or you can just go on hating 'water ballast' boats. Fine with us as we are happy with our ,

I've read the article (on a Hunter 26 website - that's unbiased! ), analyzed the free-body diagrams, seen it in action, and still hate it. The trouble with their analysis is where they're measuring GZ - it should be radial from the CB to measure righting moment around CB. Water ballast does provide SOME righting moment: more than air, less than fibreglass, way less than lead.

It does allow for a very light trailerable boat, I just wouldn't want to be knocked down in a boat with water ballast.

druid

 

[walt]

Just wanted to point something out about water ballast..

If you sail where a keel can hit stuff or get stuck, a swing keel is nice - but if you allow it to free rotate, it can be dangerous in a knock down as it can swing up violently and damage things and as it swings, it also changes the self righting moment of the boat. Some swing keel boats are not self righting with the keel up.

But with water ballast, there is no safety risk of letting a swing centerboard free swing. The boat is self righting as long as you have the water ballast in (I have personally tested this in a knock down). This actually ends up being a nice safety feature if you sail where you can hit stuff underwater (like Colorado where lake levels go up and down, trailering to different lakes, etc. The swing centerboard is very tolerant to hitting stuff, even a complete grounding - usually no problem.

Water ballast is not moron proof however.. as you have to make sure the ballast is full before you sail..

 

[Sumner]

.....It does allow for a very light trailerable boat, I just wouldn't want to be knocked down in a boat with water ballast. ...druid

I appreciate the fact that you have read about water ballast. Just in case someone is looking at a MacGregor 26 S or D I would like them to a least read the following thread and consider owners experiences in being knocked down in a water ballast boat so they have some perspective to consider along with your feelings about these boats....

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/macgregor/index.cgi/read/42776

I have no argument that a boat with a lead keel has an advantage in extreme weather/sea conditions and would never consider a major ocean passage in our boat, even though it has been done........

http://lbucko.tripod.com/index.html

....but for us landlocked in the high desert it has given us some great experiences on water and the freedom to explore a lot of different areas that we couldn't with a lead keel boat. We have been in some less than ideal situations with it and it has been a predictable safe boat.

Which water ballast boats have you sailed on?

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[RichBone]

After sailing my Rhodes-22 for several years I am ready to move up to a boat that I can cruise more comfortably with. My basic requirements are standing head room ( not a pop top) additional storage, preferably tiller steering Trailerable ( if only to take out to do the bottom and move to the hard when hurricane approaches) and under 25'. All thoughts are appreciated. Thanks...

>>ron<<
S/V Serenity
Gulfport, FL

What is standing headroom for you?

Rich

 

[higgs]

Decks are for standing. Cabins are for sitting.

 

[Ross]

The Brittish answer to standing headroom is"go on deck".

 

[higgs]

Re the Mac: For inland lakes this boat may fit the bill. For more demanding bodies of water it just is not rugged enough. We saw on the forum last summer about an older Mac that lost her rudder in heavy seas on Lake Ontario. The consensus was the rudder was just not heavy enough for the demands. Macs are smaller lake boats or day sailors on the big water.

 

[Sumner]

Re the Mac: For inland lakes this boat may fit the bill. For more demanding bodies of water it just is not rugged enough. We saw on the forum last summer about an older Mac that lost her rudder in heavy seas on Lake Ontario. The consensus was the rudder was just not heavy enough for the demands. Macs are smaller lake boats or day sailors on the big water.

Do you know which model that was? I'd be interested in reading the thread.

A lot of Mac owners replaced their factory rudders with Ida Sailor rudders (aftermarket rudder) and the way some of those were made, the early models had failures. The design was changed and that is not the case for the newer Ida Sailor rudders for the S and D. I'll about bet money that was the case. If so it wasn't due to the boat itself from the factory not being rugged enough. We have an Ida Sailor rudder on our boat (latter model) and love it.

Now saying that I wouldn't want to be out on Lake Ontario in heavy seas in any boat that size or smaller. It wasn't meant to be sailed in those conditions. I can say that there are lots of Macs sailing the Great Lakes with no problems and happy owners.

I've read everything I can find on them and yes I've read of early Ida Sailor rudder failure, but have never heard of a rigging or boat hull failure for the S an D model.

I have read about other boats also loosing their rudders, but those seem to go unnoticed ,

c ya,

Sum

 

[higgs]

There are plenty of 25 footers I would be comfortable with in heavy seas. I had an Eastwind 24 I used to take out often in heavy seas 6 or 7 footers. There are plenty of Macs on the great Lakes and I would have no concern sailing one out there. I would be concerned in bad storms or conditions putting a lot of strain on the boat. A Cal 25 or a Seaward or a Flicka can handle pretty much any conditions they would encounter -key words being pretty much.

That said, the above boats may not be best for everyone's use, while a Mac might be juss the ticket.

 

[Warren Milberg]

A final thought on headroom. Famous designer Herreshoff was once quoted as saying that "the interior of a boat only has 3 functions. Eating, sleeping, and making love. None of which require standing headroom..."

 

[Ron20324]

Famous designer Herreshoff was once quoted as saying that "the interior of a boat only has 3 functions. Eating, sleeping, and making love. None of which require standing headroom..."

Herreshoff just didn't know all the positions. (someone had to say it

 

[myerssl]

Helms 24

This is a boat with 8'10" beam and 6' of head room in the cabin. It does have a fixed keel (4'2") but is very stable on the coast. I've had her out in 6' to 8' seas and 25 - 30 knot winds and she has done admirably, (maybe I got a little wet), and was always under control.

If you can find one in good condition, it may serve your needs.