Crazy Idea - or Great idea?

[colemj]

You don't mention where the boat is located, but sounds like the Georgian Bay or North Channel area. I cruised this area out of Saginaw Bay for many years on a 26' boat.

Going up to Sault St. Marie is nuts. Just forget that point altogether. As for customs and immigration, you would use the ROAM/CPB app, which can be used anywhere - not just points where physical offices are located. If you need a physical office, then they exist at Rogers City and Presque Isle, one of which would likely be your natural entry point from Canada anyway. There is one in Alpena too, but that is a long sail into that bay.

If the boat is up near Drummond Island, then Rogers City and Presque Isle are just 30-35nm away. A day hop, and from RC/PI, it is day hops all the way down to Saginaw Bay. Pretty nice day hops too, as each stopping point has areas of interest where you might spend a day or two visiting.

If the boat is down near Tobermory, then for sure spend a week or two in the North Channel and work your way up to Cockburn or Drummond Island to cross to the US side.

Where you are buying is a great place to cruise with a boat. Maybe plan a long month there before bringing it home.

As for worries and spares, you won't be more than a few hours sail away from anything or anywhere, and every hop on the MI side will find you anything you need.

Mark

 

[Joe]

Do you think the 350 mile Lake Huron circle tour would be foolhardy?

Absolutely NOT. It's a GREAT idea!!!!
You have way more experience than most of these YouTube cruisers had when they bought a boat and immediately headed out to far places.... so... don't sell yourself short. Don't spend all your time getting ready to get ready.... or pretty soon age 60 will be an unfulfilled memory. You certainly don't need any sailing lessons. Big sailboats are much easier to sail than small ones... the lines are just thicker and they don't stop as fast. Getting used to a motor will be your most challenging thing... perhaps finding an instructor in the boat's location to show you the rigging, docking and motoring basics. 2 or 3 hours should be enough. Get a copy of the John Rousemanier's Annapolis Book of Seamanship and start reading through it.. Pick up the Don Casey book and a few others that will give you some mechanical references... But don't spend more than a week putting this little library together... You can read what you need. Docking and anchoring will be a snap to learn.... If the boat breaks... then PERFECT it's an opportunity to learn... because when you go cruising you need to know your boat and know how to fix things... at least know where to get the answers... so... perhaps you might invest in a Starlink rig to give you internet access, but heck, you'll probably be within wifi range most time. So....Go For It. Or...... call ME... and I'll fly out and crew for you part of the trip (or all of it).... at my expense. Sounds like fun. In any case, I encourage you to cast aside any negativity. You already know you love sailing

 

[Project_Mayhem]

As for docking, I had a boat with both an outboard and an unreliable inboard. The difference was night and day. Sooooooo much more control, response and stopping power with the inboard

 

[shemandr]

Lots of good advice here.
All I'll add is that, yes your wife deserves a comfortable cabin. She's stuck with the meager accommodations of your trailer sailer for years. And she's still willin'!
My rule is that if your spouse wants a bigger boat, run don't walk to buy one. And I agree that if you can sail a small boat you will find sailing a larger boat easy.

 

[dLj]

I bought my boat in the islands and imported it to the US. The import duty is only 1%. I used an import agent so I wouldn't screw up the paperwork (it’s time consuming for a neophyte to understand) and it cost about $800 US for the agent. You might need to post a customs bond. Agent can advise. Your engine(s) must have EPA certification/classification plates on them and you need to have photos of those and engine serial number plates. (Maybe certain older engines are exempt but you need to look into it. I’m sure you can’t import 2-stroke engines of any age.).
Edit: I think you might need to bring it into a port of entry that has a customs office serving that port. Again, ask your import agent. I brought mine into Ft Lauderdale and I remember the agent said that makes it easier “because they do a lot of these” (but I never asked why specifically). The import agent also assembled a folder of travel documentation in case it was needed for authorities while registrations were pending. The boat sailed here on its own bottom. Overall it was helpful to have hired them.

^^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^

Now if you have a lot of experience working with customs or documents of that sort, you could do it yourself. Without that kind of experience, @Captain Larry-DH has given you excellent advice!

If you can let us know where the boat is located, more appropriate routing suggestions can be given. It may also depend upon if your import agent says there is a preferred port of entry. They may give you more than one option.

If you have the time, I would highly recommend you spend time sailing the North Channel. It is one of the most spectacular fresh water sailing grounds in the world. The comments about it being the "trip of a lifetime" are not exaggerated.

dj

 

[colemj]

You will also need to make sure the boat is deregistered with Transport Canada.

I think, but do not know for sure, that you can get a 90 or 180 day cruising permit for a non-imported boat. If so, this would give you time to import the boat after bringing it home.

Mark

 

[dlochner]

A competent broker who has experience with importing boats can be of immense value in guiding you to the agents who can help you negotiate customs.

You will also have to deal with insurance and a survey again, cross border issues may arise.

Since you have little experience buying larger boats must less cross border purchasing, the better solution might be look for a boat in the US. There are plenty of boats for sale on this side of the border that have been well maintained.

 

[john6206]

Hey everyone,
lots of great advice - thank you!
also some questions that I can answer, and some that I need to check on.

The Boat:
The boat in question is a custom Gilbert 30+
the location is in Lions Head ON (near Tobermory)

It has an interesting rig, the mast is pretty far forward, giving it a huge main and a tiny jib. I think it looks like a cat boat and a sloop had a baby. I’m told they are easy to sail.

The numbers on it (sa/d, ballast ratio, comfort ratio, etc) indicate that it’s slightly more aggressive than a Catalina 30, which I have a little experience with.

The broker emailed me a pretty thorough survey that was completed last October when the boat was hauled out. The boat has some stuff that needs taking care of before a big voyage, but warts and all, it still seems a good value.

The Voyage:
assuming you stay close to shore, the trip south would be about 260 miles, making customs in Port Huron.
Advantages: shorter trip, I grew up in PH & have family there, have an experienced friend who is willing to come with us that we could drop off in PoHo after we clear customs.
Dissadvantages: it’s all open water, we lose the protected leg of the north channel, & north channel has been on my bucket list for about 30 years now.

right across the belly of the beast is about 100 miles and change. it doesn’t add much to sail to Alpena and then down to Tawas. But I‘d be considerably more comfortable with costal cruising than with crossing right now.

Open Questions:
why did the yacht broker tell me the best way to do it is to go through Sault Ste Marie? He‘s been selling boats for a long time and has sold quite a few of them to Michiganders - I just kinda trusted him on that. But I’ll check.

@colemj when the broker suggested going north, I assumed he was going to suggest De Tour to Cheboygan. I assume there is no customs office there… but there really ought to be if there isn’t. We have launched our Capri 18 out Detour several times, I’m fairly familiar with those waters. Never seen the De Tour marina more than 25% full.

@shemandr You are correct sir. My wife would like a toilet that she can sit on without feeling like she’s doing yoga, and is fairly tired of the hour+ at the boat ramp, but she’s a really good sport about both of those things. I told her that “we need a bigger boat” is one of the most romantic things she‘s ever said to me. Honestly I think she’d be happy with a 25 footer, but then I fear 3 footits would creep in. I bet a 30 footer will keep us happy until we get too old for it and I get myself a Widgeon.

@jssailem
need to confirm tax implications. Strangers on the internet have told me that the USMCA says the import taxes are zero. Others have said they are pretty low, but nonzero. I know the guy at the bridge still asks if you bought anything.. so I’m guessing that taxes and duties still exist.

@dLj thanks for the offer, but we have a friend who has made a similar offer.

@dLj Its ALWAYS a good time to listen to Van Morrison.

 

[dLj]

Reading your response, a few things come to mind.

I would suggest to not be in a hurry, if you have the luxury of time. Don't look at the shortest route, look at the most enjoyable route.

I've never heard of the Gilbert 30+. Looking on sailboat data, that looks like a very nice boat!

Get an agent - get the correct answers for all questions of importing - well worth the money.

No worries - of course you should go with your friend. But if that person falls through... LOL

Van Morrison came to you via @garymalmgren ....

dj

 

[dmdiehl64]

We purchased our Beneteau 321 under very similar circumstances to you, many people do. No experience with the boat, had never fueled, pumped out, etc, but had sailing experience. Our trip was St Joseph to Tawas, 6 day trips of roughly 12 hours. We had calm conditions 5 of the days, and 47kts and 9 footers in Lake Michigan one of the days. We hired a captain with 40 years experience and I couldn't recommend that more. I was fortunate enough to make the 400mi trip with him. Over those 6 days I poured through every inch of the boat learning the systems, got to practice docking, fueling, pump out, etc. The cost to hire the captain and gain the experience was roughly similar to the cost of trailering it across the state. If you would like the name of the captain just message me.

 

[john6206]

Hey Thanks @dmdiehl64

I see you are in Tawas, are you in the state harbor or the TBYC (or somewhere else?).
We are on the wait list for the state harbor, and recently joined the yacht club. I’m told that there is almost definitely a slip for us at the club.

 

[Tally Ho]

So you want to make a loop something like this…?
I was confused by the reference to Sault Ste Marie, as I couldn’t understand why you wanted to lock on to Superior…but that is not what you are intending.

Some good advice so far, including stay on the boat a few days and day sail a bit to get a feel for the boat. See if anything doesn’t work that you need to work. Figuring out how to handle the bigger boat, how much sail to use under different conditions, etc. And make sure you provision food, water and fuel. Does the boat have some sort of heater? Stove and oven for cooking? If you are marina hopping, then solar or generator aren’t necessary.

Then I would work on figuring out how you plan to make the trip, where are the marinas or anchorages you plan to stay at, coming up with contingency plans, etc. How many miles can you sail and/or motor in a day? How many total days does this trip look like it will take (and then add some contingency factor because you probably won’t hit your targets).

Any overnight passages required? Or can you hug the coasts all the way and never need to do an overnight passages?

All in all, I think it is certainly doable and it would be an excellent adventure. But watch your weather carefully.Know where you can bail out of something blows up or breaks, someone gets sick, etc.

The Great Lakes can be very unfriendly if a blow from the far side of the lake builds over a few days.

What kind of boat are you considering? Does she have an inboard diesel engine?

Greg

 

[kappykaplan]

What kind of boat are you considering?

The boat in question is a custom Gilbert 30+

 

[JBP-PA]

The Great Lakes can be very unfriendly if a blow from the far side of the lake builds over a few days.

Good point. Accept you are going to get stuck in some harbor for 2 or 3 days occasionally. I schedule for 30% of the days to be bad for sailing or otherwise extra days in port.

 

[john6206]

@Tally Ho
Your map is essentially correct. The boat is in Lions Head ON - just a bit south of Tobermory (on the bay side of the Bruce Peninsula). So - about 50 miles WNW of where your start point is.

As I said, I'm not sure why the broker suggest clearing customs in The Soo, I just kind of assumed he knew the best way to do this. He is selling yachts on Lake Huron for 35 years . . . I've never done this before. I did reach out to him and ask him to clarify his reasons after several people suggested the trip up the St Mary's was unnecessary.

Yes! I've lived in Michigan my entire 60 years, sailing (almost always in bays) on all of the Great Lakes except Ontario (benefit of a trailer boat is they can go 70MPH). I have really healthy respect for the Great Lakes - that's why I posted this question here. I suggested to my wife that we allow two weeks for this trip. Even doing the whole 350 miles to Sault Ste Marie and down that's only an average of 20 miles a day. Which means we don't have to go out in bad weather. And yes, I know that bad weather can find it's way into a good forecast!

 

[john6206]

@Tally Ho
and our end point is right about where your #6 is.

 

[dLj]

A few years ago there was a thread on the North Channel. You might find some useful information in it.

dj

North Channel Great Lakes Trip Planning Help

Im in the planning stage for a few weeks in the North Channel of the Great Lakes next summer. We will be dragging our boat up behind the truck and coming through Mackinaw City. Im thinking to save time and get east of Cockburn Island we would continue into Canada and put in somewhere on the...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[colemj]

The Voyage:
assuming you stay close to shore, the trip south would be about 260 miles, making customs in Port Huron.
Advantages: shorter trip

I'm completely lost. Port Huron is nowhere near Saginaw Bay, and a much longer trip to go that way. The trip from Port Huron to Tawas has few stopping points and is often an unfavorable sailing direction and conditions - particularly across the shallows of Saginaw Bay near the thumb.

If you just want to get it back to Tawas, that is 100nm from Tobermory. I used to go Au Gres - Tobermory straight through often. It is just an overnight, and if you pick a calm weather, it is an easy motor. It is a great sail if you have favorable wind. Waiting for the wind to switch favorable usually doesn't take long.

Mark

 

[john6206]

@colemj

I completely understand that Mark, and with a little more experience and confidence I might take the more direct route. I’m sure it would be the best way for you. I’m looking for the best way for me.

my original plan was to go north, several people suggested south insted. A 250 mile trip instead of a 350 mile trip.

Understand that almost all of my sailing has been in bays, on an 18’ 1500lb boat. I’m not quite adventurous enough to buy a new boat, and have my first sail be straight across Lake Huron. Maybe when I get to know the boat a bit better, trust myself a bit more …

 

[DArcy]

Some great advice here about the route and moving up to a bigger boat. I sailed with a fellow that bought a Beneteau First 40 in Turkey and sailed it to Toronto. The adventure of delivering the boat was part of the alure. If you are looking for an adventure, that is a great way to start. It sounds like you have plenty of experience, the bigger boat will just be more stable and comfortable.

One thing I will add is that the import duties will likely increase soon. I bought my boat during the last Trump regime when he ignored NAFTA and he promised 25% import duties from Canada this time. I was looking at boats on both sides of the border when he was in power but the import duties made it impractical to buy in the US (I'm in Canada).