Hi, I am looking to purchase a 1994 hunter legend 375 a d after haulout, found a crack in the keel aft only. Should I be concerned about a major rebedding and bolt replacements? The local glass tech says its cosmetic and its only the fairing compound between the stub and bolt on keel. He never inspected the bolts in the bilge. My surveyor didn't seem to know either way which was disappointing. Please see photo and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, some rusty dirty water in the bilge with the bolts.
Crack in Keel, serious?
- Thread starter Life2besimple
- Start date
Although I understand your asking here, diagnosing keel stub issues from a few internet pictures is dubious. While some may offer opinions here, we can’t tell definitively . Before purchasing, find a better surveyor or yard to inspect more thoroughly.
Thanks for the input Don and I would love to but that would mean splashing it again, with hiring a captain to move her, another haulout charge and another surveyor charge. Bit steep to pay all that again.
The splayed crazing spreading up from the keel looks like a lot more than a simple keel stub/ballast joint issue. All the cracks need to be ground out. If it's all just filler or fairing material, fine, you can slap some back on to suit. If it's the fiberglass that has cracked, it's structural, and a more careful repair with new layers of 'glass is needed. We had damage like that after hitting a rock at 6 knots. The front end of the keel (lead) we banged back into shape with a hammer. The back end needed to be ground out and replaced.
Thanks for your input, did you have to address the keel bolts as well? There is no damage forward. The rusty water a concern in the bilge? Thanks for your reply.
I get the reluctance but inconvenience isn’t a good reason to hope for the best when you and your family are offshore and a keel bolt breaks or some structural issue arises. It could be cosmetic or insidious damage from a hard grounding - what’s it worth to you to find out which?
Since Don is correct that this is the only way to get a real answer to your question vs. posting pictures to an Internet forum, I think your only other option would be to pass on the boat. If you are that concerned about paying for another haulout and surveyor charge to get a real answer, you certainly will not be happy with a potentially very expensive repair should this turn out to be more than a cosmetic issue.
I see your point but I guess I'd prefer negotiating and lesser price before I spend all that. Which I will when its mine. Just trying to get some direction before I make a deal.
From this statement it seems to imply that the boat is still on the hard ("splashing it AGAIN"). If that is the case, why can't you get another surveyor with experience in keel damage or an experienced repair individual come to where the boat is and provide further clarification of the extent of damage? Where is the boat located? From you location and the boat indicated it would seem you are in Marathon FL. There should be a bunch of "certified" surveyor's available. It would be well worth your cost to get someone experienced in this kind of damage to look at it. If its a yard guy then he should provide the "quote" to fix it readily unless they are just jammed with work and don't want to do it.
But that assumes that you want to trust the opinion of some "yard guy," and what kind of "fix" he may suggest.
If the boat suffered a hard grounding, there might be damage lurking in places other than the keel that are not presenting themselves quite so obviously. Getting a quote from a yard guy to patch up a crack may or may not be an adequate repair in this case.
Sounds like you have your mind already ‘made up’. Note that you only get one chance to negotiate and with no clear indication how much damage these pictures represent, if any, you will be on your own for some yet indeterminate cost.
If it was me, I’d either find out or walk.
@Alan Gomes I didn't me a "yard monkey"- I meant a yard "guy" like a yard owner or manager experienced in this kind of repair (not just cosmetic but potentially structural stuff). In other words, get a bonifid quote for the repair from a yard that is capable of doing the work. I'd expect that quote to include interior inspection of accessable areas and stringers, including with an inspection camera to reach hard to access areas. Otherwise its just pass on this one or take your chances.
Thanks for all your good advice. I'm trying to find someone local for that second opinion but if course I'm in town for only another day so hopefully I can get someone last minute.
Looking at your pics, the concern I have is that there seems to be a great deal of "filler"
exposed at the seam. Since the earlier Hunters like mine had a keel stub made of solid, hand laid fiberglass mated to a solid, unsheathed lead keel, I don't understand what the broken 'chunks' of filler/epoxy putty/whatever are about. I'd dig out a piece of that and try to determine what it's made of. It could be a sign of prior, significant damage.
The brown staining is the result of a "wet bilge" that needs a good cleaning.
It's a normal occurrence.
exposed at the seam. Since the earlier Hunters like mine had a keel stub made of solid, hand laid fiberglass mated to a solid, unsheathed lead keel, I don't understand what the broken 'chunks' of filler/epoxy putty/whatever are about. I'd dig out a piece of that and try to determine what it's made of. It could be a sign of prior, significant damage.
The brown staining is the result of a "wet bilge" that needs a good cleaning.
It's a normal occurrence.
Based only on the pictures I would agree with the local yard guy that it is fairing and not a deal breaker. Surveyor's of today are afraid of their own shadows given the litigious nature of the public. As for the condition of the keel bolts and other issues you're basically on your own.
The only way to really know is to lift the boat off the keel, inspect and replace, and re-mount it. Maybe at the right price point that makes sense. When it comes to deciding to buy a boat you need to ask the question - "Will I be able to sell the boat tomorrow and get my money back?"
The only way to really know is to lift the boat off the keel, inspect and replace, and re-mount it. Maybe at the right price point that makes sense. When it comes to deciding to buy a boat you need to ask the question - "Will I be able to sell the boat tomorrow and get my money back?"
If the boat has just been hauled out for your survey......Was all the missing and cracked area missing and cracked when you first saw the damage or is that mess a result of the surveyor and/or the fiberglass guy looking into the damage as part of the survey and further investigation? Does the messy bilge suggest to you a lack of overall care by the present owner? Without being there to see the rest of the boat (such as engine, engine compartment, wiring, head and its plumbing) I might think it does. I would politely walk away.
This isn't something to fool around with. Insist that a surveyor at least look at the bolts. If the surveyor says it looks OK (which is all they can do in a survey) then get a discount for fixing the putty and close the deal. That's probably all it is. Then pay the yard to torque the keel bolts to Hunter specs. This is a good thing to do when you buy any boat with a bolt on keel. If repairs are needed, it's not very expensive. As a cautionary tale, here's the British accident report of the Cheeki Rafiki that was lost with all hands (a professional racing crew) when the keel fell off in mid Atlantic due to bolts that were not repaired after an earlier hard grounding. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/55408664e5274a157200005b/MAIBInvReport_8_2015.pdf
Life2,
Did you ever resolve this ? I have a similar issue with a Catalina 27 and I am lookgint o compare notes and get some advice.
Did you ever resolve this ? I have a similar issue with a Catalina 27 and I am lookgint o compare notes and get some advice.
This is out of the ken of a marine surveyor, so it's CLEARLY out of the range of an internet forum. Fixing it is going to take money. So is actually finding out what is wrong. A competent yard, and possibly a marine architect need to be involved. It this scares you, the boat is probably wrong for you, and that length is probably wrong for your overall budget. You have to have your head around spending big money when you own nearly 25 year old 37 foot sailboat.