Covid-19 Vaccination
- Thread starter sail sfbay
- Start date
Generally speaking children need to receive specific vaccines before attending school (or have a medical or religious reason not to). Part of that requirement is driven by the fact that they are at risk for those diseases and gathered in places where they could be spread. It seems like the measures Dave is talking about are similar, just focusing on a different at-risk group, not some dystopian future.
@jon hansen All I am suggesting is nothing more than what (I hope) most of us believe and do as we leave the dock. To enjoy the freedom of the sea (or big MF lake), to be responsible for ourselves and our actions, to avoid making things worse or more dangerous to the other guy, and to stand ready to help others in need. Why can't we do this after we get off the boat?
It was not that long ago we needed to carry one of these if we wished to leave the country and return.
if i'm immune, then i don't care if the guy next to me has had his/her shot is all i'm thinking. i've laid very low for a year now, in a few more days i should be safe to be close to strangers. i'm no longer going to wish they stay away form me. it sounds like some say otherwise.
that's all.
that's all.
Excellent point but we require individual actions "for the benefit of the group" in daily life all the time and thus restrict the ability of an individual to take advantage of benefits allowed to the group because of their individual action. Take for example drinking alcohol. I see a lot of paralles in this example. One may chose to drink as much as they want. They may damage their liver or become an alcholic and we allow that because it is an impact on the individual and his immediate family for the most part (not entirely but that is where the most impact is felt). However, when that individual action impacts the group, like driving while intoxicated, we remove that individual's ability to participate in the benefits afforded others (driving).
If an individual decides that they will not be vaccinated because they "choose not to" then, as Jon said, it is their individual right and I for one will not "demand" that they do so. On the other hand, should they be allowed to sit on a crowed airplane or attend a crowed open event when a vaccine is available to mitigate the risk, not just to them but to others. I don't have the answer to that question but I lean towards not mandating the vaccine, but restricting activities for those who choose not to get vaccinated. (Once they are widely available) Live with your choice and its ramifications.
True Dave. That is when you wanted to travel between foreign countries. The country you visited required you to prove your medical record to their country men.
We never required local residents to prove to their neighbors that they did not need to wear a yellow star or carry papers for inspection.That was for other countries and other governments.
We never required local residents to prove to their neighbors that they did not need to wear a yellow star or carry papers for inspection.That was for other countries and other governments.
Great discussion SBO contributors! It's miles better than the drivel I hear on other media.
I personally feel more safe after the first vaccine. It's a comfort. With at least two "Co-morbidities" I was afraid of a future of, at the very least chronic lung disease, and at the most dying while gasping for breath. It was an easy decision. I'll take #2 on March 30 and then on to 2nd dose of Shindrex a week or two after. So far in the last year I've had 2 Hep A vaccines, 1 Flu vaccine, 1 Covid and 1 Shrindrix. In the past I've had vaccines X2 for pneumonia and 1 x lyme disease. Plus Hep B and a booster for Hep B. Have any of you looked at the tremendous success of the Polio vaccine? Not to mention the vaccines for the scrooges of childhood diseases such as measles, mumps, hooping cough. I know there are detractors there is some co-morbitity, but the over all success is undeniable. Only the older of us ever met someone who had Polio.
I personally feel more safe after the first vaccine. It's a comfort. With at least two "Co-morbidities" I was afraid of a future of, at the very least chronic lung disease, and at the most dying while gasping for breath. It was an easy decision. I'll take #2 on March 30 and then on to 2nd dose of Shindrex a week or two after. So far in the last year I've had 2 Hep A vaccines, 1 Flu vaccine, 1 Covid and 1 Shrindrix. In the past I've had vaccines X2 for pneumonia and 1 x lyme disease. Plus Hep B and a booster for Hep B. Have any of you looked at the tremendous success of the Polio vaccine? Not to mention the vaccines for the scrooges of childhood diseases such as measles, mumps, hooping cough. I know there are detractors there is some co-morbitity, but the over all success is undeniable. Only the older of us ever met someone who had Polio.
i'm vaccinated now, the non vaccinated person poses no threat, he can now sit next to me and i do not care. the drunk on the highway does pose a threat.
lots to ponder. .... or not, i'm rarely in a crowd. have not showered in a year, people keep their distance naturally
lots to ponder. .... or not, i'm rarely in a crowd. have not showered in a year, people keep their distance naturally
This is not an easy consideration for anyone. Ask for the vaccine. Ask for it but not be permitted to get it. Decide that those vaccinated can not be infected. Watch as some get sick and others get well. Many social decisions need to be considered.
Should we put red dots on our head like in India where it identifies the class of a person?
But social deprivation. Denying individuals the opportunity to buy food. Denying individuals the opportunity to work for a living. At one time that was not a part of the American tradition.
Should we put red dots on our head like in India where it identifies the class of a person?
But social deprivation. Denying individuals the opportunity to buy food. Denying individuals the opportunity to work for a living. At one time that was not a part of the American tradition.
The local hospitals require this for the flu. All employees who have a flu vaccine get an sticker for their IDs, those that don't get vaccinated wear a mask.
Your underlying assumption is that the vaccine is effective against ALL future mutations of this virus. My concern is mostly with the ability of the virus to linger in the population for an extended period of time, therefore allowing the opportunity for mutation. At some percentage of population not vaccinated the virus will continue to infect in sufficient numbers to remain "viable" and provides the opporunity for mutation. If that occurs and that "unvaccinated" person with the mutated virus sits next to me or has infected an otherwise vaccinated person who sits next to me I may very well get it. Bummer, just when I thought it was safe to go outside.i'm vaccinated now, the non vaccinated person poses no threat, he can now sit next to me and i do not care. the drunk on the highway does pose a threat.
lots to ponder. .... or not, i'm rarely in a crowd. have not showered in a year, people keep their distance naturally
How many people does it take to not get vaccinated to not only not achieve herd immunity but to allow the virus to linger on, albeit in reduced numbers of people, to allow some here-to-for unknown mutation that starts this whole mess over again? I have no idea of the answer. Remember, it only takes one "patient zero".
That is only half of the equation. There are 2 sides of freedom, the freedom to do and the freedom from. It is a difficult balance to maintain and it is not always equal in the short term. That is why we need to (and did) pass several relief bills. That is why FEMA and the rest of us are sending financial support to Texas even though the powers that be there made bonehead decisions about deregulation of the power grid.
We're all in this together and we need to pull together.
I may be inferring incorrectly from the above but if you suggesting society shouldn't deny basic rights to people who choose not to be vaccinated, I think that is back-asswards. In my view, those who choose to put themselves in that position to remain unvaccinated pose a risk to others by their commission and should be willing to accept whatever constraints society puts on them.
I'm all for rights but rights come with responsibilities too.
So here is a monkey wrench. While there is a claim that the vaccine will reduce the spread, however it is your immune system that does the work. As such, a person with a healthy immune system that got the virus, but had no symptoms also reduces the spread. Two people in our house got the virus. My symptoms were moderate, the other person had no symptoms. There was a third person in our house who never got the virus. Not only that, but they worked in close proximity with the general public. (yes, they were tested). So why should that person be vaccinated? Or even the person who was asymptomatic?
Excessive desire to conform starts in the day care center. Ever watch the poor motherless children walking along with their day care mates holding the rope. Pity the poor individual child who wants to let go of the rope to pat the puppy. He will be sorry for that independent thought. By the time he graduates he will never think independently again. Hold the rope!
Just a tweek, not a monkey wrench. Either a vaccination OR a antibody test demonstrating some assumed level of immunity would be fine. In fact, to free up vaccines for those who really needed it early in the vaccine campaign IMHO they should have also immediatly ramped up antibody testing. If you have the antibodies then give the vaccine to somebody else and if you want one later when the supply is flush, then give it to those who have had it. But that didn't happen. The problem with relying on exposure for future protection is (as you have said) it is your immune system that does the work and your individual response to an exposure may not have given immunity. Just my 2 Cents.
How does that metaphor apply to people who make their own choice to get/not get vaccinated?
And how do you differentiate between conformity of both groups - those who to get vaccinated/wear masks, etc... and those who conform to the notion they shouldn’t?
I agree with that! We still don't really know how many cases of Covid we had among the population since we don't test asymptomatic people as protocol. My Sister in Law had Covid and never knew it. She found out when she went to donate blood and was tested for the antibody. There could be millions of such cases.