Correct lead for genoa sheets on a 1983 O’Day 25

[CaptainCr3ative]

First time owner/sailor here. I purchased an O’Day 25 last September and with the weather warming up I’m looking forward to a lot more time on the water.

The previous owner, although relatively new to sailing himself, has been a big help and I’ve managed to go out with him a few times but I’m also looking ahead to when I will be single-handed most of the time and, as such, reading a lot about rigging.

Today I came across a post here from someone asking about how to lead the genoa sheets on their O’Day 25 and I read the responses and thought, “Huh… that’s not how I was taught by the PO.” I’d like to get some clarification.

I'll do my best to use the proper terms. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

My O’Day 25 has two midship stand-up swivel blocks (one port, one starboard), genoa tracks with cars located aft, winches slightly forward of cockpit, and just aft of the winches, some clamshell cleats that were clearly DIY’d on wooden “risers.”

The PO told me to route the genoa sheets outside everything to the cars on the genoa tracks, back up to the midship blocks (now inside the stanchions), and then back to the winches (See Diagram A) but the problem with this is... the genoa sheets are too short. Every time I tack or jibe I have to get out of the cockpit to reach the end of the opposite genoa sheet which is stopped, only by the knot, at the midship block. At first I was going to add longer sheets.

Then I read (here) "Run the genoa sheet aft to the car on the genoa track, back to the winch, and that's it... the midship block is only for the 100 jib." (See Diagram B). This feels like it makes more sense though I can't give a solid reason why other than... why would I lead the sheet through another block unless it's just to line up better with the winch but...

I don't have a 100 jib. I believe the boat came with a 150 and a 135.

Does anyone else have experience with this?

Follow up question. I don't love the clam cleats on 2.5" tall 1" wide risers. What was original? A standard cleat? It looks like the position of the clam cleats are original (no new holes were drilled)

Thanks all!

 

[Timm R Oday25]

I have the same boat and have a set of genoa tracks just forward of the winch . Whether or not these were installed at the factory or the dealership I do not know. At a minimum I would install a stand up block into 2' to 3' foward of the winch What you have is the original set up .The rear track is for flying a spinnaker.
I wasn't sure if I would like the traveller and mainssheet directly in the way of the companion way .
After owning our boat 20 years ,there is no other setup I have found that works better for solo sailing .
If you have questions or needs pictures just ask . I have met some great folks here .

 

[CaptainCr3ative]

The rear track is for flying a spinnaker.
I wasn't sure if I would like the traveller and mainssheet directly in the way of the companion way

I didn’t even think of the spinnaker. Interesting.

I also have my travelled and mainsheet across the companionway and, though I don’t have a lot of experience with adjusting the traveler (or why) yet, I definitely prefer that setup.

I would definitely appreciate some photos of your setup when you’ve got time to dig em up. I get the feeling, like most things with sailing, there will be a few different responses to setup and rigging so it’s always helpful to have a visual.

With your suggestion of a block 2-3ft forward of the winch, do you mean in addition to the midship block?

 

[jssailem]

Your “B” design is definitely an improvement over “A”.

A basic rig design makes sailing easy, even solo sailing. You need to understand the reason for the movable block on the rail. And thus why I feel your design with the stand-up block is too far aft.

How TRIM Adjustment Works
• Forward lead (closer to the bow/mast): Pulls more downward on the clew → tightens the leech (hooks it in), rounds the foot (more draft/power), opens the top slightly. Great for light winds, powering up, or when the sail looks too flat.
• Aft lead (farther back toward the cockpit): Pulls more horizontally/backward → flattens the foot, twists open the leech (top falls off), reduces power. Ideal for heavier winds, flattening to depower, or preventing excessive heeling.

Looking at images of the O’Day 25, you can see some boats have the “movable block” on the rail in front of the cockpit (circled in red). The winch is on the combing (Also circled in red). The sheet should run from the clew on the jib to the Movable stand-up Block, then to the winch. If the winch is self-tailing, then the sheet would be secure. If the winch is not ST, then you will need a cleat or a cam cleat near it (perhaps just aft if there is room) to hold the sheet secure as you sail.

 

[CaptainCr3ative]

Looking at images of the O’Day 25, you can see some boats have the “movable block” on the rail in front of the cockpit (circled in red). The winch is on the combing (Also circled in red). The sheet should run from the clew on the jib to the Movable stand-up Block, then to the winch. If the winch is self-tailing, then the sheet would be secure. If the winch is not ST, then you will need a cleat or a cam cleat near it (perhaps just aft if there is room) to hold the sheet secure as you sail.

I found this image of O’Day’s rigging instructions (I think I even have a copy of it in my paperwork) and it shows the same setup I have with the exception of no genoa traveler car with block like on my boat - or it’s not obvious in their diagram.

You can see the location of my midship block, winch, etc. in the attached photo.

In the case of the O’Day instructions, it references the jib and suggests going through the midship block straight to the cleat on the coaming… but I’m wondering if that only makes sense for the jib. I can’t see how a 150 genoa would benefit from that midship block at all. I almost wish I had a jib in my collection of sails.

You’re right though, once I figure out proper routing of the genoa sheet I definitely need to practice moving that block/traveler to better understand its impact on the genoa.

 

[Timm R Oday25]

From my understanding ,the stand up block was only to be used for the 100% Genoa or Jib .
Jssailem posted a great picture or where the Genoa track would be located.
Generally the car is moved back when using a larger Genoa.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Then I read (here) "Run the genoa sheet aft to the car on the genoa track, back to the winch, and that's it... the midship block is only for the 100 jib." (See Diagram B). This feels like it makes more sense though I can't give a solid reason why other than... why would I lead the sheet through another block unless it's just to line up better with the winch but...

You are correct. The aft tracks are for a spinnaker. No sense in running it through extra blocks as you stated

Does anyone else have experience with this?

My O'Day 25 had what I believe was a 150 genoa on a furler. It was a good setup. This boat gets most of it's power from the genoa but sails well with either sail

Follow up question. I don't love the clam cleats on 2.5" tall 1" wide risers. What was original? A standard cleat? It looks like the position of the clam cleats are original (no new holes were drilled)

Mine came with horn cleats next to the winches. If you look closely, the front of it is tapered. I grew to like them more than cam cleats ...that is until i got self tailing winches

 

[dlochner]

Spinaker sheets are typically run to a fixed block at the corner of the transom, not to a car on a track. This provides a better sheet angle for the spinnaker when running down wind.

The aft track and block are used for sails that extend past the spreaders, such as a 135% or 150%. The track allows for different sheeting angles based on the size of the sail and point of sail, generally further forward for smaller sails and off the wind, further aft for larger sails and on the wind. The other critical point is the angle of the sheet as it wraps around the winch. An improper angle can cause the sheet to rub the coaming and cause the line to over ride, where the loaded sheet wraps over itself preventing an easy release of the sheet.

 

[shemandr]

I'm a bit stumped about why the track is located so far aft as depicted in the OP's diagram A & B. Normally the track would be along the cabin windows as shown in Jssailem's picture. Did a previous owner make that modification? I can't really see it coming from the factory like that.
For flying a symmetric spinnaker normally there is just a turning block on the transom corner as dlochner stated. It's hard to imagine a purpose for movable spinnaker transom blocks. I will say my Ranger 29 had twings for the spinnaker sheets. Twings adjust the spinnaker sheet lead forward or back depending on the angle of sail. For reaching the twings would be "Off" meaning that the sheet would run to the transom turning block unaffected by the twing block. For DDW the twings would be "On" to choke down the spinnaker making a more round and full shape. So maybe the aft track is a way to add functionality of twings without having to rig them?
In any event I would rig the boat as in diagram B adhering to the KISS rule. But without a track somewhere near the cabin windows and properly place awarthships you will rarely have ideal trim for the genoa which may not be important to the OP. He could put low friction rings thru those forward blocks in the role of an inhauler which would adjust the jib lead. It would be easier and cheaper than installing track.

 

[dlochner]

At first I was going to add longer sheets.

This is the answer.

Based on the photo below there is nothing inherently wrong with the rigging. A more typical arrangement would have the track on the toe rail or on deck near the toe rail with a turning block aft on the outside of the coaming. The sheet would lead through the Genoa block on the track, back to the turning block and then forward to the winch. On this particular boat, that arrangement presents problems because of the coaming, it is too high to go directly from the Genoa block to the winch and the coaming extends too far out to allow a fair run from the Genoa block to the turning block. Additionally, the toe rail does not appear to be wide enough to mount a track.

The prior owner was probably using the stand up blocks as a turning block to bring the Genoa sheet back to the winch. That block is for use with the smallest jib, probably a 110% or smaller. If the lead from the Genoa block to the winch is not fair or causes over rides then using the stand up block as a turning block may be appropriate.

O'Days of this size were designed and marketed as family day sailors large enough for occasional weekend trips. The base boat was rigged to be easy to sail. Back in the day there was a lot of market competition for a boat this size. Keeping costs down was an important factor in the design, build, and rigging of the boat. Larger head sails would have been an option.

 

[CaptainCr3ative]

I'm a bit stumped about why the track is located so far aft as depicted in the OP's diagram A & B. Normally the track would be along the cabin windows as shown in Jssailem's picture. Did a previous owner make that modification? I can't really see it coming from the factory like that.

I’ve dug through a lot of old photos of O’Days, even from their own early catalogs, and the aft track does appear to be standard fare on many of them. Even in the photo that was posted here by jssailem, the aft track and sliding block are visible (see blue circle & arrow) ‍ It’s definitely starting to feel like a case of “forgotten history” where there was probably some documented rigging setup for these boats but as the decades have passed, folks have made enough of their own modifications it’s just been forgotten.

I’m almost inclined to buy a jib and set aside the 135 and the 150 genoas for a while and practice just using the jib with the midship block straight to the winch.

I think “ideal trim” will come with time.
Certainly an interesting conversation

 

[dlochner]

I’m almost inclined to buy a jib and set aside the 135 and the 150 genoas for a while and practice just using the jib with the midship block straight to the winch.

Buying 75' of ⅜" Trophy Braid (aka "Fuzzy Braid") for new sheets will be a lot less expensive than a new jib. The sailing will also be more fun with a larger head sail, especially when the wind is below 10 knots. (The rule of thumb for sheets is 1.5 times the length of the boat for Genoa sheets, 2 times for spinnaker sheets.)

https://defender.com/en_us/samson-trophy-braid

 

[jssailem]

The tracks importance serves only to trim the foresail when it is flying. Adjust the location so that you can trim the sail you plan to use.

How TRIM Adjustment Works:
• Forward lead (closer to the bow/mast): Pulls more downward on the clew → tightens the leech (hooks it in), rounds the foot (more draft/power), opens the top slightly. Great for light winds, powering up, or when the sail looks too flat.

• Aft lead (farther back toward the cockpit): Pulls more horizontally/backward → flattens the foot, twists open the leech (top falls off), reduces power. Ideal for heavier winds, flattening to depower, or preventing excessive heeling.

I would sail the 135. It is a nice balance between the sails. It will feel more powerful, yet will sail more easily if the winds brisk up and you need to reef.

There are a number of O’Day 25 images with sailors flying spinnakers, some asymmetrical. The rigging of a block on the aft quarter would be very easy to support that sail.

What ever you do, be sure to get your foresail sheets to run all the way to the cockpit. Having to reach out hanging near the rail to retrieve a sheet in order to tack the boat is just wrong.

 

[Timm R Oday25]

If the original poster tries using the example in figure "A" , tacking becomes a headache .it is hard to release than much sheet in a timely manner without stalling the boat during at tack. Especially when sailing solo.
If he uses the rear track the sheet angle will never be correct with smaller genoas.

 

[Stu Jackson]

though I don’t have a lot of experience with adjusting the traveler (or why) yet,

To learn how to use it properly and effectively, buy Don's book, the BEST sail trim book ever written. Right here from the sbo store.

https://shop.sailboatowners.com/search.php?brand=sailboat&kw=sail+trim

 

[Timm R Oday25]

Please excuse the very dirty boat . These are the tracks I use for the 135-150 Genoa . Hopefully this helps

 

[dlochner]

View attachment 237036

Please excuse the very dirty boat . These are the tracks I use for the 135-150 Genoa . Hopefully this helps

Is there a turning block aft on the coaming to route the sheet up to the winch?

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Is there a turning block aft on the coaming to route the sheet up to the winch?

There's the block that's in Timm's photo and then there's a spinnaker track aft of the winch on the coaming. EIther can be used but the forward one is what's supposed to be used for the genoa/jib. Less friction as the line doesnt have to do a full 180.

 

[Timm R Oday25]

' Dlochner ,no there is not . It isn't needed.When I sail solo out on Lake Michigan and it gets "sporty ,I take the working jib sheet up to the winch and tail it across to the other winch and cleat it off . Makes tacking really easy . I bought the boat in 2002 and these were installed already. I do not know if the factory or the dealer installed them .
I upgraded my traveller to a Gehauer over the fall .The change in quality and the staff I worked with was so good ,I may order adjustable cars and tracks for the genoa

 

[dlochner]

' Dlochner ,no there is not . It isn't needed.When I sail solo out on Lake Michigan and it gets "sporty ,I take the working jib sheet up to the winch and tail it across to the other winch and cleat it off . Makes tacking really easy . I bought the boat in 2002 and these were installed already. I do not know if the factory or the dealer installed them .
I upgraded my traveller to a Gehauer over the fall .The change in quality and the staff I worked with was so good ,I may order adjustable cars and tracks for the genoa

Doesn't the sheet rub on the coaming? What size sail are you using?

Cross sheeting works to keep the weight on the high side.