Copper in Water

[Gunni]

I have never seen any boat that didn't have some soft growth on it after a few months in warm water, and algal growth is not stopped by copper alone, that is what the biocide additives are for. The thing that stopped me from further consideration of Copper Coat was the hard growth (and the king's ransom cost). Hard growth really slows down a boat and is hard to remove.

 

[JamesG161]

The barnacles attach, confine, concentrate, meager amounts of Copper ion when will eventually kill the growth. And yes, the science of thermodynamics describes the energy potential (or force) of the toxic chemical reaction. Lower the amount of Copper OR raise the amount of water and there is little potential to KILL.

That why I don't die from drinking water from my household Copper plumbing.
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Folks it is NOT SCIENCE that determined the regulations and worry. IT was just a MODEL by Man. It is statistics and only statistics that attempted to monitor one thing, Copper, not Copper in paint, not Copper in the Ocean, not known biopsy of dead fish, but using a very weak aquatic species. Not Salmon.
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Two good examples of regulation "knee jerks".
1) The pink wrapped sugar substitute. Models showed cancer in rats. Regulations forced the Cancer Warning label on the package, for many many years. Look now. Label warning gone!!! Hmmmm after 30 years of study, it had no effects (except helping diabetics) on humans.

2) Chicken Egg consumption causes Heart Disease Cholesterol! Wrong! There is no effect negative effect on blood system cholesterol. FDA is removing it from the list after 35 years of study. Veterans Health channel ( and more) just declared the Whole Chick Egg as the most single perfect food for the human body. Not the Whites but ALL the egg.
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@thinwater post#23 has the right idea of an ecosystem testing not MODELing.
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Kemah Boardwalk Marina....severely restricted water with 400 boats crammed into a tight area but yet has tons of fish. The lack of fish in a marina is not due to bottom paint, but how much food is in the area and how much protection.

Now you have real analysis!
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People over regulate the wrong things is a quest to do SOMETHING noble and usually based on the moral high ground.
Jim....

 

[kimelmore]

People need to get a life.

 

[Charles Erwin]

One wonders at all this. Evidently of all the thousands of governments and bureaus on the face of the planet - the Washington State legislature is the sole and exclusive source of enlightenment vis a vis antifouling containing copper.

I can say with certainty that the Washington legislation did not come about based upon anything approaching fact. It came about because two Puget Sound yards had copper concentrations proximate to them and a group threatened to sue Washington for not doing something about these two point source situations.

This legislation is a political cannon to kill a mosquito.

Please also note two things.

First the exemptions - all vessels over 65 feet are exempt, all inspected vessels carrying passengers are exempt and all inspected vessels engaged in commercial use are exempt - regardless of size. So why is copper paint applied to a boat over 65 feet no threat at all while the same paint applied to a 7 foot row boat is a threat? As to wood boats - there is just nothing else available to repel worms - yet these wood classics are not exempt.

Second - the legislature requires the department to conduct a study concerning the availability of paints and the effect of paints upon organisms and water quality. In other words Washington bans a substance then conducts a study to locate facts. But -- no matter what the study might reveal - the substance remains banned.

Charles

 

[Justin_NSA]

I think we should have a contest to see who can use the most big words without actually saying anything. I think that was the point of the thread.

I can also see that a ban is what results when there is no interest in the middle ground.

I've been waiting to use this quote:
"Syzygy, inexorable, pancreatic, phantasmagoria --- anyone who can use those four words in one sentence will never have to do manual labor. Kinsella, W.P"

 

[fstbttms]

My next bottom job is going to be the Copper Coat -- copper mixed with a special epoxy where no growth for 10 years. The copper stays on the boat and the growth stays off the boat.

Right- no growth for 10 years, Bwhahahahaha! Hey, I hear there's a bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale too!

 

[JamesG161]

Syzygy, inexorable, pancreatic, phantasmagoria

My Moon sign is NOT in conjunction with my Sun sign. I had to look that one up. At least I looked it up.

I apologize for having to use some BIG terms to jog the memories of the "declared scientific type". Some understood, some have forgotten. I responded and I normally don't when it takes BIG words.

I like this part of SBO, since it is OFF TOPIC. Here I feel more a liberty to counter (in a nice way) those who insist on shutting down a thread with "You are a big dummy and I am right Nah Nah Nah " comments.

Those who care about a subject, humor, info, and other non-political/religion stuff find a home here. If you don't like it, block the forum.
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There were many who wanted to take a side... Copper paint or No Copper paint.
I personally took no side, but tried to expose how many regulation are...

This legislation is a political cannon to kill a mosquito.

Well said.
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You may hear things like "This is settled Science!". That should be your alert that it is NOT SCIENCE, but a proposed MODEL that some accept at true.

What I can't abide is...

When the real data doesn't match the MODEL's predictions then they try to justify the model.

What they should do...

Change the DAMN MODEL! (based on the actual data)

Jim...

PS: Did you know the test fish are minnows? Body weight is the key to dosage. But But But ... Jim that would take a lot of money to test Salmon and they are not happy in a fish jail.