Copper Free Bottom Paint

[Ken Cross]

I need to pull my boat out for new bottom paint. It has an awful beard. It's been about 16 months since I put last did the bottom. We'll see what it looks like once it comes out of the water.

In 2020 in Washington, copper free paint will be all you can buy for recreational boats. Knowing this I had used Micron CF. I'm not happy. I don't know if I did something wrong or if the paint is just awful. The Everett Marina is brackish water. Has anyone else experience with this? I had hoped to find a decent multi-year copper free paint. In the past I've never had any problem with copper based products.

Oh: bottom cleaning in the water is illegal here.
Ken

 

[fstbttms]

I had hoped to find a decent multi-year copper free paint. In the past I've never had any problem with copper based products.

Not sure why anybody expects copper-free paints to perform as well as the products they are intended to replace. If they did,
they'd already be in widespread use.

Oh: bottom cleaning in the water is illegal here.

Sorry. That's simply not true.

 

[Mark Maulden]

I use West Marine PCA Gold which is the same as Pettit SR 40 Ultima. Always had a problem with the "beard". This year was the worst according to the yards. But when i reach down the hull it's not nearly as fowled. I have the bottom cleaned by a diver every spring. This last spring was the third yr on the paint and i just fashioned a bottom cleaning brush to use from the dock during the summer to get me through this yr. It seems this last season seems to be particularly bad for growth. Being this was the third yr, it looks like i can get away with every other yr. Late next winter, I"ll haul and i might go to Pettit SR 60. After 2020, I might just go to CA. Comox has several grids...integrate it into a cruise..but it's DIY.

 

[dlochner]

Blue Water Marine, Shelter Island paint was highly rated by Practical Sailor. Shelter Island Plus™ - Copper-Free - 6% Econea, 4% Zinc Pyrithione It is also less expensive than Micron and Pettit products. Less money going to advertising.

I'm in freshwater and the paint has been on the boat about a month, so far so good, no waterline growth.

My only complaint thus far is that the blue is well, an electric blue. I was hoping for something a bit more subdued.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Even paints with copper aren't doing as well as before. Manufacturers are removing Irgarol anti-slime ingredient.
There are copper-free paints that work. PS has field (water) tested a few.

 

[Sailm8]

I am in brackish water in SW Florida and use Trinidad SR and A DIVER. I think the future of keeping your bottom clean will depend on a good diver. Manufacturers and regulations are removing what works chemically necessitating a manual method of controlling growth. Diver comes once a month during warm water season and less in the cool. Money well spent in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

I have to agree with Fstbttms on this.

From info I've read over the years, the best bottom paints for fresh & salt water differ. The best paint for my saltwater area has been Pettit Trinidad. I've also read that the color also has an impact on effectiveness. The red is supposed to be more effective then say blue but, I haven't seen enough documentation alluding to this.
Pettit also makes a copper-free line of paints but so far, I haven't done enough research for my next bottom job.

I do know that one can use a copper paint which is better in salt water & it can also be used for fresh. I've also read articles on non-copper paints working well in fresh water.

On the flip side so far, non-copper paint does not fair as well in salt water. It seems that the jury is still out on non-copper. I do know they are always in development looking for a better non-copper paint.

Additionally in areas of Europe, copper paint has been a NO NO for some years.

CR

 

[Ken Cross]

Sorry. That's simply not true.

I have ablative paint. Here is a link
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/nonpoint/CleanBoating/hull.html
The fine is $10,000 for cleaning a hull in the water in Washington.

Ken

 

[Justin_NSA]

WA has always been super sensitive to runoff, but I would not be surprised if all states eventually pass the same law. I am going to conform the next time I have to do a complete repaint. by then there should be some good data on what works or not in my lake. On a similar note, the carp during mating season just LOVE (pun intended) to slap along the hulls with VC17. They hit soo hard, they splash water on the dock fingers. It's impossible to sleep!

RCW 90.48.080
Discharge of polluting matter in waters prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to throw, drain, run, or otherwise discharge into any of the waters of this state, or to cause, permit or suffer to be thrown, run, drained, allowed to seep or otherwise discharged into such waters any organic or inorganic matter that shall cause or tend to cause pollution of such waters according to the determination of the department, as provided for in this chapter.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Ken, why not avoid the ablative paints and leave your bottom with an epoxy paint barrier. It appears to be legal to clean your bottom as long as you don't have an ablative paint. You'll have the diver fees, but you might have a much cleaner bottom if you fall into that routine.

 

[Ken Cross]

Ken, why not avoid the ablative paints and leave your bottom with an epoxy paint barrier. It appears to be legal to clean your bottom as long as you don't have an ablative paint. You'll have the diver fees, but you might have a much cleaner bottom if you fall into that routine.

I'd need to completely strip to use hard paint. I actually have no experience with it. It is an interesting thought, however.
I've always heard that hard paints are for fast boats and that the friction with the water is what makes them effective.
I wonder if anyone here has experience with hard paints in brackish water???? Do I need to learn to dive??? Our water is cold enough that divers use dry suits here.

 

[fstbttms]

I have ablative paint. Here is a link
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/nonpoint/CleanBoating/hull.html
The fine is $10,000 for cleaning a hull in the water in Washington.

So what you actually meant to say was, "Oh, bottom cleaning is illegal here, for my boat." The reality is that bottom cleaning is legal in Washington.

 

[JamesG161]

In 2020 in Washington, copper free paint will be all you can buy for recreational boats

Can you use a Bronze propeller and thru hull ferrules in WA?
Jim...

PS: A bored world gone crazy with too much spurious information. I will rant on Cu in the appropriate forum.

 

[fstbttms]

Even paints with copper aren't doing as well as before. Manufacturers are removing Irgarol anti-slime ingredient.

I never noticed any difference in performance between (for instance) the old, pre-Irgarol Trinidad and Trinidad SR. It was a great product before it had Irgarol in it and I see no reason why it will not be a great product after.

There are copper-free paints that work. PS has field (water) tested a few.

As with all anti fouling paints, much depends on the fouling conditions where used. I have been involved in some copper-free product testing here in the Bay Area. I have yet to see one that I would recommend to my customers.

 

[fstbttms]

Ken, why not avoid the ablative paints and leave your bottom with an epoxy paint barrier. It appears to be legal to clean your bottom as long as you don't have an ablative paint. You'll have the diver fees, but you might have a much cleaner bottom if you fall into that routine.

You would never say that if you'd ever tried to maintain an unpainted hull in saltwater.

 

[fstbttms]

I've also read that the color also has an impact on effectiveness.

In my experience, this is a wive's tale. I have never seen a difference in anti fouling effectiveness between colors in a given product line. Yes, darker colors tend to have more copper than lighter colors. But the percentage is small and not enough to significantly improve performance, IMHO.

I've always heard that hard paints are for fast boats and that the friction with the water is what makes them effective.

Boy, there is obviously lots of misinformation out there (and much of it being espoused in this thread.) Hard paints (which, BTW, are suitable for any boat, fast or not) work by leaching their biocide into the water, 24/7/365. Ablative paints (also suitable for any boat) do this as well, but also work by slowly wearing away as the boat moves through the water, thereby exposing fresh biocide to the surface.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

You would never say that if you'd ever tried to maintain an unpainted hull in saltwater.

I would never say what? Is there something wrong with using a hard paint? Or are you saying that an epoxy barrier paint is not a biocide and doesn't resist marine growth? I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so rude. What is the mis-information? I simply questioned if Ken could use a hard paint and pay for regular dive service.

I have epoxy barrier coats and ablative paint on my hull. I recently scrubbed the bottom to remove the scum. It builds up easily, it seems, but was not a problem to remove. We have warm water and a 30-minute swim was an easy job while anchored in about 6' feet of clearish (sort of) water. I understand Ken's problem with cold water. It would be a deterrent for me as well. I can see the need to hire a diver.

 

[fstbttms]

I would never say what? Is there something wrong with using a hard paint? Or are you saying that an epoxy barrier paint is not a biocide and doesn't resist marine growth?

You would never suggest that keeping a boat in saltwater without anti fouling paint was a reasonable thing to do if you had ever tried to maintain one like that.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so rude.

I think you're overly sensitive. I wasn't rude in any way, shape or form.

What is the mis-information?

Let's see- hard paints wear away due to water friction; hard paints are only suitable for "fast" boats; paint color affects paint effectiveness; hull cleaning is illegal in Washington; your inference that anti fouling paint is not necessary etc.

I didn't point these things out to insult you (or anyone) in this thread. I point them out because they are misconceptions or simply not true. I'm sorry if that offends you.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Scott
The rest of us knew what you meant.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I didn't see any comment that suggests that hard paints wear away due to water friction. I didn't see any comment that suggests that hard paints are only suitable for fast boats. I didn't suggest that anti-fouling paint is not necessary in salt water(ok, maybe my reference to an epoxy barrier coat is not technically an anti-fouling paint per se - I don't mind being corrected on that issue). I only suggested that he use a hard paint and pay for cleaning on a regular basis. Ken obviously is not providing mis-information where he cites a reference that indicates that in-water cleaning of a hull with ablative paint is not legal in Washington. He clearly indicated that he has ablative paint. I'm not being sensitive, I think I am just responding to your diversionary posts. You have made several replies and none of them appear to be helpful to Ken. They seem to be merely confrontational, which leads me to think you have thin skin.