Convert partial battens to full battens

BarryL · Nov 14, 2023

Hi,

I'm not an expert but my understanding is that full battens will extend the life of the sail, but will make it more difficult to shape the sail for specific wind conditions. If you are more interested in sailing performance I would stick with partial battens. If you're more interested in longevity then maybe full battens make sense.

Personally I think the dutchman will cause more wear on the sail than the partial battens will. I love my dutchman system but I can really see how folding the sail in the same position every single time really wears the sail. My sail is a laminate with taffeta cover and the laminate HATES the same folds all of the time. Dacron may be different, I don't know.

You also need to consider the expense of modifying the sail with the savings from extending the life of the sail. I suspect it doesn't make good financial sense to modify the sail but again I'm not an expert.

Barry

Roland5048 · Nov 14, 2023

Scott T-Bird said:
I was talking to the rigger last night about adding strong-track

What is strong-track?
I agree with @BarryL about the longevity factor of full battens. I've usually always had them as I find them easier to trim then partial battens. Furling without some type of way to tame the sail as it comes down can be a challenge at times, however.

jssailem · Nov 14, 2023

@Roland5048 Strong Track is a system to replace the standard mast track for the main. The system uses a HDPE material for the track system. Very slippery track. It provides a quick way to drop the mainsail with out the traditional hang ups due to corrosion or dirt that typically occurs in metal tracks or luff slots.

BarryL · Nov 14, 2023

Hi Again,

I think you have it backwards:

People with full batten mainsails have to get a strong track type system.
People with a strong track system don't have to have full battens.

A full batten puts a lot of pressure on the sail track. This makes it hard to raise or lower the sail. So people tend to go to strong track type system to make the sail slugs at the battens go up and down easier. I have 2 full battens and 2 partials. For the full battens I have a car on the luff with rollers instead of just a slug. I have a jeanneau, french built, with Facnor gear.

If you add the strong track system your mail will go up and down with less effort. I don't think adding full battens will have much of an effect on that.

If you want know lots and lots about full battens you can read about it here

Full Length Battens-1: What they do, don’t do and why | joecoopersailing.com

Barry

Joe · Nov 15, 2023

My mainsail has two full battens on top. The bottom two are partial. So the outhaul has purpose in life with the partial lowers, and the mainsheet/vang has a little help up top with the leech.

Tally Ho · Nov 15, 2023

I replaced my main a few years ago, and went with a full batten sail. North sail recommended the strong track As was stated because of the pressure the full battens put on the sail track.

i like the set up, and I like the strength and quality of the slides.

Greg

Sailor Sue · Nov 16, 2023

Here's something else you might want to consider....
We just ordered a new mainsail for our J/32. It has a Leisure Furl boom which requires 6 full length battens. Rich Wilber, our Sobstad sail maker, asked if we'd like use the battens from our old sail, since it would save us some money. Using new battens would have added $750 to the price of a new sail! A lot of that cost is shipping since our lowest batten is almost 16 feet, and would have to ship via common carrier.

shemandr · Nov 16, 2023

Regarding the Tides Song Track, I sailed a season of Wed PM and weekend races on a J 34C with the system. It made raising the main a breeze. That sail had FLB's. As crew I loved that system.

Sailor Sue · Nov 16, 2023

I also should have mentioned, our full battened main always looks nice, even when it's not properly trimmed. I think one needs to pay more attention, and maybe be willing to make more adjustments, when trimming full battens. I'm not sure I would agree with people who says it's easier to trim full battens.

shemandr · Nov 16, 2023

I agree. The full battens can cover a lot of sins. But they also extend the life of a sail.
The various renditions of “Laminate” sails are more fixed in shape than Dacron sails. I think their shape is pretty much their shape. I don’t think they are as subject to tweaks in sail controls. So, I think full battens harming the trim adjustability for laminate sails is not that big an issue. What you get is the designed shape until it’s not.
I had a tape drive (Check your history books) sail that came with my Ranger. It was like Swiss Cheese but the shape was like it was new.

Ward H · Nov 17, 2023

Last winter we had a new main sail built. Our sailmaker/rigger spent several hours on the phone with us discussing our sailing style, conditions we sailed in, what we hoped to achieve with the new sail. One of our requirements was a sail that was easy to raise, trim, douse and put away. We thought we wanted a stack pack and Tides Marine Strong Track but we withheld that from the sailmaker to see if he recommended them.
And he did. He recommended a full batten main with the Strong Track and Stack Pack. He explained how they would work well together. IE: the strong track allows the use of full battens without the mast friction issues, the full battens allows the sail to drop more cleanly into the stack pack, they also allow better sail trim and extend the life of the sail. The stack pack makes it easier to square the boat away after a long day of sailing.
He explained the pros and cons of full battens and stack packs and that for the kind of sailing we were doing, the pros outweighed the cons.
We went with his suggestions and couldn't be happier with this setup.

As far as batten cost goes, our sailmaker said it's a non issue. When shipping costs skyrocketed during covid all batten makers began selling battens in shorter lengths, made to be pieced together by the sailmaker, to save on shipping costs. Our sailmaker likes doing this as it means he no longer has to inventory long battens.

Ken Cross · Nov 17, 2023

Last time I purchased new sails I used partial full battens. It worked well for us.
I think the full battens were on the top and partial the bottom 2, but I may be in error.
I thought it was a good compromise.
Alas we sold our boat 3 years ago and I just stopped in here our of curiosity.

Tally Ho · Nov 17, 2023

Pictures worth a 1,000 words…

Greg

jssailem · Nov 18, 2023

True Greg. The image of your full battened wing clarifies the information.

Your boat is charging along. One question. Would the sail in that wind have the same shape without the full battens? Would that wind condition need more or less trim options without the full battens?

I look on the batten choice as a part of the overall system to be used in the sailing conditions expected by the owner. In light and moderate wind speeds, the full batten design can help hold a sail trim shape more easily. There is also the possibility that the battens can become a pain if the wind is not strong enough to invert the batten when you tack, then you have to grab the boom, whipping it back and forth to invert the batten to the correct tack and shape.

A full mainsail with full battens plan has to consider the mast track. The force put on the mast track by the full battens induces friction on the sail slides. Strong Trac was developed to address the friction issue.

On my new Mainsail, I elected the hybrid batten design. One full batten at the top to influence the shape of my upper 1/3 of the sail in lighter breezes. Then standard battens the rest of the sail leach. My track is clean and the external sail slides used by North Sail move smoothly on my mast track. Strong Track was not needed.

I experienced the “inverted Batten” syndrome when sailing in light breezes 5-7 knots and chop. I have tried to address this by easing the tension on the batten at the batten pocket. It is still a work in progress.

So far I am pleased with the hybrid design.

Tally Ho · Nov 18, 2023

jssailem said:
True Greg. The image of your full battened wing clarifies the information.

Your boat is charging along. One question. Would the sail in that wind have the same shape without the full battens? Would that wind condition need more or less trim options without the full battens?

I look on the batten choice as a part of the overall system to be used in the sailing conditions expected by the owner. In light and moderate wind speeds, the full batten design can help hold a sail trim shape more easily. There is also the possibility that the battens can become a pain if the wind is not strong enough to invert the batten when you tack, then you have to grab the boom, whipping it back and forth to invert the batten to the correct tack and shape.

A full mainsail with full battens plan has to consider the mast track. The force put on the mast track by the full battens induces friction on the sail slides. Strong Trac was developed to address the friction issue.

On my new Mainsail, I elected the hybrid batten design. One full batten at the top to influence the shape of my upper 1/3 of the sail in lighter breezes. Then standard battens the rest of the sail leach. My track is clean and the external sail slides used by North Sail move smoothly on my mast track. Strong Track was not needed.

I experienced the “inverted Batten” syndrome when sailing in light breezes 5-7 knots and chop. I have tried to address this by easing the tension on the batten at the batten pocket. It is still a work in progress.

So far I am pleased with the hybrid design.

It certainly might John. Winds were full and my angle of attack was great.

But I am a fairly lazy sailer too, so the less fussing I have to do with the sails, the better.

As you can see, I am single-handed, and conditions were a little challenging IIRC. I see I have both sails reefed (Unlike me

).

I am a big fan of full battens and the Strong Track. The high-quality stainless slugs are robust and slide easily in all angles. I can pull down a reef or shake out a reef pretty easily without rounding up into the wind…and usually by myself.

But to each his own. It is t for everyone or every boat.

Cheers,

Greg