Perhaps I'm premature - which is the reason I've joined this forum - but I learned to sail just this year on the Flying Scot back in the spring and have taken every opportunity I was comfortably able to, to continue sailing that boat and grow proficient in my skills. Moreover, I think I successfully resisted rushing out and buying a boat beyond my needs. However at one point I had the opportunity to sail a 30' sailboat and instantly discovered the significance of the advice of the importance of sailing various boats to discover what you'd like in your own boat. The 30 footer seemed so slow and ponderous that I seemed to think I'd like a smaller, quicker boat and that's when the Ranger 22's came upon my radar screen. I've visited a few websites including the Brazilian one but I speak neither Portugese nor Spanish, so other than appreciating the beauty of the little boat it was uninformative. Although they're no longer made it seems the owners are pretty enthusiastic about this boat so perhaps they're the wrong people to ask but do you Ranger owners feel this to be an adequate choice for a first boat? I don't understand many of the technical terms being discussed here1 such as the 15 - 20 degree point or leaking requiring teflon sheeves, so is a 78 or 79 an overwhelming maintenance headache? I believe I've progressed quite well for the short amount of time I've saild but is much required in sailing skill? I don't recall seeing any galley in the few pictues I've seen so does the 22 have one? Thank you for your time in answering.
- Status
Sounds like a pretty darn good 1st boat to me.
I sail a Tartan 27' and a 19' Lightning and when I race the Tartan there is a 25' Ranger that sometimes beats us. They are pretty fast boats - Rangers. I found this website http://www.strictlysailing.com/ranger22/boat.html where it says that 'the optional stove and sink, you can turn he Ranger 22 into a snug and practical weekend cruiser.' So do not expect a stove or sink on most R 22's as it seems they are largely raced. My Tartan is from 1967 so I know about maintenance. A boat from 1978 or so sounds pretty good to me. Check at that website for boats for sale; there is one for sale in NC (Lake Norman) for $5200 that has about 20 sails, trailer. If you thought a 30 footer was ponderous my guess is you are going to like the Ranger 22 a lot. The advantage of a heavier boat is only for dealing with heavier winds. Good luck.
I sail a Tartan 27' and a 19' Lightning and when I race the Tartan there is a 25' Ranger that sometimes beats us. They are pretty fast boats - Rangers. I found this website http://www.strictlysailing.com/ranger22/boat.html where it says that 'the optional stove and sink, you can turn he Ranger 22 into a snug and practical weekend cruiser.' So do not expect a stove or sink on most R 22's as it seems they are largely raced. My Tartan is from 1967 so I know about maintenance. A boat from 1978 or so sounds pretty good to me. Check at that website for boats for sale; there is one for sale in NC (Lake Norman) for $5200 that has about 20 sails, trailer. If you thought a 30 footer was ponderous my guess is you are going to like the Ranger 22 a lot. The advantage of a heavier boat is only for dealing with heavier winds. Good luck.
Thank you Caleb...
...I've heard of the Tartans and looked it up and that's a BEAUTIFUL boat. However, the problem with newbies such as me, is pretty much all of them are beautiful and so I'm afraid of missing something else more important as well, but just the same...she's beautiful. I've read and re-read your email because to me, it's so full of information, insightful information. I've surprised myself in really taking my time about this because I'm sure you're familiar with the stories people often tell you when you mention your interest in sailboats: "Well ya know the 2 happiest days in your life are...etc" or about all the unsailed boats "just sitting in their slips". And yet, I don't think I'm doing it intentionally but I find sailboats 'extremely' interesting and even the whole affair of just 'looking' and researching the different boats is turning out to be educational and an adventure as well if done patiently. Yes, "ponderous" is the word. "The advantage of a heavier boat is only for dealing with heavier winds." See there? There's just so much commonsense in this sport. Yeah. Thank you.
...I've heard of the Tartans and looked it up and that's a BEAUTIFUL boat. However, the problem with newbies such as me, is pretty much all of them are beautiful and so I'm afraid of missing something else more important as well, but just the same...she's beautiful. I've read and re-read your email because to me, it's so full of information, insightful information. I've surprised myself in really taking my time about this because I'm sure you're familiar with the stories people often tell you when you mention your interest in sailboats: "Well ya know the 2 happiest days in your life are...etc" or about all the unsailed boats "just sitting in their slips". And yet, I don't think I'm doing it intentionally but I find sailboats 'extremely' interesting and even the whole affair of just 'looking' and researching the different boats is turning out to be educational and an adventure as well if done patiently. Yes, "ponderous" is the word. "The advantage of a heavier boat is only for dealing with heavier winds." See there? There's just so much commonsense in this sport. Yeah. Thank you.
Nodachi, The lack of a means of cooking and
washing up should not be a deal killer in a 22 foot boat. There are many ways to improvise that will serve you well. A porta-pot, A camp stove and a dish pan will meet all of the NEEDS for over nighting. Enjoy our sport and buy a boat that you can afford to keep and will be able to use.
washing up should not be a deal killer in a 22 foot boat. There are many ways to improvise that will serve you well. A porta-pot, A camp stove and a dish pan will meet all of the NEEDS for over nighting. Enjoy our sport and buy a boat that you can afford to keep and will be able to use.
Speaking of which Ross...
...your reply reminds me of an email I just received from Sail Annapolis regarding their Pre-Sailboat Show Open House and they included pictures of boats such as the CatalinaMorgan 440DS, that can "Electrically raise/lower the convertible dining/cocktail table." and the Catalina 350 with "Interchangeable dining and cocktail tables Separate stall shower". Well it's QUITE difficult for me to determine specifically how or when I became interested in sailboats - although it must be within the past few years - a book I'd gotten from the library that I'd like to share a quote from had a tremendous impact on 'my' thinking about sailing and additionally caused me to consider the very real possibility that sailing wasn't solely the domain of the ultra affluent - is Larry Browns's "Frugal Yachting". In fact I just got it from the library again for the 3rd time and last night I read the following: "A working family, a professional man, two newlyweds, a retired couple, three college students...all of them can enjoy most of the same pleasures as an affluent yachtsman: Freedom...Adventure...Romance...Luxury: HERE you and the yachtsman part company. For him, boating means pressurized water, electric lights - maybe even a shower on board - and a mortgage as hefty as the one on your home. For you, it means a warm place to lie down, a camp stove, a bath in the water you sail in, new cruising waters every time if you want, minimum financial investment, little risk, and no worry. Freedom, adventure, romance. These can all be yours if you can do without the luxury, once you stop thinking of your boat as a status symbol and start thinking of it instead as a ticket to freedom." So yes, I TOTALLY agree with you. I have camp gear I haven't used for years and this would be a perfect use for it. I've read the importance of considering what use you intend for the boat, frequency of use, where, etc. so as not to waste your time or money purchasing one. Well I love adventure and sailing seems to fit the bill. I learned in a channel, and the Potomac and Anacostia rivers in downtown Washington so I'd be sailing there and very conceiveably eventually on the Chesapeake as well because my long term objectives are to learn enough to sail down the coast and perhaps into the Carribean and beyond. But you have to start somewhere and first I had to learn how to sail.
Now as the next step I need to hone my skills on a slightly larger boat of my own. So although eager and excited I also can appreciate the significance of the purchase of my first boat and the role it will play so if I seem restrained that's why. That's the long answer. The short answer is: I have no problem with there not being a galley. ;D
...your reply reminds me of an email I just received from Sail Annapolis regarding their Pre-Sailboat Show Open House and they included pictures of boats such as the CatalinaMorgan 440DS, that can "Electrically raise/lower the convertible dining/cocktail table." and the Catalina 350 with "Interchangeable dining and cocktail tables Separate stall shower". Well it's QUITE difficult for me to determine specifically how or when I became interested in sailboats - although it must be within the past few years - a book I'd gotten from the library that I'd like to share a quote from had a tremendous impact on 'my' thinking about sailing and additionally caused me to consider the very real possibility that sailing wasn't solely the domain of the ultra affluent - is Larry Browns's "Frugal Yachting". In fact I just got it from the library again for the 3rd time and last night I read the following: "A working family, a professional man, two newlyweds, a retired couple, three college students...all of them can enjoy most of the same pleasures as an affluent yachtsman: Freedom...Adventure...Romance...Luxury: HERE you and the yachtsman part company. For him, boating means pressurized water, electric lights - maybe even a shower on board - and a mortgage as hefty as the one on your home. For you, it means a warm place to lie down, a camp stove, a bath in the water you sail in, new cruising waters every time if you want, minimum financial investment, little risk, and no worry. Freedom, adventure, romance. These can all be yours if you can do without the luxury, once you stop thinking of your boat as a status symbol and start thinking of it instead as a ticket to freedom." So yes, I TOTALLY agree with you. I have camp gear I haven't used for years and this would be a perfect use for it. I've read the importance of considering what use you intend for the boat, frequency of use, where, etc. so as not to waste your time or money purchasing one. Well I love adventure and sailing seems to fit the bill. I learned in a channel, and the Potomac and Anacostia rivers in downtown Washington so I'd be sailing there and very conceiveably eventually on the Chesapeake as well because my long term objectives are to learn enough to sail down the coast and perhaps into the Carribean and beyond. But you have to start somewhere and first I had to learn how to sail.
Now as the next step I need to hone my skills on a slightly larger boat of my own. So although eager and excited I also can appreciate the significance of the purchase of my first boat and the role it will play so if I seem restrained that's why. That's the long answer. The short answer is: I have no problem with there not being a galley. ;D
But how do you return to normalacy???
Whoa. That 'is' an unlikely voyage. An 11' foot boat? I'll check it out. Sorry for the delay but you know how stuff shows up and you can get side-tracked, but I wanted to get back to you about that because the book I was telling you about has similar exploits. For example they discuss the disabled Englishman Captain John MacGregor who designed a series of "light, shallow-draft doublenders, which he called "Rob Roy" canoes, and sailed them more than 1,000 miles through the waters of England, Scandinavia, Europe, and Palestine." It doesn't say how large they were but they resembled "sailing kayaks". From my reading it seems by and large, sailing generally wasn't done so much for pleasure as for work, by the working class until the 19th century. Here are some more gems for you that you may find interesting: "in 1876 Alfred Johnson sailed his 20' dory Centennial across the Atlantic in a rugged 46-day passage." Whoa. "The next year, Thomas Crapo of New Bedford sailed his 19' schooner-rigged dory across the Atlantic." "In 1880, two gentlemen sailed their 16' cutter Great Western to England." "1891 saw Josiah Lawlor sail his 15' sprit-rigged Sea Serpent in a transatlantic race (45 days) against William Andrews 15' gaff sloop." The next year Andrews made the crossing in a 14' boat. Gary Spiess crossed the Pacific in a 10' boat in 1981. But check this out about Robert Manry: He "sailed his 13' Tinkerbelle across the Atlantic in 78 days during the 60's. Suffocating in his job as the classified-ads manager for his Cleveland newspaper, Manry modified his family boat and put out to sea. We saw him at last in Falmouth, England, embraced by his family and surrounded by a jubilant throng of well-wishers and admirers. After all this time, I stillrember him, arms outstretched, frozen in his moment of triumph. But then what? The boat was crated and shipped home. Manry returned to his desk at the Plain Dealer. But how do you return to ordinary living after such an experience?" How could he return to normalacy?? I see you're up near Havre de Grace, ever check out Tidewater? I used to visit the one in Annapolis when I was still dreaming of owning a Hunter 33. I'd like to think that I'v grown quite a bit since then though. ;D I agree with you and think I'd LOVE owning a Ranger.
Whoa. That 'is' an unlikely voyage. An 11' foot boat? I'll check it out. Sorry for the delay but you know how stuff shows up and you can get side-tracked, but I wanted to get back to you about that because the book I was telling you about has similar exploits. For example they discuss the disabled Englishman Captain John MacGregor who designed a series of "light, shallow-draft doublenders, which he called "Rob Roy" canoes, and sailed them more than 1,000 miles through the waters of England, Scandinavia, Europe, and Palestine." It doesn't say how large they were but they resembled "sailing kayaks". From my reading it seems by and large, sailing generally wasn't done so much for pleasure as for work, by the working class until the 19th century. Here are some more gems for you that you may find interesting: "in 1876 Alfred Johnson sailed his 20' dory Centennial across the Atlantic in a rugged 46-day passage." Whoa. "The next year, Thomas Crapo of New Bedford sailed his 19' schooner-rigged dory across the Atlantic." "In 1880, two gentlemen sailed their 16' cutter Great Western to England." "1891 saw Josiah Lawlor sail his 15' sprit-rigged Sea Serpent in a transatlantic race (45 days) against William Andrews 15' gaff sloop." The next year Andrews made the crossing in a 14' boat. Gary Spiess crossed the Pacific in a 10' boat in 1981. But check this out about Robert Manry: He "sailed his 13' Tinkerbelle across the Atlantic in 78 days during the 60's. Suffocating in his job as the classified-ads manager for his Cleveland newspaper, Manry modified his family boat and put out to sea. We saw him at last in Falmouth, England, embraced by his family and surrounded by a jubilant throng of well-wishers and admirers. After all this time, I stillrember him, arms outstretched, frozen in his moment of triumph. But then what? The boat was crated and shipped home. Manry returned to his desk at the Plain Dealer. But how do you return to ordinary living after such an experience?" How could he return to normalacy?? I see you're up near Havre de Grace, ever check out Tidewater? I used to visit the one in Annapolis when I was still dreaming of owning a Hunter 33. I'd like to think that I'v grown quite a bit since then though. ;D I agree with you and think I'd LOVE owning a Ranger.
Single handing
Hey Ross, another question I have is probably stupid but just the same, are the 22's good at being single handed? That's a serious consideration for me because I've read how difficult it can be to get a crew and so as a result, people don't use their boats.
Hey Ross, another question I have is probably stupid but just the same, are the 22's good at being single handed? That's a serious consideration for me because I've read how difficult it can be to get a crew and so as a result, people don't use their boats.
Nodachi, the ease with which a boat can be
single handed is determined by how the control lines are arranged. I watched a cruising sailor sail into Rock Hall harbor alone, turn around and sail out, tacking a couple of times along the way. He didn't seem to be rushed about anything and did a fine job of showing the rest of us how it should be done.
single handed is determined by how the control lines are arranged. I watched a cruising sailor sail into Rock Hall harbor alone, turn around and sail out, tacking a couple of times along the way. He didn't seem to be rushed about anything and did a fine job of showing the rest of us how it should be done.
ok then...
...that's the significance of having the "lines lead aft" because of the convenience. I've looked at a lot of the pictures trying to determine if this was the case because this is very important to me. As I said, I've been going out as much as possible on Flying Scots and we aren't allowed to take them out without a crew member, so frequently I've just wanted - and had - "a body". But that "body" has come in handy not only during tacks and gybes, but holding the tiller while raising and lowering the sails. That being the case I was wondering about the ease of performing these same tasks with the 22, but it's a matter of the lines leading aft, that from the pictures, I suppose they do. Thanks again. The draft is 4'3" so although that doesn't sound very deep to me do you consider it deep for launching off a ramp?
...that's the significance of having the "lines lead aft" because of the convenience. I've looked at a lot of the pictures trying to determine if this was the case because this is very important to me. As I said, I've been going out as much as possible on Flying Scots and we aren't allowed to take them out without a crew member, so frequently I've just wanted - and had - "a body". But that "body" has come in handy not only during tacks and gybes, but holding the tiller while raising and lowering the sails. That being the case I was wondering about the ease of performing these same tasks with the 22, but it's a matter of the lines leading aft, that from the pictures, I suppose they do. Thanks again. The draft is 4'3" so although that doesn't sound very deep to me do you consider it deep for launching off a ramp?
4'3" draft sounds about right for the Chesapeake
and environs as there is a lot of skinny water around. As far as trailering I believe you will find that the biggest limitation will be the ramps that you choose to launch from. Will they allow you to get the 4' depth you will need to float your boat without inundating your vehicle? There are some tricks that trailer sailors use such as tongue extenders and you can disconnect the trailer from your vehicle and slide it furthur into the water as long as it is held by a rope tied to your car. You have not purchased a boat yet? You are going to love stepping and unstepping the mast. Good luck.
and environs as there is a lot of skinny water around. As far as trailering I believe you will find that the biggest limitation will be the ramps that you choose to launch from. Will they allow you to get the 4' depth you will need to float your boat without inundating your vehicle? There are some tricks that trailer sailors use such as tongue extenders and you can disconnect the trailer from your vehicle and slide it furthur into the water as long as it is held by a rope tied to your car. You have not purchased a boat yet? You are going to love stepping and unstepping the mast. Good luck.
Righhht
I don't know for certain what the depths are for the ramps in the marinas around here yet, but I've seen a few leading into the Potomac from a distance and they looked fairly gradual in slope so I was only guessing the water must be shallow. I should have mentioned this guy at work who knows boats and he was telling me how "difficult" it was to launch a fixed keel boat from the ramp and suggests a swing keel. But I like the design of the Ranger, its history, and I'm familiar with its designer. I'm not trying to talk myself out of owning a boat but I've been so stoked on this idea, I don't want to dismiss my logic because boats do have that emotional appeal. Have you heard the arguments thrown at you about "the 2 happiest days of your life being...etc" and "a boat is a hole in the water that you...etc"??? And this coming from sailors mind you. Anyway, like most average people, I have financial obligations that I'm trying to manage but at the same time, I think, there's usually 'always' 'something' that will come along to mess up the works so that there's seldom the "perfect" time to do anything, so you just have to go for it when you can. With that in mind, I figured if you carefully thought it through, researched, and figured out what sort of sailing you'd like and the right boat for it that you could reasonably afford - that this should be possible. As a part of it I started saving a short time ago in what I call my "boat fund" because I'm not going to borrow to get her. I hope you're not kidding me about being able to slide the trailer further into the water because the displacement is at least 2182 lbs. If not, that's good news. But I 'do' think you're putting me on about stepping the mast. ;D
I don't know for certain what the depths are for the ramps in the marinas around here yet, but I've seen a few leading into the Potomac from a distance and they looked fairly gradual in slope so I was only guessing the water must be shallow. I should have mentioned this guy at work who knows boats and he was telling me how "difficult" it was to launch a fixed keel boat from the ramp and suggests a swing keel. But I like the design of the Ranger, its history, and I'm familiar with its designer. I'm not trying to talk myself out of owning a boat but I've been so stoked on this idea, I don't want to dismiss my logic because boats do have that emotional appeal. Have you heard the arguments thrown at you about "the 2 happiest days of your life being...etc" and "a boat is a hole in the water that you...etc"??? And this coming from sailors mind you. Anyway, like most average people, I have financial obligations that I'm trying to manage but at the same time, I think, there's usually 'always' 'something' that will come along to mess up the works so that there's seldom the "perfect" time to do anything, so you just have to go for it when you can. With that in mind, I figured if you carefully thought it through, researched, and figured out what sort of sailing you'd like and the right boat for it that you could reasonably afford - that this should be possible. As a part of it I started saving a short time ago in what I call my "boat fund" because I'm not going to borrow to get her. I hope you're not kidding me about being able to slide the trailer further into the water because the displacement is at least 2182 lbs. If not, that's good news. But I 'do' think you're putting me on about stepping the mast. ;D
Re: First boat for the Chesapeake
My first/only boat is a Catalina 22 with a swing keel--you might check out the Catalinas. They are sturdy, reliable, and there are many others owners in the area (Fleet 10 of Catalina 22 national association). The swing keel has gotten me out of many a grounding since my depth meter has been dysfunctional. A member of Fleet 10 posted his 1984 for sale ($4400) recently because he has been transferred out west. If you're interested, I can post his contact info. If you want to come along on one of my sails I can give you that info, too.
My first/only boat is a Catalina 22 with a swing keel--you might check out the Catalinas. They are sturdy, reliable, and there are many others owners in the area (Fleet 10 of Catalina 22 national association). The swing keel has gotten me out of many a grounding since my depth meter has been dysfunctional. A member of Fleet 10 posted his 1984 for sale ($4400) recently because he has been transferred out west. If you're interested, I can post his contact info. If you want to come along on one of my sails I can give you that info, too.
Perfect
First of all, thank you for taking the time to answer my email. I'm glad to hear this is your "first/only boat" because you're still not that far removed from where I am psychologically as far as preparing to buy my first one. The Catalina 22 is another boat that I've considered because it 'does' seem to be pretty popular. What was your experience sailing prior to purchasing? What made you purchase a boat and how'd 'you' go about it? This guy at work today was telling me - he'd owned a Catalina 30 - I should consider renting because owning a boat is a lot of work and he spent most of his time on her. Do you agree with him? I think he's soured on boats and that he may have purchased too much boat, but I don't know. What were the factors that guided your decision in knowing which boat(your Catalina) to purchase? I'm presently still in the researching phase (as well as still saving) so I'm unprepared to purchase my boat yet. Sure, I appreciate the invitation and I can be easily reached @ nodachix@yahoo.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to answer my email. I'm glad to hear this is your "first/only boat" because you're still not that far removed from where I am psychologically as far as preparing to buy my first one. The Catalina 22 is another boat that I've considered because it 'does' seem to be pretty popular. What was your experience sailing prior to purchasing? What made you purchase a boat and how'd 'you' go about it? This guy at work today was telling me - he'd owned a Catalina 30 - I should consider renting because owning a boat is a lot of work and he spent most of his time on her. Do you agree with him? I think he's soured on boats and that he may have purchased too much boat, but I don't know. What were the factors that guided your decision in knowing which boat(your Catalina) to purchase? I'm presently still in the researching phase (as well as still saving) so I'm unprepared to purchase my boat yet. Sure, I appreciate the invitation and I can be easily reached @ nodachix@yahoo.
great choice
Spent almost three yrs. looking for my first sailboat bought a ranger 22 I had virtualy no sailing exper. almost didn't buy it because I was afraid I only wanted it because of it's good looks. Stepping the mast is a pain so I dry sail it. The deep keel makes launching difficut at many ramps, they come with a lift point attached to the keel so I winch it in the water. I sail it in S.F. Bay that deep 900 lbs.keel that is some what of a pain to otherwise launch is a real blessing when the wind gets stronger then you expected as in 30 to 40 mph. gusts. I made it safely back to port with just the main (unreefed) 4 other boats were de-masted 2 were capsized the same day. The ranger 22 responds quickly to tiller input like a dingy, has "wheather" helm if the sails are unbalanced in big wind, the traveler divides you from the "crew", has a multitude of adjustments to sail shape that can be daunting doesn't like to slow down comeing to the dock so you need to de power the sails earlier than you think Every time I go out I learn a little more about "triming for speed" great fist boat I sail it single handed often. it's short comings, difficult to launch at some ramps needs water under the keel(get a depthmeter) hard to sail to it's potential(you are always challanged)If you want a motor on it,it needs a real long shaft as the "mount" is high(in chop it lets the motor out of the water at times)not good for water pump mine still works but I worry about it
Spent almost three yrs. looking for my first sailboat bought a ranger 22 I had virtualy no sailing exper. almost didn't buy it because I was afraid I only wanted it because of it's good looks. Stepping the mast is a pain so I dry sail it. The deep keel makes launching difficut at many ramps, they come with a lift point attached to the keel so I winch it in the water. I sail it in S.F. Bay that deep 900 lbs.keel that is some what of a pain to otherwise launch is a real blessing when the wind gets stronger then you expected as in 30 to 40 mph. gusts. I made it safely back to port with just the main (unreefed) 4 other boats were de-masted 2 were capsized the same day. The ranger 22 responds quickly to tiller input like a dingy, has "wheather" helm if the sails are unbalanced in big wind, the traveler divides you from the "crew", has a multitude of adjustments to sail shape that can be daunting doesn't like to slow down comeing to the dock so you need to de power the sails earlier than you think Every time I go out I learn a little more about "triming for speed" great fist boat I sail it single handed often. it's short comings, difficult to launch at some ramps needs water under the keel(get a depthmeter) hard to sail to it's potential(you are always challanged)If you want a motor on it,it needs a real long shaft as the "mount" is high(in chop it lets the motor out of the water at times)not good for water pump mine still works but I worry about it
Reply to "Great Choice"
*yks Wow!!!!!!!! Thannnnnnnk Youuuuuuuu. Ok, 3 years, that tells me I'm on the right track, but tell me, if you had "virtually no sailing experience" how'd you come to settle on the Ranger? I mean did you talk to people? It 'is' a good looking boat though but from what I've read, it seems like she's more than just a pretty face. ;D Great information about that keel: launching, lift point (I didn't know this), and especially the "is a real blessing when the wind gets stronger then you expected as in 30 to 40 mph. gusts." I read weather helm is the tendency for drag on the rudder is it not? If so, what did you mean by "has wheather helm if the sails are unbalanced in big wind"? What's the relationship? I helped step a mast on the Flying Scot but what is "dry sailing" and what does that have to do with stepping the mast? I thought dry sailing was when the boat was left on the trailer. No? "Chop" is choppy water right? So the motor being mounted high comes out of the water affects the water pump? Why would that be? *oYou may wonder from my questions how or why I want to sail and buy a boat but as I said in my first post, there's A LOT I still don't know so please excuse my ignorance and my questions.
*yks Wow!!!!!!!! Thannnnnnnk Youuuuuuuu.
Ok, 3 years, that tells me I'm on the right track, but tell me, if you had "virtually no sailing experience" how'd you come to settle on the Ranger? I mean did you talk to people? It 'is' a good looking boat though but from what I've read, it seems like she's more than just a pretty face. ;D Great information about that keel: launching, lift point (I didn't know this), and especially the "is a real blessing when the wind gets stronger then you expected as in 30 to 40 mph. gusts." I read weather helm is the tendency for drag on the rudder is it not? If so, what did you mean by "has wheather helm if the sails are unbalanced in big wind"? What's the relationship? I helped step a mast on the Flying Scot but what is "dry sailing" and what does that have to do with stepping the mast? I thought dry sailing was when the boat was left on the trailer. No? "Chop" is choppy water right? So the motor being mounted high comes out of the water affects the water pump? Why would that be? *oYou may wonder from my questions how or why I want to sail and buy a boat but as I said in my first post, there's A LOT I still don't know so please excuse my ignorance and my questions. great choice 2
dry sailing is leaveing the boat on the trailer or dolly only you leave it rigged(mast up etc) much like haveing a wet berth in the marina. Most fin keel boat have some wheather helm. While I am not knowleged enough to explain center of effort I'll try to explain my understanding of what causes wheather helm. First let me say that it is possible "steer" a sailboat without a rudder with just sail trim and weight transfer. The sail is just like an airplane wing it makes "lift" when air travels around it, airplanes have flaps that create more lift. The attitude of the plane changes with the flaps down. Triming sails through use of vang,sheets etc. changes where the effort(lift)occurs, balanced triming of the sails keeps energy even fore and aft of the center of effort for a particular boat unbalanced means you are trying balance the sails driving energy with the rudder & yes that produces drag Outboard motors have water pumps to cool the motor they do NOT like to be dry, when the motor comes out of the water the can't draw water in. Truth be told I finally chose the Ranger because I wanted a bigger boat(dreams of tahiti)reality was I couldn't afford the money or time. This one had everything the "big boys" have knot depth compass marine radio and the guy had given it a lot of love. Too many of the boats I looked at hadn't inspired their owners to have pride in their boats all the other Ranger 22s I looked at weren't for sale and were well cared, for that made me think the boat didn.t lose the owners interest
dry sailing is leaveing the boat on the trailer or dolly only you leave it rigged(mast up etc) much like haveing a wet berth in the marina. Most fin keel boat have some wheather helm. While I am not knowleged enough to explain center of effort I'll try to explain my understanding of what causes wheather helm. First let me say that it is possible "steer" a sailboat without a rudder with just sail trim and weight transfer. The sail is just like an airplane wing it makes "lift" when air travels around it, airplanes have flaps that create more lift. The attitude of the plane changes with the flaps down. Triming sails through use of vang,sheets etc. changes where the effort(lift)occurs, balanced triming of the sails keeps energy even fore and aft of the center of effort for a particular boat unbalanced means you are trying balance the sails driving energy with the rudder & yes that produces drag Outboard motors have water pumps to cool the motor they do NOT like to be dry, when the motor comes out of the water the can't draw water in. Truth be told I finally chose the Ranger because I wanted a bigger boat(dreams of tahiti)reality was I couldn't afford the money or time. This one had everything the "big boys" have knot depth compass marine radio and the guy had given it a lot of love. Too many of the boats I looked at hadn't inspired their owners to have pride in their boats all the other Ranger 22s I looked at weren't for sale and were well cared, for that made me think the boat didn.t lose the owners interest
great choice 2
dry sailing is leaveing the boat on the trailer or dolly only you leave it rigged(mast up etc) much like haveing a wet berth in the marina. Most fin keel boat have some wheather helm. While I am not knowleged enough to explain center of effort I'll try to explain my understanding of what causes wheather helm. First let me say that it is possible "steer" a sailboat without a rudder with just sail trim and weight transfer. The sail is just like an airplane wing it makes "lift" when air travels around it, airplanes have flaps that create more lift. The attitude of the plane changes with the flaps down. Triming sails through use of vang,sheets etc. changes where the effort(lift)occurs, balanced triming of the sails keeps energy even fore and aft of the center of effort for a particular boat unbalanced means you are trying balance the sails driving energy with the rudder & yes that produces drag Outboard motors have water pumps to cool the motor they do NOT like to be dry, when the motor comes out of the water the can't draw water in. Truth be told I finally chose the Ranger because I wanted a bigger boat(dreams of tahiti)reality was I couldn't afford the money or time. This one had everything the "big boys" have knot depth compass marine radio and the guy had given it a lot of love. Too many of the boats I looked at hadn't inspired their owners to have pride in their boats all the other Ranger 22s I looked at weren't for sale and were well cared, for that made me think the boat didn.t lose the owners interest
dry sailing is leaveing the boat on the trailer or dolly only you leave it rigged(mast up etc) much like haveing a wet berth in the marina. Most fin keel boat have some wheather helm. While I am not knowleged enough to explain center of effort I'll try to explain my understanding of what causes wheather helm. First let me say that it is possible "steer" a sailboat without a rudder with just sail trim and weight transfer. The sail is just like an airplane wing it makes "lift" when air travels around it, airplanes have flaps that create more lift. The attitude of the plane changes with the flaps down. Triming sails through use of vang,sheets etc. changes where the effort(lift)occurs, balanced triming of the sails keeps energy even fore and aft of the center of effort for a particular boat unbalanced means you are trying balance the sails driving energy with the rudder & yes that produces drag Outboard motors have water pumps to cool the motor they do NOT like to be dry, when the motor comes out of the water the can't draw water in. Truth be told I finally chose the Ranger because I wanted a bigger boat(dreams of tahiti)reality was I couldn't afford the money or time. This one had everything the "big boys" have knot depth compass marine radio and the guy had given it a lot of love. Too many of the boats I looked at hadn't inspired their owners to have pride in their boats all the other Ranger 22s I looked at weren't for sale and were well cared, for that made me think the boat didn.t lose the owners interest
Professor Zube
Listen, I don't wish to over do this but I really do appreciate you response. I'd been checking my mail because I wanted to know the answers to the questions I asked - even if they seemed quite naive to you sailors who already knew the answers. A lady friend of mine familiar with sailing told me when I first started talking about boats that I'd "been bitten". Maybe so, maybe so. But anyway I'd heard that expression "dry sailing" and had no idea what it was but your explanation(s) cleared up everything for me. I didn't know that about the water pump but it makes a lot of sense because I understand Muller raked the transom forward for aerodynamic design since it's a racer and so as a consequence when mounted a "long shaft" would be required in order to submerge the water pump. Gotcha. Yeah, you know I've read it's possible to steer a boat with the sails and balance so ok, it makes sense now what you're saying about imbalanced sails being the source of weather helm. Nice scholarly dissertation Professor Zube. Tahiti. Yeah, I hear you. We had similar ambitions. I settled in to working for the gov't and thought "Well, no more adventures." And sailboats occurred to me and I thought, "Hmmm. You could learn to sail, which would be an adventure in itself, and then sail down the coast to the Carribean or maybe eventually to Rio!!!" So I learned to sail last spring and dreamt about a Hunter 33 upon retirement. But about a month ago I sailed that 30' and I thought of the responsiveness of the Scot and I started reconsidering a 'good' smaller boat would be more economically feasible with the same benefits of a larger one and I wouldn't have to wait until retirement to begin my sailing adventures. I read on a site giving advice to people selling their boats how important presentation is because it's a sure enough clue to how the boat was treated. Anyway, thanks again Zube. You've been a well-spring of information.
Listen, I don't wish to over do this but I really do appreciate you response. I'd been checking my mail because I wanted to know the answers to the questions I asked - even if they seemed quite naive to you sailors who already knew the answers. A lady friend of mine familiar with sailing told me when I first started talking about boats that I'd "been bitten". Maybe so, maybe so. But anyway I'd heard that expression "dry sailing" and had no idea what it was but your explanation(s) cleared up everything for me. I didn't know that about the water pump but it makes a lot of sense because I understand Muller raked the transom forward for aerodynamic design since it's a racer and so as a consequence when mounted a "long shaft" would be required in order to submerge the water pump. Gotcha. Yeah, you know I've read it's possible to steer a boat with the sails and balance so ok, it makes sense now what you're saying about imbalanced sails being the source of weather helm. Nice scholarly dissertation Professor Zube. Tahiti. Yeah, I hear you. We had similar ambitions. I settled in to working for the gov't and thought "Well, no more adventures." And sailboats occurred to me and I thought, "Hmmm. You could learn to sail, which would be an adventure in itself, and then sail down the coast to the Carribean or maybe eventually to Rio!!!" So I learned to sail last spring and dreamt about a Hunter 33 upon retirement. But about a month ago I sailed that 30' and I thought of the responsiveness of the Scot and I started reconsidering a 'good' smaller boat would be more economically feasible with the same benefits of a larger one and I wouldn't have to wait until retirement to begin my sailing adventures. I read on a site giving advice to people selling their boats how important presentation is because it's a sure enough clue to how the boat was treated. Anyway, thanks again Zube. You've been a well-spring of information.
Another advantage of dry sailing is
the reduced maintenance of the hull as virtually no marine growth grows on it if it is stored on a trailer whereas wet storage allows growth and slime and (worst of all) barnacles that requires at least yearly maintenance. Bottom growth greatly reduces a boats potential speed. Dry sailors leave there mast stepped with the boat on the trailer. If you step and unstep the mast you are trailer sailing and you will find out what a PITA (not the bread either) this task can be. You need at least a 12 pack and your 2 biggest friends (Bubba and Buddy perhaps) to help out. Of course there are some easier ways to do this; most obvious is access to a crane but this is rarely available at a launching ramp. Other shortcuts involve a gin pole and A frame setup for stepping/unstepping the mast. If you are truly worried about launch ramps I would go with the Catalina 22 swing keel (centerboard) as ms_purplesagesailor mentioned. A centerboard boat will be much easier to get off the bottom once you find it. The only ramp near you that I have used is at Colonial Beach VA (quite a bit south of you) to launch a Mariner 19' (also swing keel) and even there the tide can play a factor in ease of launch. There are so many good sailing areas near you so it could be great to trailer to all those places instead of taking days to sail there (plus slip/mooring fees along the way). Do you have a place to safely store a boat on its trailer and is your vehicle big enough to tow your intended? This is the easiest way of making owning a boat A LOT cheaper. Good luck.
the reduced maintenance of the hull as virtually no marine growth grows on it if it is stored on a trailer whereas wet storage allows growth and slime and (worst of all) barnacles that requires at least yearly maintenance. Bottom growth greatly reduces a boats potential speed. Dry sailors leave there mast stepped with the boat on the trailer. If you step and unstep the mast you are trailer sailing and you will find out what a PITA (not the bread either) this task can be. You need at least a 12 pack and your 2 biggest friends (Bubba and Buddy perhaps) to help out. Of course there are some easier ways to do this; most obvious is access to a crane but this is rarely available at a launching ramp. Other shortcuts involve a gin pole and A frame setup for stepping/unstepping the mast. If you are truly worried about launch ramps I would go with the Catalina 22 swing keel (centerboard) as ms_purplesagesailor mentioned. A centerboard boat will be much easier to get off the bottom once you find it. The only ramp near you that I have used is at Colonial Beach VA (quite a bit south of you) to launch a Mariner 19' (also swing keel) and even there the tide can play a factor in ease of launch. There are so many good sailing areas near you so it could be great to trailer to all those places instead of taking days to sail there (plus slip/mooring fees along the way). Do you have a place to safely store a boat on its trailer and is your vehicle big enough to tow your intended? This is the easiest way of making owning a boat A LOT cheaper. Good luck.
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