I have an 1976 o-day 25 and it needs a rewire job would like to replace the fuse panel and add a new battery meter also connections to recharge the battery from the outboard or shore power---any suggestions where to start
complete rewire
- Thread starter Dan Hier
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These guys are great.
http://www.bluesea.com/ I used them for my re-wire work. As far as the actual wire, well, the usual suspects are the way to go. It's better to stay away from automotive wire for a couple of reasons. First, it is not tinned. Although all of the old untinned wire in my boat was still working when I re-wired, it was ugly. I was able to re-use much of the Ancor wire on the A/C side. Second, marine wire is AWG. That means it has a larger cross section, size for size, than automotive wire. If you are a newbie to this wiring stuff, the first thing to know is NEVER use solid wire in a boat. It's guaranteed to break because boats move. Have fun. Most of the work is fun. (except snaking) There are several wiring pictures on my web site that might give you an idea or two. Photo #3 is 'before' Photos #29-31 are after, as are 102,107 and 108.
http://www.bluesea.com/ I used them for my re-wire work. As far as the actual wire, well, the usual suspects are the way to go. It's better to stay away from automotive wire for a couple of reasons. First, it is not tinned. Although all of the old untinned wire in my boat was still working when I re-wired, it was ugly. I was able to re-use much of the Ancor wire on the A/C side. Second, marine wire is AWG. That means it has a larger cross section, size for size, than automotive wire. If you are a newbie to this wiring stuff, the first thing to know is NEVER use solid wire in a boat. It's guaranteed to break because boats move. Have fun. Most of the work is fun. (except snaking) There are several wiring pictures on my web site that might give you an idea or two. Photo #3 is 'before' Photos #29-31 are after, as are 102,107 and 108.
A couple of ideas about tools...
I've completely rewired my Mac25. I highly recommend breaking down and buying a few tools, including a wire snake, automatic stripper, soldering iron, digital meter, and simple continutity tester. The snake was by far the best investment. I fought for hours trying to route cables that only took a minute to finish with the snake. I relied heavily on West and their advisor series for tips, and particularly like the device shown in the RELATED LINK. My wiring included installed VHF radio with remote mic and mast-top antenna, solar charging equipment, mast lighting, auto tiller, NMEA repeater, depth sounder, new dual battery meter and switch/fuse panel, and a few other odds and ends. I tried to use first class matierals and did the best workmanship I knew how. Results are very satisfying. Would be happy to share anything I learned from the experience.
I've completely rewired my Mac25. I highly recommend breaking down and buying a few tools, including a wire snake, automatic stripper, soldering iron, digital meter, and simple continutity tester. The snake was by far the best investment. I fought for hours trying to route cables that only took a minute to finish with the snake. I relied heavily on West and their advisor series for tips, and particularly like the device shown in the RELATED LINK. My wiring included installed VHF radio with remote mic and mast-top antenna, solar charging equipment, mast lighting, auto tiller, NMEA repeater, depth sounder, new dual battery meter and switch/fuse panel, and a few other odds and ends. I tried to use first class matierals and did the best workmanship I knew how. Results are very satisfying. Would be happy to share anything I learned from the experience.
My opinion
I have not rewired (yest) but I have done a few projects. I think ABYC standard is not soldering but crimp and heat shrink connectors. I bought a kit through west marine (not cheap) but is a good start. I just needed a pair of wire strippers and needle nose and I was in business. Dan B s/v Sotto Voce Catalina 27 #653
I have not rewired (yest) but I have done a few projects. I think ABYC standard is not soldering but crimp and heat shrink connectors. I bought a kit through west marine (not cheap) but is a good start. I just needed a pair of wire strippers and needle nose and I was in business. Dan B s/v Sotto Voce Catalina 27 #653
In process
I'm rewiring, along with re everything else, this summer. Jack Rabbit Marine (http://www.jackrabbitmarine.com/(2f1qkn452q2lfm45wme4cgei)/Default.aspx) gives out good info and planning assist. Will sell you materials at better than other catalogue prices. They carry all the better brands but don't try to sell you more than you need.
I'm rewiring, along with re everything else, this summer. Jack Rabbit Marine (http://www.jackrabbitmarine.com/(2f1qkn452q2lfm45wme4cgei)/Default.aspx) gives out good info and planning assist. Will sell you materials at better than other catalogue prices. They carry all the better brands but don't try to sell you more than you need.
Some more wiring hints.....
One of the first things you'll notice when rewiring a boat is that it is EXPENSIVE! After a good bit of searching, I found a place called www.bestboatwire.com that has great prices (1/3 of W.M. price) and good service. Their wire is full marine spec and of very high quality. They also carry the crimp connectors, heat shrink, etc. They're located in Florida and usually drop ship direct from the factory the day after you order. Highly recommended! As to crimp vs. solder, IMHO, soldering is not the way to go. First, to be ABYC compliant, you have to crimp the wire before you solder it, second, the solder makes the conductor rigid right at the connection and that could lead to fatigue breakage. My preferred method is to first coat the bare strands of wire with anti-corrosion gel, then insert into the connector and crimp. Dress that with a piece of adhesive lined heat-shrink and you're good to go. Also, be very careful with those 'automatic' wire strippers, as they often have a tendancy to nick the outer strands of the wire and you really don't want that. A old-fashioned manual stripper is really better, the ones made by Klein Tools are my favorite, as they are professional grade and very well made. As to the crimping tool, a ratcheting 'controlled-cycle' type is your best bet, as it will insure consistency and quality of each crimp. When you get a 'wiresnake' (actually, it's known as a 'fishtape') you should also get something known as a 'worm' to go on the end of it. A 'worm' is a tightly wound spring that helps the fishtape get around sharp corners and it can really make it easier to use. And, trust me, you are going to need a fishtape! Another thing to do, when you first get the fishtape, is to cut-off about the first 2 feet of it to make a seperate, short 'wire grabber'. BTW, this is usually called a 'fishstick'. (us electricians have a lot of weird names for things, kinda like sailors!) Well, thats my two cents worth! Have fun with your wiring project! Jeff
One of the first things you'll notice when rewiring a boat is that it is EXPENSIVE! After a good bit of searching, I found a place called www.bestboatwire.com that has great prices (1/3 of W.M. price) and good service. Their wire is full marine spec and of very high quality. They also carry the crimp connectors, heat shrink, etc. They're located in Florida and usually drop ship direct from the factory the day after you order. Highly recommended! As to crimp vs. solder, IMHO, soldering is not the way to go. First, to be ABYC compliant, you have to crimp the wire before you solder it, second, the solder makes the conductor rigid right at the connection and that could lead to fatigue breakage. My preferred method is to first coat the bare strands of wire with anti-corrosion gel, then insert into the connector and crimp. Dress that with a piece of adhesive lined heat-shrink and you're good to go. Also, be very careful with those 'automatic' wire strippers, as they often have a tendancy to nick the outer strands of the wire and you really don't want that. A old-fashioned manual stripper is really better, the ones made by Klein Tools are my favorite, as they are professional grade and very well made. As to the crimping tool, a ratcheting 'controlled-cycle' type is your best bet, as it will insure consistency and quality of each crimp. When you get a 'wiresnake' (actually, it's known as a 'fishtape') you should also get something known as a 'worm' to go on the end of it. A 'worm' is a tightly wound spring that helps the fishtape get around sharp corners and it can really make it easier to use. And, trust me, you are going to need a fishtape! Another thing to do, when you first get the fishtape, is to cut-off about the first 2 feet of it to make a seperate, short 'wire grabber'. BTW, this is usually called a 'fishstick'. (us electricians have a lot of weird names for things, kinda like sailors!) Well, thats my two cents worth! Have fun with your wiring project! Jeff
check out panels from Bass products
I ended up keeping the panel I had and changing a couple of the breakers out, but Bass Products I think are better than the brands carried by WM.
I ended up keeping the panel I had and changing a couple of the breakers out, but Bass Products I think are better than the brands carried by WM.
Wire - look for a non-WM suppy
in the St. Pete area there is a supplier - AIM - that carries a full range of wire at much lower prices. You have to buy a 25, 50 or 100 ft. spools - depending on the gauge - but the cost is so low, it is worth it. Look around. Find a copy of the Business yellow pages, since they may not advertise in the consumer yellow pages. There is probably something in your area. Be sure to go with marine grade wire.
in the St. Pete area there is a supplier - AIM - that carries a full range of wire at much lower prices. You have to buy a 25, 50 or 100 ft. spools - depending on the gauge - but the cost is so low, it is worth it. Look around. Find a copy of the Business yellow pages, since they may not advertise in the consumer yellow pages. There is probably something in your area. Be sure to go with marine grade wire.
Jeff, Great idea's! Wish I would have known about
them, and this web site, when I started my wiring redo. Oh, more pictures are up this morning on my web site.
them, and this web site, when I started my wiring redo. Oh, more pictures are up this morning on my web site.
WM phobia
Better yet, take proof of price to them and get a price match, and earn the gift certificate rebate points too.
Better yet, take proof of price to them and get a price match, and earn the gift certificate rebate points too.
Blue Sea Has Nice Combination Panel
Blue Sea (www.bluesea.com) has a nifty panel (see link below) that has a battery selector switch with a selection of breakers. One of the breakers is heavy duty such as what could be used for a windlass but this could be changed out for a smaller amperage breaker. I selected this one for a sub-panel on my boat. Breakers are nice because they can be reset where as fuses have to be replaced. Perhaps exploring their web site one could find a battery selector switch panel which includes a meter that you want. If you like electronic stuff there are some nifty, but not cheap, battery monitoring devices. Jeff M has some excellent advice about how to make proper terminal connections. A friend of mine was an electronics tech with the Coast Guard and said they didn't solder connections either and for the same reason that Jeff mentioned. Upgrading the electrical system is an excellent idea because the original stuff probably has corrosion issues. However, as was previously stated, it won't be cheap. Maybe consider how long you plan to keep the boat and figure out how much you want to spend for the project to avoid putting too much into her that you can't get out. On the other hand, safety is important and a properly wired boat will be less prone to failures and problems. Seems like a fun project.
Blue Sea (www.bluesea.com) has a nifty panel (see link below) that has a battery selector switch with a selection of breakers. One of the breakers is heavy duty such as what could be used for a windlass but this could be changed out for a smaller amperage breaker. I selected this one for a sub-panel on my boat. Breakers are nice because they can be reset where as fuses have to be replaced. Perhaps exploring their web site one could find a battery selector switch panel which includes a meter that you want. If you like electronic stuff there are some nifty, but not cheap, battery monitoring devices. Jeff M has some excellent advice about how to make proper terminal connections. A friend of mine was an electronics tech with the Coast Guard and said they didn't solder connections either and for the same reason that Jeff mentioned. Upgrading the electrical system is an excellent idea because the original stuff probably has corrosion issues. However, as was previously stated, it won't be cheap. Maybe consider how long you plan to keep the boat and figure out how much you want to spend for the project to avoid putting too much into her that you can't get out. On the other hand, safety is important and a properly wired boat will be less prone to failures and problems. Seems like a fun project.
Triple Butt Connector
On the same subject. I was wondering what is the best way that satisifies ABYC to insulate a triple butt connector. Jeff, appreciate the website reference. Good Winds Dave s/v DAMWEGAS
On the same subject. I was wondering what is the best way that satisifies ABYC to insulate a triple butt connector. Jeff, appreciate the website reference. Good Winds Dave s/v DAMWEGAS
insulate a triple butt connector
Dave, do you mean one of those pieces that are normally used to connect a blige pump switch and float? Forget about ABYC, the only way I can figure out how to do that is to use lots of liquid electrical goop. Stu
Dave, do you mean one of those pieces that are normally used to connect a blige pump switch and float? Forget about ABYC, the only way I can figure out how to do that is to use lots of liquid electrical goop. Stu
Stu, You got it
That is the one. Liquid elec. goop is the only way I can think of. I wondered if anyone else had come up with a more reliable approach for the three way butt connectors. Perhaps there is a better way to connect three butts together that I am not thinking of. Would love a suggestion. Thanks Good Winds Dave s/v DAMWEGAS
That is the one. Liquid elec. goop is the only way I can think of. I wondered if anyone else had come up with a more reliable approach for the three way butt connectors. Perhaps there is a better way to connect three butts together that I am not thinking of. Would love a suggestion. Thanks Good Winds Dave s/v DAMWEGAS
Step-Down Butt connectors
I’ve never been a fan of the “Triple” connectors - even after a good coating of Silicone Goop, the pressed hinge joint is susceptible to degradation & failure. It also makes for a bulky (inelegant) joint. I prefer to use “Step-Down” butt connectors for smaller wire sizes (they come in Yellow-Blue, Blue-Red combinations). For larger conductors, you can put all three conductors (no matter the various sizes) into one end of an appropriately sized (large) Butt-Splice sleeve, then seal the un-used end /w Silicone, crimp, and apply overall heat shrink. This works well with #10 or #8 AWG feeders, connected to #16 or #14 equipment leads (Float Sw, Pump Motor etc). Alternatively (tho’ I don’t), you could use a terminal block and ring connectors. Respectfully, Gord
I’ve never been a fan of the “Triple” connectors - even after a good coating of Silicone Goop, the pressed hinge joint is susceptible to degradation & failure. It also makes for a bulky (inelegant) joint. I prefer to use “Step-Down” butt connectors for smaller wire sizes (they come in Yellow-Blue, Blue-Red combinations). For larger conductors, you can put all three conductors (no matter the various sizes) into one end of an appropriately sized (large) Butt-Splice sleeve, then seal the un-used end /w Silicone, crimp, and apply overall heat shrink. This works well with #10 or #8 AWG feeders, connected to #16 or #14 equipment leads (Float Sw, Pump Motor etc). Alternatively (tho’ I don’t), you could use a terminal block and ring connectors. Respectfully, Gord
Make sure I understand what you mean...
by 'triple butt connector'. Are you talking about one of those things that is essentially three ring connectors with a rivet holding them all together? If so, I definitely wouldn't recommend using those goofy things. First time I saw one of those things I couldn't believe anybody would even bother to make them, and I sure can't imagine using one, especially on a boat! Personally, I can think of absolutely no circumstance where one of those things would be an appropriate choice. Gord has it right. If you must connect several wires in one splice, and they are of the same guage, use a butt connector that will accept all of the wires in one end, crimp, silicone and heat shrink. If the wires are of different guages, use a butt conn. large enough to hold the larger conductor in one end and the smaller wires in the other end. Again, DON'T use those 'triple ring' connectors, THEY'RE JUNK! West Marine and others who carry those things should have taken them off the shelves a long time ago! Jeff
by 'triple butt connector'. Are you talking about one of those things that is essentially three ring connectors with a rivet holding them all together? If so, I definitely wouldn't recommend using those goofy things. First time I saw one of those things I couldn't believe anybody would even bother to make them, and I sure can't imagine using one, especially on a boat! Personally, I can think of absolutely no circumstance where one of those things would be an appropriate choice. Gord has it right. If you must connect several wires in one splice, and they are of the same guage, use a butt connector that will accept all of the wires in one end, crimp, silicone and heat shrink. If the wires are of different guages, use a butt conn. large enough to hold the larger conductor in one end and the smaller wires in the other end. Again, DON'T use those 'triple ring' connectors, THEY'RE JUNK! West Marine and others who carry those things should have taken them off the shelves a long time ago! Jeff
Gord, what do you think of just using silicone?
On the shelf at your local Home Depot, will be underground waterproof electrical connectors for ac. If you open the blister pack and check out the construction of the connectors, the only thing that makes them waterproof is that they are filled with silicone grease. Isn't the shrink wrap redundant except for preventing a short? P.S. Gord, do you have a source for those 'trick' connectors? I've only seen one, once.
On the shelf at your local Home Depot, will be underground waterproof electrical connectors for ac. If you open the blister pack and check out the construction of the connectors, the only thing that makes them waterproof is that they are filled with silicone grease. Isn't the shrink wrap redundant except for preventing a short? P.S. Gord, do you have a source for those 'trick' connectors? I've only seen one, once.
Strep Down splices
Step-Down splices are available from West Marine, Pacer Marine, Lewis Marine, etc. I don't think Heat Shrink Sleeve is (exactly) redundant.
Step-Down splices are available from West Marine, Pacer Marine, Lewis Marine, etc. I don't think Heat Shrink Sleeve is (exactly) redundant.
Heat Shrink Acts As Strain Reliever
An advantage of heat shrink tubing is it acts as a good strain reliever between the wire and the connector, especially if one doesn't scrimp on it. Since engines, especially diesels, cause everything on the boat to vibrate somewhat so having that extra bit of strain relief helps the conductor system. Buy the stuff in bulk so it doesn't cost as much that way one can use a bit more than the minimum on the connectors.
An advantage of heat shrink tubing is it acts as a good strain reliever between the wire and the connector, especially if one doesn't scrimp on it. Since engines, especially diesels, cause everything on the boat to vibrate somewhat so having that extra bit of strain relief helps the conductor system. Buy the stuff in bulk so it doesn't cost as much that way one can use a bit more than the minimum on the connectors.
Good idea John.
I know several places to use that one. P.S. John, did you get to the boat to see the fireworks? It seemed like double the boats from about 10 years ago. The whole bay was full. But maybe I was gone too long.
I know several places to use that one. P.S. John, did you get to the boat to see the fireworks? It seemed like double the boats from about 10 years ago. The whole bay was full. But maybe I was gone too long.
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