Collision today

[Ron20324]

Folks, I was at the sailbpat today. The top of the stbd vee notch is about 40 inches along the toe rail. The bottom of the vee and the cracks go just down to the waterline. The tension on the lifelines pulled up a section of the pushpit. Cabin top crushed and windows popped out. The boat is an older modle J105 than I had pictured. I'll go back with my camera. It is on 2nd St at Back Creek, Eastport Yacht Yard. It is backed up to the fence along 2nd, and just across the street from the Annapolis Meritime Museum. Go see the concert Thursday at the AMM and check out the boat.

 

[SG]

As Ron20324 noted above there was this article that I've quoted below. You can read it in all its "glory".

The article in the Capital Gazette is a classic example of why I like to say "ink is one the most poisonous toxins known to man" -- 'ink', as in talking to the press.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/sports/sailing_boating/ac-cn-boat-collision-survivor-0827-story.html

Michael Andorsky was on the sailboat that was struck broadside by a power boat near Thomas Point on Aug 17. (Joshua McKerrow/Capital Gazette)


Crash survivor: 'All of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat'

Conditions were clear on Aug. 17 when he and his friend took out a J/105 sailboat that belongs to the Chesapeake Boating Club in Eastport, where Andorsky is a member.

He said he saw the power boat “way off in the distance” and knew they were probably on a collision course. Motorboats typically give way to a sailboat, so Andorsky said he stayed his course.

And then it was too late.

“I’m waving at the guy, yelling, and all of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat,” Andorsky said.

Andorsky was sitting in the back of the sailboat by the wheel and his friend was a couple feet in front of him on the port side. He said he believes he and his friend would have been killed if the powerboat struck much closer to the stern of his sailboat. And if the sailboat hadn’t been heeling to starboard, the powerboat could have broken it in half, he said.

After the collision, the people in the charter boat were above them, looking down at them. They asked if everyone was OK.
“I was just thinking that this is ridiculous, but how lucky we both are to be able to talk about it,” he said.

At home, Andorsky let his wife get used to seeing him, looking perfectly unscathed, before telling her what happened.

A friend’s wife put the photo of the collision on Facebook and the phone started ringing. He wrote his sister and brother-in-law to tease them about being powerboaters.

Andorsky expects to go sailing again soon. He has been sailing for about 20 years, ever since he took sailing lessons with his wife and “got bitten by the bug.”

He certainly walked away from the collision with a good sailing story.

But he said, “I hope it’s my last one.”

Staff writer Danielle Ohl contributed to this report.

 

[FDL S2]

As Ron20324 noted above there was this article that I've quoted below. You can read it in all its "glory".

The article in the Capital Gazette is a classic example of why I like to say "ink is one the most poisonous toxins known to man" -- 'ink', as in talking to the press.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/sports/sailing_boating/ac-cn-boat-collision-survivor-0827-story.html

View attachment 155550
Michael Andorsky was on the sailboat that was struck broadside by a power boat near Thomas Point on Aug 17. (Joshua McKerrow/Capital Gazette)


Crash survivor: 'All of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat'

Conditions were clear on Aug. 17 when he and his friend took out a J/105 sailboat that belongs to the Chesapeake Boating Club in Eastport, where Andorsky is a member.

He said he saw the power boat “way off in the distance” and knew they were probably on a collision course. Motorboats typically give way to a sailboat, so Andorsky said he stayed his course.

And then it was too late.

“I’m waving at the guy, yelling, and all of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat,” Andorsky said.

Andorsky was sitting in the back of the sailboat by the wheel and his friend was a couple feet in front of him on the port side. He said he believes he and his friend would have been killed if the powerboat struck much closer to the stern of his sailboat. And if the sailboat hadn’t been heeling to starboard, the powerboat could have broken it in half, he said.

After the collision, the people in the charter boat were above them, looking down at them. They asked if everyone was OK.
“I was just thinking that this is ridiculous, but how lucky we both are to be able to talk about it,” he said.

At home, Andorsky let his wife get used to seeing him, looking perfectly unscathed, before telling her what happened.

A friend’s wife put the photo of the collision on Facebook and the phone started ringing. He wrote his sister and brother-in-law to tease them about being powerboaters.

Andorsky expects to go sailing again soon. He has been sailing for about 20 years, ever since he took sailing lessons with his wife and “got bitten by the bug.”

He certainly walked away from the collision with a good sailing story.

But he said, “I hope it’s my last one.”

Staff writer Danielle Ohl contributed to this report.

His quote should have been "No Comment" or the more specific "I won't comment while there is an ongoing investigation." And nothing else. But it is hard not to talk when the news shows up at your door or (worse) catches you outside.

 

[jeepbluetj]

Open mouth, insert foot. Maybe the skipper of the J-105 doesn't know rule 2? And if so, what was quoted was not an optimal way to not get a larger portion of the blame.

 

[Daveinet]

It really sounds like they just misjudged the speed of the power boat, and likely thought they still had time to avoid contact. It still goes back to deciding when to move from being the stand on boat to a defensive position of avoidance.

It is also important to point out, that sometimes when something bad happens, our brains are limited in how many things we can process at once. They tried to hail the other boat. When that didn't work, ones instinctive nature is to try harder, rather than switching to a different solution. In an emergency, it is your normal reaction to narrow your focus. Many people will talk about how their vision narrows right before an accident. This is normal as you focus on the danger. This is where mental preparedness comes into play. Rehearse in your mind, the sequence of steps you will take, and at what point you will take them, so you don't get caught in the "tunnel".

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If it is true that the boat was heeled to starboard, I presume the sailboat was on port tack. Since the sailboat was hit on the starboard side, I think it is possible that the sails blocked the vision of the guys on the sailboat to some extent. I know that I frequently peak around the mainsail, but it's not possible to maintain a constant watch of the activities in my blind spot. Besides that, two older gentleman on a sailboat in broad daylight would probably never think that a power boat would actually just run them over. If they are like me, they may have been sailors for 20 years and never even had an unnerving incident. I've been on boats for 50 years and can't recall ever seeing anything like this personally.

I'm astonished that so many find so much fault with the sailor in a case where a power boat captain clearly was not watching where he was going for a long period of time. I've sailed for a lot of the time in very congested waters. I can guarantee that I've not paid close attention to every power boat that is headed in my direction. I don't have that 'holier than thou' attitude that insinuates that I'm on top of every situation all the time and I don't have an overwhelming desire to prove that I know every letter of Colregs. I'm just a normal guy on a sailboat with a normal amount of caution and situational awareness. If that makes some folks uncomfortable, so be it. I can perfectly understand that guy's reaction when he said "All of a sudden … "

I've spent a lot of my boating life zipping around in a boat at 30 to 40 mph. On a power boat, I can't imagine not knowing what is in front of me and around me 100% of the time. It's like driving a car, you can't divert your attention. A sailboat at 5 knots is obviously a lot different. If I felt like I had to pay 100% attention to all of the boats in my field of vision, 100% of the time, I guarantee you that I would give up sailing well within a short season. It would not be worth the effort. I basically sail with a fair amount of assumption that power boats see me and avoid me when I'm sailing.

That said, I've heard a few people say that the decisions that come out of some of these cases that involve Colregs don't always make a lot of sense. It will be interesting to learn more! In the meantime, did anybody else think that guy looks a lot like Tommy Lee Jones?!

 

[jviss]

I think it is possible that the sails blocked the vision of the guys on the sailboat to some extent.

You are ignoring what the guy said:

"He said he saw the power boat “way off in the distance” and knew they were probably on a collision course. Motorboats typically give way to a sailboat, so Andorsky said he stayed his course.

And then it was too late.

“I’m waving at the guy, yelling, and all of a sudden, his boat was sitting on top of our boat,” Andorsky said."​

If you see something bad is going to happen, and you do nothing to prevent it, if preventing it is in your power, then you bear some responsibility for the collision. So sayeth the Colregs.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I can guarantee that I've not paid close attention to every power boat that is headed in my direction. I don't have that 'holier than thou' attitude that insinuates that I'm on top of every situation all the time and I don't have an overwhelming desire to prove that I know every letter of Colregs. I'm just a normal guy on a sailboat with a normal amount of caution and situational awareness.

This is a pretty reasonable approach to daily activities. But it's not a "holier than thou" attitude to want to know the rules, is it?

I'll betcha another way to say this is that you DO have situational awareness and can tell, based on your experience, just what constitutes a possible threat and what doesn't.

But shouldn't you be "on top of things" all the time? Isn't that your responsibility? If not to yourself, then certainly for and to Sue. I'm sure she trusts you completely.

I don't think anybody's trying to say that we could recite, from memory, every single chapter and verse of Colregs even if our lives depended on it.

I do believe that knowing Colregs even exist, and knowing where to find it, and re-reading them every once in a while, is far superior than not even knowing they exist. Which is what another parallel thread brings to light very clearly. Situational awareness is in short supply in altogether too many cases.

Scott, I think you're selling yourself short and perhaps mis-representing your abilities.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Not ignoring it because we don't know exactly what the guy means by his statement. Like me, he could have peeked around his sail and seen a power boat headed towards him about 1/2 mile in the distance. That's a lot of distance and never causes me any sense of alarm. If I was alarmed by every boat that is headed in my direction 1/2 mile away, I would probably not sail. A boat 1/2 mile away headed in my direction doesn't necessarily say that something bad is going to happen.

But that's less than a minute away at the power boat's speed. It's not uncommon to see a boat and then divert your attention away from it for a minute. I'll admit, if I detected that it is moving fast and on a collision course, I'd be more inclined to pay attention more diligently. But I can understand how they may have taken for granted that the boat would change course. 999 times out of 1000, the other boat would change course.

I'm just saying that if it was my decision, which it is not of course, I wouldn't place any blame on the sailboat captain. I would think it is ridiculous under this circumstance.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'm just saying that if it was my decision, which it is not, of course, I wouldn't place any blame on the sailboat captain. I would think it is ridiculous under this circumstance.

Except you're still not "getting it." Colregs, that is.

 

[jviss]

Like me, he could have peeked around his sail and seen a power boat headed towards him about 1/2 mile in the distance.

But that's not what he said, he said he saw the power boat “way off in the distance.” We can argue about this, but 'way off in the distance' is not 1/2 mile, i.e., 1 minute at 30 kt. At 1/2 mile from a buoy, boat, etc., I'm paying attention, and concerned - that I'll be hit, or I'll be set onto something by wind and current, and so forth. A distance of 1/2 mile is well inside the danger zone. Way off in the distance is probably a mile or more. Seeing it, saying you saw it, and not trying to get out of the way; well, you know what happens.

Rule 2 - Responsibility

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.
​

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Sue. I'm sure she trusts you completely.

I'm not so sure about that! She takes risks, too!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

We can argue about this

Well of course we can … that's what we're doing, right? It won't do any good to try to influence me by spelling out Colregs. I've stated my position clearly. A charter fishing boat clearly ran over a sailboat because the captain wasn't paying any attention to the traffic in front of him in broad daylight. His actions were clearly wrong as stated in Colregs. Case closed. I can't find any fault on the sailor (and I'm not looking for any fault on the sailor - his fault is de minimis in my opinion). Of course I don't decide these cases, and I have no desire to, so my opinion doesn't mean anything. Anybody can have different opinions. It doesn't change the case and we don't have any control over the outcome.

It doesn't mean that I, personally, would have reacted exactly the same way that the sailor did. I hope that if I was in his situation, that I would get out of the way successfully. It doesn't mean that I don't have an understanding of Colregs. We can all read the same words in Colregs and arrive at different conclusions. That's why they have panels to decide these things, I'm sure.

I think I understand how possible it would be to get hit in this circumstance and I empathize completely with the sailor. I think he was in the wrong spot at the wrong time and he didn't deserve to get run over. That's my simple position, and I doubt I will change my opinion unless there are other facts that we learn.

 

[jviss]

Of course I don't decide these cases

Thank goodness!

 

[JamesG161]

A charter fishing boat clearly ran over a sailboat because the captain wasn't paying any attention to the traffic in front of him in broad daylight. His actions were clearly wrong as stated in Colregs. Case closed.

The insurance companies will decide the outcome.
Jim...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Thank goodness!

Well, the sailboat captain would pick me to be on the jury!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Well, the sailboat captain would pick me to be on the jury!

I've often had the thought that if there was a contrarian like you on a jury it would not be a good thing.
Everybody is entitled to an opinion.
But...
Facts are stubborn things to some folks.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Facts are stubborn things to some folks.

And subjective.


Duck everyone, here it comes.

-Will (Dragonfly).

 

[Sailavie1]

Look out “truth isn’t truth”

 

[Daveinet]

But that's not what he said, he said he saw the power boat “way off in the distance.” We can argue about this, but 'way off in the distance' is not 1/2 mile, i.e., 1 minute at 30 kt. At 1/2 mile from a buoy, boat, etc., I'm paying attention, and concerned - that I'll be hit, or I'll be set onto something by wind and current, and so forth. A distance of 1/2 mile is well inside the danger zone.

No it is not. I sail on a lake that is only a half mile wide, so that is not even close. It is normal for power boats to deviate within a few hundred feet of my boat, sometimes even less. As a result, since powerboats normally deviate within a short distance, then it is only at that point where one can make a determination if a real danger exists.

Rule 2 - Responsibility
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.​

I believe you are misreading this rule. This means that the rule that states that both boats must collision, shall not exonerate any vessel...from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these rules. Meaning no blame can be passed on to the sailboat as a result of the failure of the power boat to not deviate coarse. There is no rule - I believe the word is "nothing" that exonerates the power boat. The powerboat failed to deviate at the normal point at which powerboats typically deviate, which resulted in panic on the sailboat.​