Coin in hull of O'Day Sailboat

Yackobus · Nov 26, 2011

Shoaldrafter said:
- - - - // - - - -

It was said, "I'm confused about is uncured FRP".

Ask our moderator what "Uncured FRP" is. If Maine Sail or Captain Herring do not want to explain this then maybe one of the guys who did a rebuild could help?

First, I do not say that every boat had a coin. O'Day had three plants at one point. I would would look to which plant(s) had straw boss who was experience with FRP layup schedules.

Second, if boat building customs and rituals are fully researched, you get an appreciation for what I found. Recall I was not looking for a nickel and when I found it, I initially thought it was held there by chewing gum. After examination it was placed there during construction using "uncured FRP" as the gluey.

Again, and again, it was in a place where you do not look. I believe that you have been over the whole boat. Keith claims the same. As I said previously, next week when I get a chance I will try to check the same general location in some other O'Day sailboats. I will not have a chance until next week.

I doubt that the coin is in every sailboat. I cannot image that it is part of the written layup schedule. But I cannot rule that out. You would have to get that information from John Deknatel the N.A. who designed or supervised the design of most of the O'Day sailboats. He does not respond to email.

I was on a O'Day 25 being parted out since our first discussion several years ago. I never thought to look although I was in general area.

Understand that this is on O'Day 26. Were 26's made at more than one plant? If yes, then different crews would be involved.

I have seen such things done on furniture, machinery and other worthy projects that are made to last. The builder usually justs signs his first name or initials, occassionally other things that will last the life of the object are used.

Somewhere I have seen coins tossed in a closed container so that they would rattle if container moved. Finding this coin was just a aha experience for me. What is more surprising is that we do not have anyone on forum familiar with doing such things. We are loosing traditions. Captain Herring needs to start a capture the traditions web page.

Whiskey planks have tradition that you can explore and maybe arrange to attend:

http://portsmouth-nh.patch.com/articles/video-gundalows-last-whiskey-plank-nailed#video-7945453

And study here:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/secret_destinyamerica/secret_destinyamerica02.htm

"The signature of Columbus, composed of letters curiously arranged and combined with cabalistic designs, certainly conveys far more than is inherent in the signature of a private citizen."

Recent politics tries to make us forget our history. A few will want to carry tradition and ritual forward. When on the open water, some will reflect on those who sailed before them, on those who built the vessels they sail on.

Take time to understand, listen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sto3p3eozg8

http://home.comcast.net/~pflyersboy/victory/victory_at_sea_theme.mp3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-EXNounv-U

Ed K

I fully believe in tradition and a little in ritual (unless ritual is harmful to others). I've read on the coin under the mast and as a new boat builder place one in the mast step of anything new I build. One I do it for tradition as it is slowly being lost, and as a signature like the old builders did back in the day. I have two new nephews who at some point will ask me why it's there and hopefully I can pass on the nautical story and meanings to many lost things of the sea. Maybe it will spark an interest in one and they can keep the stories and traditions alive. Does any one know about the Wrens feather?

Indysailor · Nov 26, 2011

I dare say most of the people who started these traditions, ships wrights, ropemakers, laborers, carpenters and sailors were hardly free. The coin in the keel tradition dates back to Roman times, not exactly an era of self determination and individualism; most probably many of the artisans who put coins in those ships were slaves. And speaking of serfdom, that seems an ironic term to use, given that shipbuilding in the old world was probably like many professions of the time, where a boy would be bound as an unpaid laborer to a journeyman; or since the age of sail when many of these traditions were laid down, was a time when navies of the world pressed men into unwilling service on cramped, disease infested ships, in the name of the King or Queen. Freedom, indeed.

Additionally, one's knowledge of whiskey planks or coin ceremonies has no connection whatsoever to so called "recent politics". The basis of those traditions is superstition. As a free man, I am allowed to believe that wind is caused by climate and weather, not the whims of sea gods and nymphs. Do we honestly believe that renaming a boat will incur the wrath of Poseidon? If not, are we less free?

emergpa1 · Nov 27, 2011

Shoaldrafter said:
- - - - // - - - -

Sunbird,

I try to lead Keith to analysis what I say rather that just continue on the same road as the Devil. He continues down the road to serfdom which I cannot accept.

Keith mentions books, did I miss, "Sailing Around the World Alone" by Joshua Slocum? Or Vito Dumas book about sailing the 'roaring 40's'.

Again, Keith I will have to study your post and send you my comments thereon. It seems that you fail to understand or grasp what 'Freedom' is all about. This is great pity.

Ed K

Addendum:
Tax the "rich", allow the technocrats to tell you what to do and how to live, accept the supposition that you are not part of an exceptional nation and that our best days are in the past, and when caught in their hypocrisy, we are effectively told "Nothing to see here -- move along now!" Their solutions never change. Ever. Jim Yardley

ed has concluded, based on my post, that a retired military officer with three active duty military sons does not "grasp the meaning of freedom".Then, revealing the grandness of his heart, he says that he pities me, and then he blabbers somethings about taxpayer funded welfair being slavery,etc.i

ED your conclusions are as erroneous as your convictions. but i defend your right to express them.

I must confess though, that if you had spoken those words while joining me and the true patriots: my sons' and my son in law and their wives all gathered around my our thanksgiving dinner table last thursday, you would have had the singular experience of have either the U.S. army or Airforce pinch your little head right off your shoulders. They are pretty respectful of their dad, "the retired captain", and expect others to be also.

Capt. Slocums tale of sailing alone around the world in a cutter he built called the spray if very good. It is free as a digital download for any of the electronic readers such as ipad and iphone

Poor Ed, I am not sure he even has a sail boat. Has anyone ever seen his sailboat? hmmmm? I think he may just have a wave runner. Such a pitty!

25yearslater · Nov 27, 2011

Hey Keith, couldn't help but read this thread as I too haven't found a coin anywhere. I have found a napkin in the galley area and a few feathers from a bird that met it's demise in the Fall River plant, but no coin. Thank your family on behalf of another vet from an earlier time who also concerned himself with the greater good over his rights. Individualism followed to it's logical conclusion yields self absorbtion and subsequent madness. See Rene Descartes, "Discourse on the Method," for further reading. Possibly why the coin or other trinket came to be, so that we were not alone.

emergpa1 · Nov 27, 2011

25yearslater said:
Hey Keith, couldn't help but read this thread as I too haven't found a coin anywhere. I have found a napkin in the galley area and a few feathers from a bird that met it's demise in the Fall River plant, but no coin. Thank your family on behalf of another vet from an earlier time who also concerned himself with the greater good over his rights. Individualism followed to it's logical conclusion yields self absorbtion and subsequent madness. See Rene Descartes, "Discourse on the Method," for further reading. Possibly why the coin or other trinket came to be, so that we were not alone.

Agreed and thank you . There is a podcast called philosophy bytes that is pretty cool. But I ended up canceling it a few months back as I had more than I could listen too and it didn't make the cut. I plan to go back to it since I am all caught up on the good old boat podcast back issues. I love that podcast.
Another way to get smart about sailing when not sailing are the good old boat back issues on cd. The will load to your iPhone and iPad and the layout is great. As much as I love the print version the digitals are actually a lot more user friendly. And since the are on your iPhone as well as your iPad, u always have them with you.
Ed, I never doubted u have a sailboat or two. That's just an old dig I dust off every now and then, as u well know. It always makes me laugh when I type it. and I am glad u are part of this group.

Joe11688 · Nov 27, 2011

Thank these boys for me Keith for their service in our military. I know how proud you must be of them.
Joe

emergpa1 · Nov 27, 2011

Trinkka said:
Thank these boys for me Keith for their service in our military. I know how proud you must be of them.
Joe

I will joe, and coming from you it means a lot. All my kids know about joe and Trinka. They are not yet sailors, but if I can get my girl down to Tyndall (at PCB, Fla.) where Daniel and his wife are stationed then he will get to experience it. He is almost too young to remember the sailing we did in Okinawa, but being near ocean there did impact him as he can name just about any marine creature. He always said he wanted to be a marine biologist.
Joe, you did see my thank you for the forum stuff? I just wanted to be sure you did.

emergpa1 · Nov 27, 2011

Indysailor said:
I dare say most of the people who started these traditions, ships wrights, ropemakers, laborers, carpenters and sailors were hardly free. The coin in the keel tradition dates back to Roman times, not exactly an era of self determination and individualism; most probably many of the artisans who put coins in those ships were slaves. And speaking of serfdom, that seems an ironic term to use, given that shipbuilding in the old world was probably like many professions of the time, where a boy would be bound as an unpaid laborer to a journeyman; or since the age of sail when many of these traditions were laid down, was a time when navies of the world pressed men into unwilling service on cramped, disease infested ships, in the name of the King or Queen. Freedom, indeed.

Additionally, one's knowledge of whiskey planks or coin ceremonies has no connection whatsoever to so called "recent politics". The basis of those traditions is superstition. As a free man, I am allowed to believe that wind is caused by climate and weather, not the whims of sea gods and nymphs. Do we honestly believe that renaming a boat will incur the wrath of Poseidon? If not, are we less free?

Wow Indy Sailor I missed that post. Well said my friend. You would (or more than likely already do) love the Jack Aubrey series, and any decent history regarding the Roman Empire such as the books in the "Hinges of of history" series by Thomas Cahill, and the seminal work, "Guns, Germs, and Steel: the fates of human societies", or the bi monthly Podcast by Dan Carlin he calls " Hardcore History). More science-ish is Bill Bryson's "A brief history of Nearly Everything). Closer to our love, boats and sailing, would be "George Washingtons Greatest Gamble"
I could go on and on ad nausium. I'm pretty boring, but in my mind is a whole wide world of lives and people and civilizations. I'm just not smart enough to share it in an interesting way.

emergpa1 · Nov 27, 2011

Yackobus said:
I fully believe in tradition and a little in ritual (unless ritual is harmful to others). I've read on the coin under the mast and as a new boat builder place one in the mast step of anything new I build. One I do it for tradition as it is slowly being lost, and as a signature like the old builders did back in the day. I have two new nephews who at some point will ask me why it's there and hopefully I can pass on the nautical story and meanings to many lost things of the sea. Maybe it will spark an interest in one and they can keep the stories and traditions alive. Does any one know about the Wrens feather?

The Druids thought it protected against drowning? I confess I had to google it! Sounds like a good idea to me ha.

RichBone · Nov 27, 2011

emergpa1 said:
Wow Indy Sailor I missed that post. Well said my friend. You would (or more than likely already do) love the Jack Aubrey series, and any decent history regarding the Roman Empire such as the books in the "Hinges of of history" series by Thomas Cahill, and the seminal work, "Guns, Germs, and Steel: the fates of human societies", or the bi monthly Podcast by Dan Carlin he calls " Hardcore History). More science-ish is Bill Bryson's "A brief history of Nearly Everything). Closer to our love, boats and sailing, would be "George Washingtons Greatest Gamble"
I could go on and on ad nausium. I'm pretty boring, but in my mind is a whole wide world of lives and people and civilizations. I'm just not smart enough to share it in an interesting way.

The 'Flashman' series by George Macdonald Fraser?

Joe11688 · Nov 28, 2011

emergpa1 said:
I will joe, and coming from you it means a lot. All my kids know about joe and Trinka. They are not yet sailors, but if I can get my girl down to Tyndall (at PCB, Fla.) where Daniel and his wife are stationed then he will get to experience it. He is almost too young to remember the sailing we did in Okinawa, but being near ocean there did impact him as he can name just about any marine creature. He always said he wanted to be a marine biologist.
Joe, you did see my thank you for the forum stuff? I just wanted to be sure you did.

Yes Keith and I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you personally for all those nice things that I told you to say about me.

Joe

Indysailor · Nov 29, 2011

emergpa1 said:
Wow Indy Sailor I missed that post. Well said my friend. You would (or more than likely already do) love the Jack Aubrey series, and any decent history regarding the Roman Empire such as the books in the "Hinges of of history" series by Thomas Cahill, and the seminal work, "Guns, Germs, and Steel: the fates of human societies", or the bi monthly Podcast by Dan Carlin he calls " Hardcore History). More science-ish is Bill Bryson's "A brief history of Nearly Everything). Closer to our love, boats and sailing, would be "George Washingtons Greatest Gamble"
I could go on and on ad nausium. I'm pretty boring, but in my mind is a whole wide world of lives and people and civilizations. I'm just not smart enough to share it in an interesting way.

Thank you for those recommendations- I could stand to move on from my current track, having read all the nautical fiction at my local library; Cornwell, Woodman, Pope, Nelson, Lambdin, Stockwin, Stevenson, Forester and of course O'Brian, to which I have found no equal. Not just a good historian, but a wonderful writer. One that comes close I thought was F. Marryat, possibly because he wrote as a contemporary of the age of sail. But he was much admired by Hemingway and Conrad, which must be worth something. I only read Mr. Midshipman Easy, but would like to try others.

Anything historical is interesting to me. In particular, a few I have really enjoyed are:

The Class of 1846:
A great history of those who graduated from West Point together then faced each other in the Civil War.

Throes of Democracy: The American Civil War Era 1829-1877
Walter McDougall's take on American history is a little bit like Howard Zinn, but without ideological bent. He paints an interesting picture of Americans as both entrepreneurs and hustlers, a stark contrast to the popular myth in many ways.

Frederick Lewis Allen
Less cynical than Mencken, he wrote these wonderful, popular social histories of the 1920s and 1930s. Probably makes Tea Pot Dome more understandable than an other writer

.

emergpa1 · Nov 29, 2011

Shoaldrafter said:
- - - - // - - - -

A paragraph from “Wild at Heart” by John Eldredge:

“A judge in his sixties, a real southern gentleman with a pinstriped suit and an elegant manner of speech, pulled me aside during a conference. Quietly, almost apologetically, he spoke of his love for sailing, for the open sea, and how he and a buddy eventually built their own boat. Then came a twinkle in his eye. “We were sailing off the coast of Bermuda a few years ago, when we were hit by a northeaster. Really, it came up out of nowhere. Twenty foot swells in a thirty foot homemade boat. I thought we were all going to die.” A pause for dramatic effect, and then he confessed, “It was the best time of my life.”

Ed K

Ed, I am not surprised you have read that book because i think we see nearly eye to eye in more than a few things. That is one of my favorite christian-themed books. I review portions of it off and again, and have made notes in the margins. I gave a copy to my youngest son in the weeks leading up to his marriage. To my delight he read it and afterward we talked about some of the topics. Did you ever read, "the Jesus we never knew"? It tries to put Jesus in the context of his time and situation.

Sorry guys, I know we r way off topic, but heck, it's winter.

emergpa1 · Nov 29, 2011

Indysailor said:
Thank you for those recommendations- I could stand to move on from my current track, having read all the nautical fiction at my local library; Cornwell, Woodman, Pope, Nelson, Lambdin, Stockwin, Stevenson, Forester and of course O'Brian, to which I have found no equal. Not just a good historian, but a wonderful writer. One that comes close I thought was F. Marryat, possibly because he wrote as a contemporary of the age of sail. But he was much admired by Hemingway and Conrad, which must be worth something. I only read Mr. Midshipman Easy, but would like to try others.

Anything historical is interesting to me. In particular, a few I have really enjoyed are:

The Class of 1846:
A great history of those who graduated from West Point together then faced each other in the Civil War.

Throes of Democracy: The American Civil War Era 1829-1877
Walter McDougall's take on American history is a little bit like Howard Zinn, but without ideological bent. He paints an interesting picture of Americans as both entrepreneurs and hustlers, a stark contrast to the popular myth in many ways.

Frederick Lewis Allen
Less cynical than Mencken, he wrote these wonderful, popular social histories of the 1920s and 1930s. Probably makes Tea Pot Dome more understandable than an other writer .

Indy I haven't read the books you listed. The first nautical history I got into was the Horatio Hornblower series. Then I began the Aubrey series. I am only two thirds of the way through that. I have not read any more of those for about a year. I was hoping Amazon or Barns and Noble would digitize them as I have become spoiled by my digital reader (an iPad in my case) that Lynn got me for Christmas last year. The reason i am spoiled is that I enjoy the imbedded dictionary and encyclopedia which I thought would be fun to have with the o'brian books, given their complexity. Imagine being able to near-instantly call to screen a dictionary, or an atlas/encyclopedia entry while those books. Pictures of the ships, etc etc. all you have to do is highlight a word or phrase and a drop down menu comes up asking if u want to search the dictionary, the encyclopedia or the web. It is truly revolutionary.
Now apply that to our sailing or boat repair how to's and you can began to see the usefulness. Reading about how to "heave to"? Just highlight it and search YouTube. You get a video do it!!!!

Indysailor · Nov 29, 2011

Emergpa1- Coming to an ebook near you...

emergpa1 · Nov 29, 2011

Indysailor said:
Emergpa1- Coming to an ebook near you...

Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!, interestingly, somehow, when I get your post the coming to an ebook is in blue(as we're the other book titles you posted). All I have to do is tsp it and it takes me to the web page the item is on! So cool.

emergpa1 · Nov 29, 2011

emergpa1 said:
Indy I haven't read the books you listed. The first nautical history I got into was the Horatio Hornblower series. Then I began the Aubrey series. I am only two thirds of the way through that. I have not read any more of those for about a year. I was hoping Amazon or Barns and Noble would digitize them as I have become spoiled by my digital reader (an iPad in my case) that Lynn got me for Christmas last year. The reason i am spoiled is that I enjoy the imbedded dictionary and encyclopedia which I thought would be fun to have with the o'brian books, given their complexity. Imagine being able to near-instantly call to screen a dictionary, or an atlas/encyclopedia entry while those books. Pictures of the ships, etc etc. all you have to do is highlight a word or phrase and a drop down menu comes up asking if u want to search the dictionary, the encyclopedia or the web. It is truly revolutionary.
Now apply that to our sailing or boat repair how to's and you can began to see the usefulness. Reading about how to "heave to"? Just highlight it and search YouTube. You get a video do it!!!!

Only yesterday is now on my list. There is a movie that might relate as the twenties led up to it that I want to see, I believe it is called J. Edgar. Regarding the "Red Scare" which has a lot of similarity to the terrorist scare of our day.

Coin in hull of O'Day Sailboat

.

Attachments

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

Attachments

.

Attachments

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.