Coast Guard

[Monterey385]

Just to be clear, the DoD budget was appropriated a couple months ago; it wasn't something done as part of this shutdown.

You are correct, the DOD Appropriation was handled long before this. This was done deliberately knowing they would likely have a shut-down. From what I understand and have pieced together, the White House was a bit surprised by the scope of impact on Homeland Security (mostly Coast Guard) and this led to the work-around to get the 12/31 payroll paid out. I'm on the edge of my reliable information on this point but it is one of the reasons there is general consensus around the "compensation resolution". Unfortunately stories such as the "sick out" and others about some of the departments is creating a "polarizing effect" and the window of opportunity to get the "compensation resolution" pushed through may close as a result.

 

[Monterey385]

I never understood that statement. Folks are in the CG because they volunteer and want to be there. I know that many folks become disenchanted with military and civil service, but it's a really good life for many. I can't help but notice the number of people in these forums whom have past and present military service and seem to be really proud of the life they have. It comes with risk, for sure, but I haven't really noticed in here any folks whom seem to regret their service. I never served, and there are times when I believe I missed out on something that I should have done, for whatever reason. So, like I said, I never understood that statement.

That said, I have a step-son whom works for FAA now for a few years and he is going to work right now without any sight of a pay check. He doesn't seem to be that concerned or unhappy at the moment. For one thing, he has an astonishing salary for a young fella. The salary, training and benefits far exceeds his income and opportunity for experience when he was an employee in the private sector. I know people tend to spend what they earn, but he isn't living hand to mouth by a long shot. He goes to work every day because he believes it is his responsibility and because he has confidence that he will be paid. He doesn't like seeing some whom sullenly call in "sick". He doesn't look at this temporary difficulty as a set-back to his career.

All in all, though, politics are sick when two opposing sides are constantly acting like children, and negatively affecting people whom are willing to do their jobs. Both sides have something they want. This is the silliest stand-off and it is entirely avoidable when the political leaders simply pull there heads out from where the sun don't shine. It's obviously on both sides.

Scott, I share your feeling about not having served and sometimes wishing I did. I also admire your step-son's focus and attitude and as he goes to his essential job he has every right to reinforce his beliefs along with his colleagues (this is how great teams and great culture is reinforced).

Some of the paygrades however in several other services do tend to hover around the poverty line and families tend to have to live paycheck to paycheck. This is true in the Coast Guard, especially in some of the environments where cost of living (being close to the water) is substantially higher than government pay. Thankfully my brother is not in that position these days either, but he is responsible for his crew and something is just not right when crew readiness needs to include things like "was the rent paid, do the kids of your employees have enough food to eat, and were they able to afford diapers".

Here is the most important distinction ... I admire your step-son's service ... but service does not mean servitude ... we have no entitlement to expect anyone to report to work without pay and we have a responsibility to ensure that our elected representatives do not do that on our behalf. However as an essential worker, somehow we have contorted our mindset (as a free market country) to accept something that would be unthinkable in the private sector simply because their jobs are deemed "essential" (in many cases essential for our personal safety and security).

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

What is really frustrating about this issue is that the members of Congress continue to get paid.
I'm ambivalent about the worker bees in civil service as they will get their pay along with the subsidized health insurance, subsidized life insurance, job security of civil service, generous vacation plan and lifetime benefits with a generous retirement annuity. I suspect most will not quit and give up those perks.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Here is the most important distinction ... I admire your step-son's service ... but service does not mean servitude ... we have no entitlement to expect anyone to report to work without pay and we have a responsibility to ensure that our elected representatives do not do that on our behalf. However as an essential worker, somehow we have contorted our mindset (as a free market country) to accept something that would be unthinkable in the private sector simply because their jobs are deemed "essential" (in many cases essential for our personal safety and security).

In my step-son's case, he says it is in "their contract" that they (FAA) must work through a government shut-down (I don't really know what that means exactly, but essentially he goes to work with the security that he will eventually be paid). There are always distinctions. I agree that service does not mean servitude in the context you present. In the case with "essential services" in a government position, the worker has the US Treasury to back them up. That's a pretty solid safety net, or at least it should be. The private sector is different. If your company can't pay you, for whatever reason, there is no assurance that the free market will ever want or need your employment again. So bailing out is perfectly understandable and possibly (usually) a necessity.

Sue's daughter-in-law works for a company that provides services to the EPA. I suppose they are sort of a quasi-government agency. She's furloughed now. They don't need her at work now because EPA has shut them down, so she has to decide what she wants to do. She won't recover pay for this time off. She can certainly use vacation time to bridge the gap to any extent that she has time left. I don't know what their sick time policy is, whether or not she can use that. I think she can apply for unemployment. It does lead to uncertainty about her future. But that is difference between public and private sector. There is a lot more security in public sector.

 

[rgranger]

I tend towards fiscal conservatism, but using a government shutdown as a political maneuver to get your way is outrageous and completely counter to the benefits of even having a government. I'm sorry for you're brother. I have family in similar threatened jobs who are expected to work for the government and not get paid.
Please thank your brother for his service. It is truly and deeply appreciated.
While it is outrageous to ask employees who take their job to support their families and themselves. Most can choose to move to the private sector when they have opportunity. Those in the military have no choice and it becomes a form of forced servitude to expect that.
I will be more than happy to send a letter to my representatives in Washington. There is no partisanship that is worth this.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Thanks for writing this post. I actually know my congressman personally, My band played at a fundraiser for him during his very first run for the VA house of delegates. I will finish this reply and then look up Ben Cline's contact information. He is a newb in congress this year but a good guy all in all.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Regrettably, the situation is what it is and regardless of the empathy we feel toward our service folks and others of the public employment sector so affected, it’s not going to bring the solution. This has been on the “horizon” for many months; more so since the elections in November. I personally have been furloughed as well as outright laid off from some of the jobs/positions I’ve held along the way. My wife and I have always since early in our marriage maintained at least one month’s living worth of cash to pay the bills when these things come along. And unlike the situation here, there has not always been a “back pay” promise. That income was simply lost, forever. I have dealt with it psychologically by spending that “off time” on productive things that potentially have monetary value, such as DIY improvements on the house, etc.

I realize your major issue is having to report to work w/o regular pay, so there isn’t that “time off.” Very distasteful, I wholeheartedly agree. But at least ultimately, it’s not income forever lost, as I understand. Just hang in there. You have a great job.

 

[Monterey385]

Thanks for writing this post. I actually know my congressman personally, My band played at a fundraiser for him during his very first run for the VA house of delegates. I will finish this reply and then look up Ben Cline's contact information. He is a newb in congress this year but a good guy all in all.

Thank you ... my experience with this stuff is that its critical to get to the staff that are in the room working the issue ... when something like this is put forward it is often a "duh" moment, the President takes the credit for looking out for his people without giving ground on the positions, everyone stands their ground but takes credit for doing the right thing ... then they go back to fighting. Maybe he has a staff person who knows one of the other staff people ... most staff are like 20-25 years old.

 

[Monterey385]

Regrettably, the situation is what it is and regardless of the empathy we feel toward our service folks and others of the public employment sector so affected, it’s not going to bring the solution. This has been on the “horizon” for many months; more so since the elections in November. I personally have been furloughed as well as outright laid off from some of the jobs/positions I’ve held along the way. My wife and I have always since early in our marriage maintained at least one month’s living worth of cash to pay the bills when these things come along. And unlike the situation here, there has not always been a “back pay” promise. That income was simply lost, forever. I have dealt with it psychologically by spending that “off time” on productive things that potentially have monetary value, such as DIY improvements on the house, etc.

I realize your major issue is having to report to work w/o regular pay, so there isn’t that “time off.” Very distasteful, I wholeheartedly agree. But at least ultimately, it’s not income forever lost, as I understand. Just hang in there. You have a great job.

Thank you ... and the only thing that makes this a bit easier is that its not me personally and even in my brother's case he is in good shape ... but young kids (many are 18-24 year old Petty Officers, etc.) with young families many times haven't had the opportunity to build up that emergency fund (lord knows my emergency fund was a visa/mastercard 35 yeaars ago).

I pay a pretty significant amount in taxes every year (as do the rest of us) and I don't like this being done like this in my name. I work in healthcare and I've had to make some tough calls in my day ... such as insisting my clinical staff remain available on 9/11/2001 in case they were needed for casualties (even though they were administrative clinical staff in Central NJ we had disaster response plan responsibilities). But I would never, ever, ever contemplate compelling someone to work without compensation. In fact, if any of us tried to do that in the private sector, wage/hour would be all over us.

Elections have consequences and I understand each side has to fight it out .. but we need to find a way to reinforce some guardrails to these fights.