CL14 Dinghy

[Fuzzy_logic]

Hi All. I am new to the forum. I recently bought a cute CL14 and promptly turtled it on my fist gybe. I'm new to dinghy sailing as I sailed keelboats only.
The boat came up very nicely, but she was full of water. In theory, auto bailers at the bottom should drain the cockpit with some speed thanks to the venturi effect, but I this has proven a bit of a challenge. A few questions to capsize recovery of this specific boat:
1. What is the proper procedure to bail out the water? Use 4 liter bailer from the outside of the boat, then climb in when the level drops a bit, open rear plugs, autobailers, get going and keep bailing while sitting at the rear?
2. If the water level is above the top of the centerboard box, is it possible to bail, or the boat sits too low to be bailed?
3. What position should the centreboard be in? Is there a rubber seal which prevents the water from entering through the centerboard slot when the board is fully dropped, or should the board be raised to slow down the flow?
4. Is it a good idea to lock the centerboard with bungie as it tends to partially close on its own?
5. Is there a way to drain the water from the bilge, I.e. the space between the bottom of the boat and the cockpit floor? The only way out seems to be through a small hole at the back, which stays always open. A lot of water gets there through a gap in the front wall of the storage compartment.
6. Is it a good idea to get a mast float, and what size should it be?

All I can think for now... Thanks!

 

[jon hansen]

well, now that you've practiced capsizing, no need to do that again.
get a plastic bucket with a lanyard to secure it. good for bailing, also washing the boat.
sails down, board up when swamped is what i teach.
i have stuffed mine and the crews Tshirts into centerboard boxes to get ahead of the water. like 60 years ago.
i have 2 centerboard boats with auto bailers/ scuppers. they work great on the right tack.

i used them a lot on the Ascow , which i'm now to old to command

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

Thanks! Today I saw an albacore flying a spinnaker in 20 to 30 knot winds, when we sailed a 30 footer with the smallest jib and no main sail and still doing comfortable 6 knots on the beam reach. My jaw dropped...
I was advised to get a large laundry detergent container and cut the bottom of it to form a scoop with a handle. I will try the t shirt trick with thee board up next time. Not sure there is much room when the board is up.
I think I will practice this at some point to get comfortable. Better in a controlled situation with another boat on standby, when the water is still warm.

 

[shemandr]

By specifying "...this particular boat .." you limit the responses from the many posters who have experience righting boats, with bailers and with water in the bottom but haven't sailed that boat. Is that your intention?

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

I was hoping for some input from CL boat owners, especially the 14 and 16, which is the wayfarer clone, but I am happy to get ideas from other dinghy sailors.
Another idea I received today would be to add some flotation foam to the top and sides of the storage compartment. Any thoughts?

 

[jssailem]

I am not saying that the boats are the same, but there are a lot of similarities in their designs.

From 1966 to 1970 I did a lot of racing of the Lido 14. We never turtled, though a few have. A float on the mast head would help reduce that possibility. I know on some training boats floats were used.

During races when pushing a boat to it's limits, I have gone over on a bad gybe. You know when it is about to happen. We practiced going over the side and standing on the center board. Upon righting the boat we used large Clorox bottles with the bottom cut out to bail. Crew bailed while helm tried to get the boat going. At the most we were wet to the knees and though slowed we kept in the race. The seats of the Lido ran from the mast to the stern. They were all floation. This helped to minimize the water in the boat. With the boat moving the opening in the center board helped to empty the boat.

I guess if you were not worried about racing your CL 14 that you could consider a modification similar to the C-Lark 14. Remove the stern...

I know a few Lido 14 owners who stayed with in the racing rules yet carved down the stern to deal with water intrusion and at the same time make the boat lighter.

2008 Lido 14 Class Championships

If you do not have to meet racing rules you can pretty much do what you want to your boat to improve it to meet your needs.

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

Removing the stern sounds a bit extreme, but it makes a lot of sense. It may not work here, because the water trapped in the hull would keep the cockpit floor below the water level.
So far I am thinking about adding some flotation in the form of foam, possibly some flotation bags in the forward storage.
The reason she went into a full turtle was because the mast filled up with water. I wonder if there is a way to seal it. Looks like a few pieces are attached to it by rivets, but there is a continuos extruded profile inside. This would reduce the size of required flotation bag.
Cl 14 also have flotation under seat. Too bad the manufacturer did not full the entire hull cavity with foam, but 30 years ago the technology probably wasn't there yet.
I think that a combination of clorox bailers, sealed mast, top flotation and added hull flotation will make it more comfortable when combined with practical.
I am not concerned with racing, more with not sinking....
Thank you for the good ideas!

 

[Deparlocean]

Hello
I sailed a LaserII (and still sail occasionnaly a Laser I) 30 years ago and broke my mast 2 times because of wind, waves, and shallow lake St-Louis here in Lachine Québec Canada, and I wanted to put a float that would inflate when in the water at top of mast but changed boat before (to a Tanzer 22 and after to Tanzer 28 and now Hunter 28!!).
One solution I applied to the row handles of my Hunter 28 dinghy not to loose them to the lake bottom if I drop them in the water is to put pieces of those long swimming noodles in the tubes to prevent water entry.
Another solution that I would try is to fill the ends of your mast with expandable foam, if your lines are all outside it, to stop water entry, so the mast keep a positive floatation. You should check this by plugging temporiraly the ends with duct tape and putting the mast alone in the water to verify my theory (I have not tried it but I think it is good!).
But if you you go out in very windy and wave conditions like I did, the inflatable float (automatic!) would be the best solution, because when I capsized, what caused the mast to go the bottom was the waves pushing the boat and the sails scooping in the water turning the boat completely on itself ("turtle").
I hoped this helped you and you will enjoy your boat, and I say I loved those sail outings even if it costed me two masts and trouble!!!

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

Brilliant, I was thinking exactly the same!
Another question: it seems that I don't have any plug in the transom. The plugs from the inside drain to the outside.
Since the outside plug is missing, the centre of the boat would not stay full of air, thus getting lower and allowing water to fill it. Am I reasoning correctly?
Last pictures show the gap between the front gap of my storage and the storage floor. All water from there goes directly into the hull. I am not sure I understand tow this is supposed to work in a capsize situation?

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

Forgot one picture to clarify

 

[Deparlocean]

Your two first photos show the drain plugs used to empty the space between the two hulls that form the boat. They have to be closed before putting the boat in the water. Only the bailer in the bottom of the cockpit may be open.
If you have water coming out when they are opened outside the water and on the trailer while tilting the boat, then you have water entry between the hulls and it should be traced and repaired because your boat is not waterproof and water getting in will make it heavier and lower on the water, and eventually sink it and you along while you sail.
Your third photo does not tell me anything, and the fourth shows the space for putting spinaker and other safety stuff or watever you want aboard on your sail trip. This space has to be water tight too.

 

[Deparlocean]

You were right with your reasonings. I just did not read you twice before replying. But what I wrote still stands!

 

[Deparlocean]

And the gap between your storage ans storage floor should not exist. As I wrote, no water should go between the hulls!!

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

Sorry couldn't get a better angle on the third photo, but I think your explanation confirms what I suspected. The place where you store the spinnaker leaks water into the hull, and the photo was taken from the inside of the storage. Maybe the next few photos will explain better.
The connection of the storage floor with the front wall where the mast is stepped look like have no seal of any kind from factory. When I cleaned the storage with the pressure washed it happily drained out of the transom ad fast as I filled it. I cleaned out lots of leaves and dirt from that gap.
It makes sense that this space should be watertight and form a nice air bubble when capsizing.

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

So how to seal it?

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

One more photo to show those gap. Taken from the mast to the outside of the boat. It continues all the way to the top of storage.

 

[Deparlocean]

To seal I would dry out the gaps with an hair dryer and after, apply a generous bead of urethane sealer like the ones used in construction with a sealer cartridge gun. Or if the gaps are too wide, inject expandable foam in them, then apply bead sealer. The true work would be bonding the hulls and gaps with epoxy, but that is a lot more work!
To verify for other leaks I would take a vacuum cleaner (the side that blows air) and blow through one drain plug with the others two in place, and check all seams with a solution of soap and water, sprayed on the suspect areas.
Remember to only apply a low pressure air to the inside of the hulls not to make them bulge under pressure. When you are finished and the boat floats superbly on the water, you will need a good beer to celebrate your hard work!

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

Thanks! I was thinking along these lines. Epoxy may be a bit of a problem because cleaning that gap properly for adhesion may be impossible because I cannot verify if it is clean. I am also not certain which kind of epoxy to use.
Buy I like the idea of doing it really well, even if I have to work on it like a mule.
I am still puzzled that there is no sealer from the manufacturer?

 

[Deparlocean]

Probably it was bonded together at factory but the joint let go over the years! Maybe you can try to reduce the gap by placing screws at different points but it's up to you to decide what to do.
I would be glad to ear about your progress with this!

 

[Fuzzy_logic]

That is quite possible, because there is no way to see between the members.
Also, a friend who owned a cl16 ( local copy of the wayfairer) told me that his compartment was sealed. The construction of the front of both boats is identical, which leads me to believe that someone dealt with his as it aged.
The gap is rather tight all around, a thickened epoxy should have no problem with joining the parts.
I will research the methods and materials in the next few days and present my findings in this thread for comments and advice. Any suggested brands of epoxies and sealers would be welcomed.
Many thanks!