So im going to look at this sailboat http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/928622690.html that i found on CL. Ive sailed a few times but more than any thing im looking for a floating apt. moorage in Seattle is cheaper than rent. What im wondering is if there some one to go with me and check out the sailboat for me. ive heard of people talking about having a surveyor look at boats before. Basically I don’t know what to look for if it’s a junk heap. Also if I only plan on learning how to sail (but im looking for a live aboard) shouldn’t I buy a fixer upper? Why buy a shiny nice sailboat when I might sail into something right? So if any one out there can advise me on this, that would be great! Oh also the head is kind of important im thinking of having girls over and would like one that flushes and doesn’t just open so can you upgrade to one of the flush ones? I have about 10000 dollars to play with. Thanks!
Checking out a sailboat monday..
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From the posting we see there is an almost new Thetford MSD on board.
We note that it is plumbed for deck pump-out, and you will get about 63 flushes with it 'till you need a pump-out (which is a hell of a lot more than you would get with a conventional head with a 15 gallon holding tank).
We note that it is plumbed for deck pump-out, and you will get about 63 flushes with it 'till you need a pump-out (which is a hell of a lot more than you would get with a conventional head with a 15 gallon holding tank).
Buy on condition of a survey
First, sit down and write out what you expect from a boat. You can live aboard anything you feel good about when you see it. Do get into the bunks, and stretch out. Is there room for your possible guest? Especially for her feet in the v-berth? Do you dream of cruising? Or racing?
When you have looked at the boat, if you want it make an offer. A standard term in an offer contract is to make the offer contingent on a survey. On this vintage of boat, the survey _will_ turn up defects. At that point, you should have the option of having the current owner fix them, of adjusting the price to reflect your repair costs, or of walking away from the deal. The survey will also help to identify your initial repair/upgrade list. What you do want to do is start now to find a good suryeyor based on local recommendations.
A final idea is to visit a couple of marinas you might want to live in. Interview the management - ask them if they know any good suryeyors. Also, ask them for some names of happy customers. These in turn are sailors you can ask not only about the marina. but about their boats, their suggestion for you, and their surveyor recommendations.
And check back here for our ideas as you go through the process!
Good luck.
First, sit down and write out what you expect from a boat. You can live aboard anything you feel good about when you see it. Do get into the bunks, and stretch out. Is there room for your possible guest? Especially for her feet in the v-berth? Do you dream of cruising? Or racing?
When you have looked at the boat, if you want it make an offer. A standard term in an offer contract is to make the offer contingent on a survey. On this vintage of boat, the survey _will_ turn up defects. At that point, you should have the option of having the current owner fix them, of adjusting the price to reflect your repair costs, or of walking away from the deal. The survey will also help to identify your initial repair/upgrade list. What you do want to do is start now to find a good suryeyor based on local recommendations.
A final idea is to visit a couple of marinas you might want to live in. Interview the management - ask them if they know any good suryeyors. Also, ask them for some names of happy customers. These in turn are sailors you can ask not only about the marina. but about their boats, their suggestion for you, and their surveyor recommendations.
And check back here for our ideas as you go through the process!
Good luck.
I have owned my boat for 4 or 5 months now. I had exactly your thoughts in mind; a floating apartment. If you are just starting out there is ALOT to learn about sailboats if you are going to own one and don't have fat pockets. It apperas from the article that boatwise, you would be starting way ahead of the game from where I started. I bought my boat from CL for 3,500. I have about $6,500 in my boat now, but it was a lot of work and twice as much so becuause it was my first time doing alot of it. The add says he put $2000 in the engine. He probably paid a yard to do the work, and if he did, $2000 may change the clutch. $2000 in a car's engine buys you a completely rebuilt one, and you get to take one of those girls you are talking about to the nicest restaurant in Seattle, just as a comparison in prices between cars and boats. EVERYTHING on a boat is so much more expensive than a car. That $6,395 he is asking is the entry fee to the boat game.
You say 'shouldn't I buy a fixer upper?'. My advice is buy the nicest looking, best maintained boat you can. I know people living on 26' boats. Everyone is different, but this 30'er I have is the minimum I would want to stay on for an extended period of time, with my wife and my dog. And I am a small guy, 5'3" tall. I don't know how some of these 6' tall giants fit in the vberth with a woman! lol
And the most likely thing you are going to run into is the dock. I love the saying, only approach the dock as fast as you want to run into it.
Since you have $10,000 to play with, I would invest it in Goldman Sachs, or some other bank you think won't fail. 3 years from now you will have a boat like some of these guys. Or you will be broke! lol
You say 'shouldn't I buy a fixer upper?'. My advice is buy the nicest looking, best maintained boat you can. I know people living on 26' boats. Everyone is different, but this 30'er I have is the minimum I would want to stay on for an extended period of time, with my wife and my dog. And I am a small guy, 5'3" tall. I don't know how some of these 6' tall giants fit in the vberth with a woman! lol
And the most likely thing you are going to run into is the dock. I love the saying, only approach the dock as fast as you want to run into it.
Since you have $10,000 to play with, I would invest it in Goldman Sachs, or some other bank you think won't fail. 3 years from now you will have a boat like some of these guys. Or you will be broke! lol
Sogreen—
I'd highly recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread. It will let you figure out if the boat is worth getting a survey on or not. Read the first two posts at a minimum....
I'd highly recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread. It will let you figure out if the boat is worth getting a survey on or not. Read the first two posts at a minimum....
From the pictures it looks to be a very clean and well cared for boat, but pictures can be deceiving. I'd find out what the $2000 worth of engine work included. Also look in the bilge, around windows, chain plates, etc. for evidence of leaks both above and below the water line. Unfurl the sails and check the condition of the cloth and the stitching. Who cares what sails are included if they aren't usable.
Just a quick thought. You said you had been sailing a few times. If you have local sailing friends, see if you can get one or more to check the boat out with you, and to sit down to discuss boat ownership with you before you make an offer. The comment about getting a professional survey is on the money, and might save you a lot of it.
Good luck.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Good luck.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
You should think about the ramifications of living on board a boat in a northern climate like Seattle. In winter condensation can be an issue and many recommend insulating the hull. Also, you should not take an 25 year old electrical system for granted if you will be living aboard, especially if you plan to use electric space heaters to heat her. Even a good survey won't delve deeply into the electrical system. Your should inspect the back of the breaker panel and the shore power plug connections for signs of burning / overheating. If you plan to install an alternative source of heat that will add to the cost and complexity of your purchase. You need to make sure your marina has services for liveaboards, as you will definitely need to get the holding tank pumped out frequently.
I found a web site you may wish to peruse. In particular I suggest you look at the forums to get more information specific to living aboard. I don't think too many sailors on this site live aboard from what I have seen.
http://www.livingaboard.com
I looked at a boat with an MD7 Volvo in it. It seemed like too good a deal to be true . I eventually attributed the low price to the MD7 as parts are pretty scarce. Volvo doesn't support it anymore from what I understand. They are pretty known for overheating, from what I recall of my investigations at the time, so I'd clean out the exhaust elbow, were I you as a new head might be tough to find.
There is little online about US Yachts, which were built by Bayliner. Bayliner's early efforts at building sailboats differ greatly from the US Yachts line, which was much more attractive, although perhaps less roomy than the earlier designs. If you haven't seen her yet, you may be surprised at how small her interior is. She was designed to IOR half ton requirements with a small stern. Headroom is 6' 2" max, expect less forward and away from the center line. Her beam is typical for a 30 footer at 10' 3". Her interior layout is very similar to my S2 9.2A. I spent three days on her this summer and feel that the layout works pretty well. The open starboard side that leads up the the vee berth makes the boat feel more roomy, although the head door opens aft making you go past the door to enter, which can be a pain if most of the time you access the head from the main cabin.
I looked at an O'day 28 that was used as a liveaboard. I spoke to the owner at length. He kept it in Boston Harbor. If you'd like I could contact him and see if he is willing to pass on some of his experience to you. As I recall, he did it for a couple of years.
Here is a decent site I found on US Yachts.
http://www.baylinersailboats.com/
Good luck,
Bob
I found a web site you may wish to peruse. In particular I suggest you look at the forums to get more information specific to living aboard. I don't think too many sailors on this site live aboard from what I have seen.
http://www.livingaboard.com
I looked at a boat with an MD7 Volvo in it. It seemed like too good a deal to be true . I eventually attributed the low price to the MD7 as parts are pretty scarce. Volvo doesn't support it anymore from what I understand. They are pretty known for overheating, from what I recall of my investigations at the time, so I'd clean out the exhaust elbow, were I you as a new head might be tough to find.
There is little online about US Yachts, which were built by Bayliner. Bayliner's early efforts at building sailboats differ greatly from the US Yachts line, which was much more attractive, although perhaps less roomy than the earlier designs. If you haven't seen her yet, you may be surprised at how small her interior is. She was designed to IOR half ton requirements with a small stern. Headroom is 6' 2" max, expect less forward and away from the center line. Her beam is typical for a 30 footer at 10' 3". Her interior layout is very similar to my S2 9.2A. I spent three days on her this summer and feel that the layout works pretty well. The open starboard side that leads up the the vee berth makes the boat feel more roomy, although the head door opens aft making you go past the door to enter, which can be a pain if most of the time you access the head from the main cabin.
I looked at an O'day 28 that was used as a liveaboard. I spoke to the owner at length. He kept it in Boston Harbor. If you'd like I could contact him and see if he is willing to pass on some of his experience to you. As I recall, he did it for a couple of years.
Here is a decent site I found on US Yachts.
http://www.baylinersailboats.com/
Good luck,
Bob
is that the 27' Bayliner US Yacht?
If so, you'll find it to be a terrible candidate for living aboard. It has a 9' beam, which means that it's not going to handle weight well. And when you live on a boat, you add considerable weight, dropping it far beyond the designed waterline on a boat like this. Additionally, you're going to be stuck with that porti potty. You're not going to have much in terms of refrigeration, water tankage, et cetera. The boat was built as a weekender, and you will in essence be camping out in your new "apartment."
You're not going to find many marinas that want someone living aboard a boat that small. West coast marinas are able to be quite selective about their liveaboards, and they tend to select knowledgable boaters who've spent upwards of 6 figures on their vessels. It would be a mistake to purchase that boat on Monday and then begin the search for a liveaboard slip for it. You may find that you've got a boat with no place to put it.
If so, you'll find it to be a terrible candidate for living aboard. It has a 9' beam, which means that it's not going to handle weight well. And when you live on a boat, you add considerable weight, dropping it far beyond the designed waterline on a boat like this. Additionally, you're going to be stuck with that porti potty. You're not going to have much in terms of refrigeration, water tankage, et cetera. The boat was built as a weekender, and you will in essence be camping out in your new "apartment."
You're not going to find many marinas that want someone living aboard a boat that small. West coast marinas are able to be quite selective about their liveaboards, and they tend to select knowledgable boaters who've spent upwards of 6 figures on their vessels. It would be a mistake to purchase that boat on Monday and then begin the search for a liveaboard slip for it. You may find that you've got a boat with no place to put it.
I did forget to mention that. The C30 that I own seems huge inside for a 30' boat. I have been on a 33' boat that was built more for racing, and mine seemed twice as big inside. The head room was crampy, and the beam on that 33' was very narrow(perfect for racing not so perfect for living in). Of course the guy had a bunch of junk in the boat so that made it seem smaller too.
As David in Sandusky was saying you have to make sure the boat you select matches your mission. I don't think you want to liveaboard a race boat. I was seriously considering a 30' race boat until the seller talked me out of it when I told him I wanted to costal cruise it and stay on it for extended periods.
As David in Sandusky was saying you have to make sure the boat you select matches your mission. I don't think you want to liveaboard a race boat. I was seriously considering a 30' race boat until the seller talked me out of it when I told him I wanted to costal cruise it and stay on it for extended periods.
While you are there tear her apart..don't be shy. Look for anything and everything.Don't just do it once.
I am curious why this boat is such a steal. I'd question why else she was on the hard besides the paint job...see how many hours she has on her engine and start it while you are there. Check and run electrical and water. Check the deck and mast area as well. Look to see if she was a Hurricane salvage ..obvious water lines or small mud/ leaves debri inside the cushions along the walls in cracks and such places you would not normally look..toss the cushions look in the storage areas as well...crawl inside her if you can. Look behind the doors for any water marks as well.
Let us know how this turns out..once in awhile you do find an "honest" steal. Good Luck
I am curious why this boat is such a steal. I'd question why else she was on the hard besides the paint job...see how many hours she has on her engine and start it while you are there. Check and run electrical and water. Check the deck and mast area as well. Look to see if she was a Hurricane salvage ..obvious water lines or small mud/ leaves debri inside the cushions along the walls in cracks and such places you would not normally look..toss the cushions look in the storage areas as well...crawl inside her if you can. Look behind the doors for any water marks as well.
Let us know how this turns out..once in awhile you do find an "honest" steal. Good Luck
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I used to own a 1981 US 27 that had the outboard configuration. The hulls are very solid, but the decks get water penetration and tend to be soft. It was a nice sailing boat. That looks like a porta potty in the head so you may want to re-think that.
Another guy
trying to get over on the system. Taking up a slip that could be used by someone who wants to use their boat AS A BOAT, not cheap housing. The boat will become covered in domestic crap. Bicycles, rusty propane bottles, milk crates of junk, blue tarps slung over the boom, weeks or months between washdowns because there's so much crap. An undersea garden will spring up on the bottom. The boat will NEVER LEAVE THE DOCK and will be an eyesore. Before long he'll have a freakin' dog, too, that leaves turds on the dock. Next thing you know there'll be an MSD "leak" because it's too cold/rainy for the long walk to the shoreside head. There oughta be a law.
trying to get over on the system. Taking up a slip that could be used by someone who wants to use their boat AS A BOAT, not cheap housing. The boat will become covered in domestic crap. Bicycles, rusty propane bottles, milk crates of junk, blue tarps slung over the boom, weeks or months between washdowns because there's so much crap. An undersea garden will spring up on the bottom. The boat will NEVER LEAVE THE DOCK and will be an eyesore. Before long he'll have a freakin' dog, too, that leaves turds on the dock. Next thing you know there'll be an MSD "leak" because it's too cold/rainy for the long walk to the shoreside head. There oughta be a law.
Liveaboard simulator
Livaboard?
You'd better read this first:
http://nysailingclub.com/newsletters/nysclt1105.pdf
(towards the end)
Livaboard?
You'd better read this first:
http://nysailingclub.com/newsletters/nysclt1105.pdf
(towards the end)
IMHP the diesel is a deal breaker NO matter how well it was kept up it is a 1978 raw water cooled motor with parts that cost a fortune
Roger - loved the article!
You'd better read this first:
http://nysailingclub.com/newsletters/nysclt1105.pdf
Roger,
This was probably the best advice provided. Very funny too!
Bob
You'd better read this first:
http://nysailingclub.com/newsletters/nysclt1105.pdf
Roger,
This was probably the best advice provided. Very funny too!
Bob
Re: Roger - loved the article!
I just discovered that it is an incomplete version and the link to the rest doesn't work for me. Did it work for you?
I know the author and have emailed to see if he will send me a complete copy and let me put it on my server. It just gets better and better.
I just discovered that it is an incomplete version and the link to the rest doesn't work for me. Did it work for you?
I know the author and have emailed to see if he will send me a complete copy and let me put it on my server. It just gets better and better.
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