"Charges Dismissed In Sailraces to Cuba"

[Darrel]

Visit Cuba???????Follow-up

As a follow up to my previous post. My comment was referring to trips made to Cuba in the late 1990's. At that time you could get a permit to sail to Cuba on a culterial exchange visit. The embargo was still in place and you could go but you couldn't spend any money. Early trips by my friends found the treatment by the cubans to be excellant. Later groups that went also didn't spend any money and the cubans started treating them different and they became concerned with there well being. Weather the treat of having their boats taken away was real or not is not the issue. The fact is that if they did decide to hassle the American visitors they were on there own. Also remember that during that time the cuban governmnet took it upon themselves to shoot down aircraft close to cuba but still in international waters. Again, I am not interested in the political debate over how our government deals with this issue. I would not go to cuba to visit until the government of cuba is in different hands and it is opened up to visitors world wide.And Stu, How many friends do you have that spent the night in jail in Tijuanna because they ran an Alto sign on Revolution Blvd? It can be that easy for Americans to be mis- treated in any foreign country. Its just that in Cuba you are on your own.

 

[eds928gt]

Darrel: Your fears are unfounded

If anyone in Cuba were to steal items from a visiting boat, Fidel would soon find out, and there'd be heck to pay for it. Keep in mind, the Cuban crime rate is WAY less than ours. Maybe it's because their punishment for stealing is far more severe than ours.The fact is, boaters from other countries have not had any serious problems visiting Cuba. However, some of them have had serious problems when visiting the USA.Perhaps our Government needs to "lighten-up" on Cuba. Thusfar, the embargo hasn't been very effective, and it's been over 40 years. It takes a 'big' person to admit they were wrong. In spite of all its good intentions, I think it's time our Government admitted it made a mistake?Besides, embargos are sooo anti-capitalistic. The US Government should be promoting free trade and freedom of movement, not restrict it.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Scott]

Smuggling Cubans?

This certainly is a volatile political issue and I will acknowledge that our government (both parties) have self-serving reasons for many decisions; but could there be some practical problems to deal with as well?I have a friend who has rescued Cubans from the ocean on 2 separate occasions while travelling between the Keys and the Bahamas on his pleasure boat (no, Elian was not one of them). It seems that as long as Castro controls the country and will not allow legal emmigration, there is the potential that pleasure boats could be used in a cottage industry to smuggle Cubans into the States. I think this could wreak havoc on the boating community where boardings and confiscations from both nations could happen. Can you imagine the retaliation that innocent American boaters would face if Cuba decided that smuggling was an issue? Not to mention the tension that would be created among our own customs officials and homeland security people if they had to watch out for increased criminal activity.I work with a fellow who was in the Cuban Air Force when Castro overthrew the government. He says he will never go back to Cuba as long as Castro lives. It's too bad ... we're neighbors ... we should be allowed to be neighborly. Cultural exchanges between people are usually very friendly. Cultural exchanges between governments need to follow suit.

 

[eds928gt]

Boat could be searched before you leave.

As it is now, before you set sail from Cuba, you must obtain an exit inspection. They're looking to see if you're trying to smuggle goods and contraband, as well as people. Moreover, Cuban authorities can and (if you're a US boat) probably will watch or escort you from the harbor/marina.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bill of Rights

DarrelMy concern over THIS issue and the EO is NOT how Americans are treated in Cuba or Tijuana, but how the AMERICAN GOVT treats its OWN citizens with that draconian and unnecessary Executive Order..Jeff of Pollack Pines put it very well.George, when do we leave? Stu

 

[Darrel]

Visit Cuba???????

To Stu and the rest that have attacked my opinions. As I stated, I do not want to get into the political debate over what Governments are doing, and I will not attack or dispute your opinion on the subject or for that matter attack your right to have whatever opinion you choose to have. My post consisted of the legit fact of life that if you travel to an area that is not friendly to US citizens or could turn unfriendly in any way, I would not choose to visit that counrty in my boat no matter if an embargo is in place or not. I also was sharing true life facts of stories shared by sailors that had the expirence while in Cuba.It is most unfortunate when emotions get in the way of discussions or the sharing of thoughts on this board and people such as yourselves go on the attack mode for no reason. I am content to read your thoughts and file them for evaluation in a less emotional way.Good luck to all of you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I agree

Darrel, with you and your approach. I was not attacking your position, which is reasonable about the dangers and difficulites of going to other countries, just pointing out that you seemed to have started a different topic altogther, compared to the EO which we were discussing.Thanks for your fairness and understanding, and I hope ours comes through, too.Stu

 

[Dana M26D]

Canadians have limits also.

We Canadians can visit there but only under Cuba's economic controls. Canadian Foreign Affairs says: Articles prohibited from entry into Cuba include, but are not limited to, walkie-talkies, satellite phones, hand-held GPS equipment, televisions, VCRs, DVD players, freezers, air conditioners, stoves, water heaters, electric frying pans, toasters, and irons (i.e. any item that draws heavily on electricity). Fresh fruits and vegetables and pornographic material are prohibited as well. Such items are routinely seized on arrival, without compensation. It goes on to say:The U.S. government has announced that it will closely monitor boat traffic in the Straits of Florida and that officials will seize any vessel without an OFAC licence if they believe it is headed for Cuba. Canadians who dock their Canadian-registered boats in Florida are subject to these measures, whereas those Canadian boats simply en route to Cuba via the U.S. will be exempt. Expect to be thoroughly searched and questioned if you are in the latter category. (Note that it does not mention simply enroute to the US via Cuba.)The Canadian family who stopped in Cuba during a circumnavigation aboard Northern Magic took many days of beaurocratic red-tape just to leave behind some old bicycles as a gift to local kids. (northernmagic.com) The Cuban government is concerned about outside items getting to their people. They want to ensure that the Cuban population only believes in their own government's spin on things. We should ask Michael Moore to do a film on Castro. (Celcius 9/11)The US regulations make it easy for Canadians to book an inexpensive vacation at a Caribbean resort. Once all Americans are allowed to go there the resorts will fill up, prices will go up, and we'll end up having to look elsewhere.However, Americans visit Cuba every day. Most enter via Venezuela and don't have their passport stamped. For US citizens only, Cuban officals insert a slip of paper into the passport and stamp it on entry and exit. After returning to Venezuela the Americans just toss the paper away and US Customs never know about the visit. They just make sure they have enough cash to cover everything.

 

[Herb Parsons]

A Thought on the EO

While I admit I haven't followed the EO closely, I have followed it some. I'd say that about 98% of what I've read from other sailors has been in opposition to it. I am curious about something though - in spite of the dire sounding nature of the EO, I haven't heard of ANY boats being confiscated as a result of the EO. Is it at all possible that this is one of those "We've got it if we feel we need it" type things that is not unusual in times of war?I think back to the stories my grandparents (and to some degree, my parents) told me of things that were put in place in this country during WWII, and even during the Korean conflict (my father was career Army, so he experienced lots of this stuff), and by today's standards, they definitely sound "Draconian".

 

[eds928gt]

Darrel: You may not be going anywhere!

The fact is while traveling abroad, a "friendly country" could become unfriendly rather quickly. Moreover, as a guest in a foreign country, you have to follow their laws, even if you don't agree. The US State Department may be there to help you to some extent, but if you are accused of violating a local law, you can and probably will be held in a local jail, and you may not get the legal rights you think you should.Having written all this, I must add that you are probably safer in most foreign ports than you are walking down your town's main street.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Darrel]

Traveling

To the contrary. I have traveled to many places in this world. Much of it by private boat. I have no difficulity in obeying the laws of the land in any country I have visited.There are 2 places in this world I would not visit now or in the near future. The would be Cuba and the Middle East, for the aforementioned reasons.Happy sails to you.

 

[eds928gt]

How about...

Indonesia or Turkey (that's right - Turkey) or Albania or Columbia or India or several countries along the east and west coast of Africa, etc.?I included Turkey because it has some very strange and strict laws, plus foreigners have almost no rights.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Michael]

About Turkey to eds928gt:

Foreigners in Turkey actually get treated much better than the locals in Turkey especially regarding laws and regualtions. They are much more strict for the Turks.Have you actually been to Turkey or did you hear this from some other source? I spent many years in Turkish coastal areas and I got many sailor friends who have been there also. Comparing Turkey to countries like India, Indonesia or Columbia where there is still pirates sailing around is what confuses me. Regards.

 

[Ed]

I was in Turkey several times.

Perhaps times have changed (for the better), but when I was there the cab driver could sell you a contraband substance, stop his cab, tell a cop you bought it, and they would arrest you, but not the cab driver. BTW, the penalty for posession - 6 years + a day in a Turkish jail, and the US State Dept. couldn't do a thing about it. Also, you had to pay for your food and clothing while in jail.Also, if the cab you were in had an accident - the passengers in the cab were considered "at fault". After all, the cab wouldn't have been there if you hadn't hired it.They had some other "interesting" rules and laws. Hopefully, now that they want to join the EU - they have become more "western".~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[J.B. Dyer]

Darrel

Morning:If it's any consolation or help to you, I'm pretty much in line with your way of thinking. I'm a world traveler too and have always avoided places where there was political unrest, controversy, piracy reports, etc if I could help it. Life is too short. I sail for the peace and quiet, not asking for trouble. I'd rather breeze through it without getting involved with someone else's squabbles.There are too many places to go that are stable and legal.So, I vote for your opinion and folks can have fun beating me up too, maybe it'll give you some rest.

 

[Scott]

Ed??? Tough Break!!!

It sounds like you were framed!! What did it take to get out. It must have been weird coming back to the States after more than 6 years!!!

 

[Darrel]

Thanks J.B.

Thanks for your support J.B. However, I don't feel beat up at all. The folks that are making the most emotional outburst on this thread are so emotional it has clouded their thinking process and they can't see the forest through the trees.I believe they are all good people at heart but to much blood has run to the wrong head.Seriously, It is always more fun to have good level headed exchanges on boards such as this, and gain knowledge from different points of view. And of Course, you would always hope that the points being shared or discussed had to do with sailing, safety and such and not the political crap that has gone on here, particularly when people attack opinions or thoughts that differ from their own.I never said anything about Government's handling of issues, all I said was that I choose not to visit a certain place and I provided legit reasons for that opinion.they can take it or leave it.Again, thanks for your reply.

 

[eds928gt]

Scott: It didn't happen to me

But it did to a couple of my shipmates.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Gord May]

Sailing to Cuba again for the first time

My personal experience reflects the idiocy of governments. Hopefully you will find it relevant.My father is an American, born in rural Cuba in 1919 to American parents. He lived in Cuba until 1925. We have no family in Cuba today, everyone having left long before Castro. At age 80, following the death of my mother, my father wanted to visit his birthplace (having not been able to return since leaving). Discovering that the embargo allowed sailboats to visit Cuba legally (as long as money wasn't spent there), my two brothers, my daughter and I set out to make it happen. We bought a 1973 Ranger 33 (I quickly realized my Catalina 22 wasn't going to do it) outfitted it for cruising and set sail from Rhode Island in October 2000. We followed all US government reguirements existing at the time. In May 2001, we arrived in Veradero, Cuba. Within an hour we were granted entry visas (no passport stamps please) and made ready to hit the town. However, as we were leaving the marina, we were stopped and informed that everyone but my father could enter the country. The reason he couldn't enter was because Cuban expatriates (they consider my father a Cuban because he was born there) could not enter Cuba by boat! He could fly into Cuba, but not sail! Of course US law said he could sail in but not fly (as this would constitute trading with enemy)! Our visas were rescinded and we were ordered to leave the country immediately. The police and marina officials were very civil and non-threatening, but insistent nevertheless. They even returned our entry fees. I think that after granting the visas, someone decided they better check with Havana and were told to prevent our entry. We had no choice but to comply. Upon return to Key West (arriving on Memorial Day weekend) we had to contact US Immigration, Commerce and the Coast Guard to clear in (later I got a bill for the overtime). Re-entering the US was hassle free, sharing beers in the cockpit with the US officials as they signed off on the forms(much like we need with the Cuban officials initially).So, the only way we could visit Cuba under US law (NOTE: you could travel as a journalist, an academic, part of cultural exchange tour, or an agent of a humanitarian organization, but either we didn't qualify or would be restricted in our travels within the country) was to sail, but sailing to Cuba was the only way my father was not allowed entry. As a result, my father has not and probably will never be able to return to his birthplace (although just last week he, at age 85 and recently remarried, asked me when we were going to make another attempt!)Regardless of your politics, this whole thing seems ridiculus. I have no love for Castro, but my grandparents and father lived in Cuba under the US installed dictator, Bastista, and the only real difference is that now Cubans are the most literate people in the world, have great health care and the Mafia has been replaced with Castro's cronies. The Cuban people are great, the American people are great, it's the governments that make lunacy policy!

 

[eds928gt]

Go to Canada first,

then fly down to Cuba. See one of my previous responses on thei subject.~ Happy sails (and flight) to you _/) ~