"Charges Dismissed In Sailraces to Cuba"

[Alan]

So! what's the 'right ' way??

For the administration, Cuba is voting issue, nothing else. Eventually (I hope), our government will take its collective head out of the sand and join the world community. We play with China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and a host of other countries with far worse governments (to their people) than Cuba. The height of hypocrisy!!I have no interest in how the Cuban government is doing. I have a HUGE interest in how our government manipulates various segments of our country for its own political gain.No Abe, I would neither shake hands with nor forgive Hitler for his crimes. He cannot hurt me anymore, but he did cost me my entire extended family.

 

[Paul]

Oil Find Hints at a Less Dependent Cuba

Unpaid loans. I don't think so. Now that they have oil, maybe the embargo will be dropped faster.

 

[Aggie]

And if Cuba is dotted with oil platforms...

like we have to dodge here on the Texas Gulf Coast, it won't be as pretty & romantic. Then nobody will want to sail there anymore. Our dilema is thus solved, and the oil companies in the States will be kicking themselves for not making the good ole boys opening Cuba up for them. Fair winds...but not to Cuba.Aggie

 

[Alan]

Hey,,.....

...but that may be just the excuse that Bush is looking for to invade and save all those poor soles from Fidel (and take over his oil fields) I would like to start a petition to allow any sailor to sail WHEREVER he/she pleases without regard to political bounderies, to enjoy fair winds and clear skies, and gorgeous sunsets in the evenings........WOW what a concept.

 

[Phiggins]

Right on

I'll second that petition Alan and Stu I hope to meet you someday in Cuba.

 

[Darrel]

Visit Cuba???????

I have friends that have sailed to Cuba. I do not want to get into the discussion concerning the political aspects in todays world of traveling to Cuba, the embargo or anything else.I would, however, be very concerned about traveling to a country were officals (foreign) could confiscate my boat, leave me stranded in their country and not have the benefit or help of my country (USA) to help me out. Traveling to Cuba today has that very real possibility. Think about that. The Cuban government invites you over and when you arrive they take everything you have with you away. You have no recourse. If you don't think that is real, then you haven't talked much with people that have been there. At first, in the 1990's the Commodore of the Yacht Club at Marina Hemmingway was writing letters to every sailing group in Florida to invite them to take part in cultrial exchanges by sailing to Cuba. After the first few groups went and were treated wonderfully things started to change. The last few groups that went were uncomfortable with the treatment and did not feel entirely safe. So, perhaps the current executive order has been put in place to protect American citzens.Just another turn in the story to think about.

 

[Droop]

Cuba is right to explode in growth

We just have to wait for Fidel to die.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Real Spin

Wow, that is incredible. You should work for that un-named "news" (sic) channel with only a few letters.The US can confiscate your boat based on the Executive Order, but the spin is that this is keeping "US" safe from Cubans in Cuba who want to steal our boats?I just don't get the logic...Just more Newspeak: black is white, up is down, and 2+2=5It's not politics, it's reason.

 

[Ted Siegel]

I think Don is correct...

My understanding of this issue is that the reason the embargo is still in force after all these years is the Cuban voting block in Florida. As long as the US goverment does not legitimize the Castro government by normalizing relations with Cuba. The people who left Cuba still may have a legal claim to the property lost when Castro over threw the previous government.

 

[eds928gt]

Knowing many Cuban expats, it's politics

Most of the older Cuban expats I've gotten to know still hold out for the "good ole' days", when they owned the land, ran the businesses, and made the lion's share of the money on the backs of the Cuban peasants. (Remember, the vast majority of Cubans back in 1958-59 thought of Fidel as a liberator and hero.)I've even heard some of these older Cuban expats say "Socialism is no different than Communism". Clearly, they view any form of government that's not pure Capitalism as a potential threat to their prosperity. Many of these expats were deeply involved in the Batista dictatorship. When they came to the US, they brought whatever wealth they could carry, but more importantly, they brought their politcal savy too. They even managed to convince Eisenhower, and later Kennedy, to support their invasion of Cuba. Thus, that legacy and the political influence of those expats continues to the present.The arguement that Cuba might confiscate boats or other property from visitors and tourists seems preposterous given that Cuba relies very heavily on tourism. If they ever did harass a visiting boat or tourist, they would be bitting the hand that feeds them, and Fidel knows it.This executive order is entirely based on political posturing. The Cuban community helped GW win in FLA. GW is not about to do or say anything that will rock the Cuban's boat (pardon the pun).~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~BTW, there are ways to visit Cuba without getting the US Govenment down your throat. If you want to fly there, go to Canada. Then take a flight from there to Cuba. When you arrive in Cuba, they attach a chit to your US passport, and stamp the chit. When you come back to Canada, the chit "disappears".

 

[Jeff M21319]

The thing that really gets my gruff....

is that it would seem to me that the EO we are concerned with here directly violates numerous portions of the Bill Of Rights. Regardless of what a bunch of Cuban expats in Florida want or think is best for their little interest group, no law that violates the Constitution should be considered valid, and this one does exactly that. Meanwhile, we have open trade agreements with a number of oppresive Communist regimes, we send billions every year to countries known to support and foster terrorism, our borders are as porus as a screen door, etc. This all reeks of just another government edict designed along the lines of 'because I say so'. Once again the lines between the powers (legislative, judicial and executive) have been blurred to the point where this sort of crap is allowed to occur. If the Supreme Court wasn't populated by a bunch of senile old farts and Constitution haters this whole thing would have been thrown out on its ear a long time ago. As an American citizen I have the right to go anywhere I want any time I want. (okay, not ANYWHERE, like secure military bases, etc., but you get the idea)What I'd like to know is this: what other countries are currently on the list of places I'm specifically forbidden to travel? North Korea, Iraq, Palestine? These governments are all hostile to ours, so am I also prohibited from travelling there?Another question is this: say I'm 'in the vicinity' of Cuba when a catastrophic failure occurs on the boat during a storm or a serious medical emergency happens. Can I put in to Cuba for long enough to make repairs or seek medical assistance? What if some huge disaster were to hit Cuba tomorrow, like the tsunami that hit S.E. Asia? Would we refuse to send humanitarian aid? Okay, sorry for the rant, I'll climb off the soapbox now!!Jeff

 

[eds928gt]

Jeff: The State Dept. has a list

They issue warnings and list countries US Citizens aren't allowed to visit without getting special permission. Also, there are many countries that don't allow visitors to come and go as they please. To enter and stay in one of those countries, one must get an invitation from their Embassy. So, I'm sorry to inform you, but being a US Citizen doesn't give you the right to go wherever you wish.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Bil Thomas]

Moral Minority

just to put my 2 cents in. It is inconsitant that the US trades with countries (China which has a large human rights violations) and Cuba.I beleive the reason is the "Moral Minority". In the case of Cuba the US Cuban population is very well organized and present strong politcal pressure to follow their ideas. Which is no trade with Cuba.While the converse is the businesses that want to do business in China are putting pressure on so that we can.My belief is the more open the ecomony to trade the better chance we have of promoting AMerican values.I am off the soapbox. Thanks

 

[Peter18012]

The question with China

is that, unlike Cuba, even though some might want to prohibit trade with China by US residents, China is becoming a 600 lb gorilla in world-wide economy second only to the US, with the difference being that China has a large trade SURPLUS (unlike our huge trade and budget DEFICITS). It means that every day, more and more of that national debt is owed by us to China, whether we like it or not.And many of us know what happens when we borrow on the credit cards just to pay the day-to-day expenses of food, berth rent and utilities. Soon the desires and requirements of the lender drives most of what we do!Compared to China. Cuba is a small-potatoes issue. But it does have a sailing connection, which China really doesn't. And sailing, after all is the reason for this forum...

 

[Aggie]

To reply to concerns ,Darrel,

...you do raise valid points about not having the US govt (embassies) to protect you and your rights while in Cuba. But lets face it, you sail/visit some island nations, ST Kitts comes to mind, and there is not an official outpost of the US govt there ( I would happily take the job if offered!) The embassies can't save you from everything; you have to prudent wherever you visit. I do like the knowldge that embassies exist, and I hope I never have to contact one. And as an aside, a Canadian friends Mom had an M/I in Cuba while on an excursion. Received excellent medical care there (her son-in-law is an MD and was astounded by the good cheap medical care available) I do not think that Cuba & Castro are saints, but I am appalled at how the politics of the United States has been hijacked by a very vocal minority and how politicians of both parties pander to them. We fill our shopping carts with plastic crap from China at the local Wal-Mart, our Nike cross-trainers are probably made by the grandchildren of the Viet Cong who killed so many young Americans in the 1960's and 70's. The executive order regarding Cuba reeks of politics.Aggie

 

[Peter]

"hijacked by a very vocal minority"

How come I never seem to be part of the "very vocal minority" that gets what I/we want? Maybe because I just play by the rules, obey the law, seem to vote for the one who eventually loses, and hope that maybe this time my vote makes a difference.While I'd like to visit Cuba, like most I won't as long as THE RULES prohibit it, because we don't want to "rock the boat", or cause undue attention or hassle on ourselves.And isn't that what any politician in power depends on, be he Repub or Demo, Right or Left, Commie or Capitalist, GW Bush, Saddam Hussein or even Fidel Castro, requires of us?

 

[abe]

But Al if Hitler was still in charge in Germany,

then as your arguments would go... we should have free trade with him no matter what happens to the Jews and the Poles and the Gypsies. After all we should be able to visit and trade with anyone.... even if inderectly it supports that government. If anyone should undestand how the Cubans feel about Fidel it should be someone who's family was directly impacted by Nazi Germany. If the world would have stood upagainst Fidel along with the US in the early 60s, perhaps Cuba would be a democracy. If the world would stood up against Hitler in the mid 30s perhaps your family would still be alive.abeabe

 

[GeorgeB, s/v Freya]

Stu, Buddy Boat to Cuba?

Now, I can afford to wait for a regime change in Cuba as my retirement is still a few years away. And, after all, I don’t want Cuba to commercialized before I get a chance to go there. Stu, are you planning on taking Aquavit to the Caribbean? That’s exactly my plans for Freya. This could be the ultimate cruise out for Fleet One!

 

[Alan]

abe

Lumping Fidel in with Hitler is a stretch and a half. Hitler’s mind was set on world domination and the genocide of all non-Aryan races. Fidel wants to be President for life, these two hardly go hand in hand.I have no problem in trade with Cuba, but for GW to single out Cuba for (weak at best) human rights violations with soooo many countries far worse and yet we trade with them, is a joke.My interest is that GW is willing to make political hay at the expense of the average man in the street and our civil rights.EO’s are not laws past by our government. They are supposed to be imposed for the safety and protection of the public. So just who is being hurt by the visitors going to Cuba for a visit?If you are one of the expats, I can understand your motive for defending these actions, but they are still wrong.

 

[Rich18890]

Maybe boaters need to band together

As I see it the reason a few Cuban Americans can get their way is because they have banded together and all vote the same way, thereby making them a political force to contend with.But we on the other hand vote Rep. Or Dem. For other reasons than our concerns on issues that deal with us as boaters. If a group was formed that did deal with all issues that concern boaters like dredging ICW, GPS issues, this Cuba thing, Insurance costs, etc. analyzed the candidates on their positions and published their findings in magazines like Soundings and enough boaters in states like Florida voted with these things in mind then maybe we would be a group to be reckoned with too.