Charge settings for Solar Victron controller

Feb 16, 2021
423
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
I have a 2S2P setup of 6v 230Ah East Penn batteries for total 460Ah of 12v. I have attached 2x50w panels (I will be adding 2 more) via a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15 controller. I’m confused regarding what my tail current setting should be, (and any other settings to account for). Victron documentation states 4% of bank Ah, but that would be 18.4A, and I have yet to see the charge current surpass 7A when in full mid day sun. What am I missing?

Also, should I be accounting for my alternator and/or shore power charger output when setting charge voltages on the controller?

Attached are screenshots of my controller settings.
 

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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,002
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
You should be able to set the profile for bulk, absorption and float on the Victron for a 12 volt battery. That would be your two 6volts in series.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,848
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I have a 2S2P setup of 6v 230Ah East Penn batteries for total 460Ah of 12v. I have attached 2x50w panels (I will be adding 2 more) via a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15 controller. I’m confused regarding what my tail current setting should be, (and any other settings to account for). Victron documentation states 4% of bank Ah, but that would be 18.4A, and I have yet to see the charge current surpass 7A when in full mid day sun. What am I missing?

Also, should I be accounting for my alternator and/or shore power charger output when setting charge voltages on the controller?

Attached are screenshots of my controller settings.
On any solar setup you will rarely if ever see the full rated out put from the panels for several reasons. The biggest reason is how the rating is established. There are defined parameters for rating panels which include the angle of the panel to the sun, temperature, and the amount of light falling on the panel. In real life applications on a boat those conditions are seldom, if ever, met.

In your case, the batteries State of Charge will affect the panel's output. As lead acid batteries approach 100% SOC the internal resistance of the battery reduces the amount of charge current (amps) that it can accept. The bulk phase of the battery charging will allow as much current as can be produced to enter the battery until a designated voltage is reached. At that voltage the controller shift into the absorption mode where it tries to maintain the specified charging voltage while allowing the current to decrease due to the internal resistance of the battery.

What you are seeing is likely the normal operation of the controller. Look at the History tab on the app. It will show you how much time was spent in bulk, absorption and float. When I used LA batteries with solar, I found the controllers spent a lot of time in absorption and float and very little time in Bulk. After the switch to LiFe PO batteries the profile is entirely different with little to no time in float, very little time in absorption, and almost all of the time in Bulk. The reason is LFP battery's ability to accept high charge currents until the battery is fully charged which LA batteries are not able to.

The controller monitors battery voltage and uses that data to determine which stage of the charge protocol should be used. If there are other charge sources the controller may read those voltages and reduce the panel's output. This can be manipulated by setting the voltage set points at slightly different values for the different charge sources.
 

Johann

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Jun 3, 2004
495
Leopard 39 Pensacola
4% is the typical tail current setting for the battery monitor to synchronize to 100% (in Lead Acid batteries). The charger tail current (if you use it) would be different. It would depend on your battery. Lifeline defines a fully charged AGM battery as one at absorption voltage with 0.5% tail current. But if you have loads (and no networked monitor) you may never reach 0.5%. In this case, the absorption time setting would trigger the transition to float.
 
Feb 16, 2021
423
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
So how do I configure my settings to ensure I don’t overcharge or otherwise damage my batteries as well as get optimal charge from the panels?

We’ve been connected to 30A shore power for 24 hours now, the batteries are well charged, but my Victron controller still shows charging in the bulk phase.
 

Attachments

Jan 11, 2014
12,848
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The Bulk setting would be better named, Constant Current stage, Absorption should be Constant Voltage stage. It is easier to understand what the controller is doing.

In the Constant Current stage the charger or controller will supply as much current as the battery can accept. In low SOC conditions the voltage will be low and the current as high as the device (charger or controller and panels) can produce. With lead acid batteries as the SOC increases the internal resistance also increases. Ohm's law tells us that as resistance increases the voltage must increase to maintain a constant current (amps going into the battery). So the voltage will rise as the battery's SOC increases. When the voltage reaches the Absorption voltage, 14.7v in your case, the controller will hold at 14.7v and decrease the current going into the battery, Ohm's Law again.

The screen shot shows your panel producing very little power, only .6a @ 18.52v. This voltage is too high for your batteries, so the controller brings it down .7a @ 13.48v, that is all the power available to put into the battery. The definition of Bulk or Constant Current stage is the charge source is putting all of the available power into the battery until the voltage rises to the Absorption voltage (14.7v). That is what the controller is doing, so it is in the Bulk/Constant Current stage and will remain there regardless of the actual amperage being produced so long as the voltage stays below the Absorption voltage. It is acting entirely as it should in this low light situation.

All this is based on Ohm's Law, a simple formula, E= I R^2, Voltage is equal to Amps times Resistance squared. This relationship can be a challenge to really understand and understand its implications. Stick with it and eventually it will make sense and you'll wonder why you struggled with it.

Go online and search for Ohm's Law and work through some of the lessons. Much of electrical systems design is based on Ohm's Law.
 
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Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,460
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
The Bulk setting would be better named, Constant Current stage, Absorption should be Constant Voltage stage. It is easier to understand what the controller is doing.

In the Constant Current stage the charger or controller will supply as much current as the battery can accept. If the current is not constant it is not a constant current stage. Typically this is going to just be maximum power In low SOC conditions the voltage will be low and the current as high as the device (charger or controller and panels) can produce. With lead acid batteries as the SOC increases the internal resistance also increases. Ohm's law tells us that as resistance increases the voltage must increase to maintain a constant current (amps going into the battery). So the voltage will rise as the battery's SOC increases. That is true because the battery voltage is a function of the state of charge, not of its "resistance". When the voltage reaches the Absorption voltage, 14.7v in your case, the controller will hold at 14.7v and decrease the current going into the battery, Ohm's Law again.

The screen shot shows your panel producing very little power, only .6a @ 18.52v. This voltage is too high for your batteries, so the controller brings it down .7a @ 13.48v, that is all the power available to put into the battery. The definition of Bulk or Constant Current stage is the charge source is putting all of the available power into the battery until the voltage rises to the Absorption voltage (14.7v). That is what the controller is doing, so it is in the Bulk/Constant Current stage and will remain there regardless of the actual amperage being produced so long as the voltage stays below the Absorption voltage. It is acting entirely as it should in this low light situation.

All this is based on Ohm's Law, a simple formula, E= I R^2, no ohms law says voltage is amps times resistance, power is amps squared times resistance Voltage is equal to Amps times Resistance squared. This relationship can be a challenge to really understand thats obvious and understand its implications. Stick with it and eventually it will make sense and you'll wonder why you struggled with it.!!!!

Go online and search for Ohm's Law and work through some of the lessons. Much of electrical systems design is based on Ohm's Law. Don't give up your day job.
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,002
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Victron documentation states 4% of bank Ah, but that would be 18.4A, and I have yet to see the charge current surpass 7A when in full mid day sun. What am I missing?
Your MPPT IS A 75/15. Max output would be 15 amps.

Two 50watt solar panels
Max amps = 100 watts ÷ 12 volts ≈ 8.3 amps (under ideal conditions like full sun at solar noon)
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,848
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
In the Constant Current stage the charger or controller will supply as much current as the battery can accept. If the current is not constant it is not a constant current stage. Typically this is going to just be maximum power
Because solar output is highly variable on a second by second basis, the controller's output necessarily varies, the controller takes what it gets and passes it along. Smart chargers and controllers typically start charging with the CC stage to determine the SOC of the battery. They then stay in that stage until the internal resistance of a battery rises to a point where the voltage required to produce that constant maximum current reaches the Absortion voltage. When it reaches that voltage, it holds the voltage constant and drops the current to maintain that voltage. When the current reaches a set point, the charger/controller drops the voltage and the current to a float stage. The same happens with a smart regulator. Shore power chargers a a little different because the power supply is constant.

The internal resistance of all LA batteries decreases with a decrease in the batteries SOC. Victron Controllers are not concerned with the batteries voltage beyond the difference between the solar panel's output voltage and the battery voltage which must be at least 5 volts. The charge stage, CC or CV is not determined by the battery voltage, it is determined by the battery's internal resistance and its ability to accept the amperage being presented to it. Reduce its acceptance rate (due to increased internal resistance) and the voltage goes up and the current down, basic Ohm's Law.

There is of course a relationship between the battery's voltage, SOC, and internal resistance. The higher the SOC, the higher the voltage and the internal resistance. Some devices, like the Balmar SG200 do use voltage, along with some other information, as proxy for SOC, other regulators, like Wakespeed and Zeus, use a shunt to measure the amps going in and out to calculate SOC.

All of what I said can be demonstrated by using the same solar charging system on a LA battery bank and a LFP battery bank. When I had LA batteries there was clear evidence on the history display of the controller changes stages from CC to CV to Float. After changing to LFP batteries the controller rarely goes into any stage but CC, unless I am motoring a lot or on shore power. The reason this occurred is because LFP has a flat charge/discharge curve and can accept the full current output until somewhere above a 95% SOC where as with LA batteries the internal resistance begins to limit acceptance at around 80% SOC causing the controller to shift to the CV stage.

Yes, I made an error in the Ohm's Law formula, it is indeed E=I*R, I attribute the error to an oversight and a late night post. Regardless of the error, the important idea is the relationship between resistance, voltage, and amperage and how it effects battery charging and controller/charger behavior.

Snide remarks add little or nothing to anyone's understanding of a topic and only serve to undermine the speaker's credibility.
 

Johann

.
Jun 3, 2004
495
Leopard 39 Pensacola
So how do I configure my settings to ensure I don’t overcharge or otherwise damage my batteries as well as get optimal charge from the panels?

We’ve been connected to 30A shore power for 24 hours now, the batteries are well charged, but my Victron controller still shows charging in the bulk phase.
The Victron MPPT restarts in the Bulk phase every morning. If you are on shore power, and are happy with how the shore charger is handling your batteries, you can adjust the MPPT “Absorption voltage” to the same as the “Float voltage”. The MPPT will still go through bulk and absorption, but the voltage will stay at float voltage.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,848
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The Victron MPPT restarts in the Bulk phase every morning. If you are on shore power, and are happy with how the shore charger is handling your batteries, you can adjust the MPPT “Absorption voltage” to the same as the “Float voltage”. The MPPT will still go through bulk and absorption, but the voltage will stay at float voltage.
Another way to skin this cat is to set the Controller voltage .1v below the charger's Absorption voltage which should be East Penn's recommendation. The MMPT will see the batteries as being fully charged and drop to float. When the charger is turned off, the battery voltage will drop and the MMPT will sense this drop and begin charging again.

I have yet to see the charge current surpass 7A when in full mid day sun. What am I missing?
100 watts of solar is equal to about 8 amps @ 12v in ideal conditions. If you are getting 7 amps in full sun you are doing well. In general on average you can expect to get about 3 times the nominal wattage over the course of a day, in your case, 3 * 100w. = 300 watt-hours or about 25 amphours. Some days you'll get more, lots of days you'll get less. Production will improve with LFP batteries because of the reasons I wrote about earlier and based on 2 years of living aboard with both LA and LFP batteries.

A factor often overlooked in the solar power poduction is the panel quality. Better more efficient panels cost more and yield better results. Too many people focus on the dollar cost and not efficiency.
 

Johann

.
Jun 3, 2004
495
Leopard 39 Pensacola
That is true because the battery voltage is a function of the state of charge, not of its "resistance".
While open circuit voltage may be an indicator of battery SOC, during charging the increasing internal resistance is responsible to a degree for the increase in voltage given a constant current. BTW “Constant current” is a defined charge phase in the IUoU charging scheme. It does not necessarily mean that constant current is being held. Current can vary for a variety of reason.


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