Changing Impeller on Universal 5411

shank

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
Hello,

I have a 1982 Catalina 27 with a Universal 5411 and I would like to change the impeller on it. I'm not having any problems with it but the previous owner is unsure when it was last changed. The water pump looks like it was changed at some point because it has the newer model Sherwood pump found here which I don't think was normally used on a 82 model. The Catalina Direct site has a lot of nice information on the different water pumps used over the years and of course it looks like I have the most difficult one to change the impeller on. Catalina Direct says "Three machine screws fasten the cup onto the body of the pump. The heads of the screws are only accessible from behind the cup, an extremely unfortunate design choice." Another user of a different thread on this forum said it was "hell to change".

Does anyone have any advice or guidance on changing the impellers on these pumps?
 

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shank

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
JoeWhite said:
Do yourself a big favour and replace the pump with Oberdorfer. Read more here

Sail La Vie | 1999 Catalina 36 MK II

mei1970.org mei1970.org
Let us know about your success.
Haro
Click to expand
Thank you for the response. I don't think the replacement Sherwood pump is that old, there's nothing wrong with it now and it costs $600 new. Why do you advice replacing the whole pump rather than just the impeller?
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
22,770
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
shank said:
Why do you advice replacing the whole pump rather than just the impeller?
Click to expand
The reason is twofold:
1. The degree of difficulty in changing the impeller because the pump design is so stupid
2. The Sherwood is a crappy pump. Here's why:
Why SHERWOOD Raw Water Pumps leave a LOT to be desired: See reply #7 here: CNG & Sherwood Pump Dissection

I like these 90 degree screwdrivers:
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Parsons

Parsons

.
Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
I've got the same Sherwood pump on Catalina (Westebeke 30), and agree with Joe White and Stu Jackson that it would be pleasant to replace it, however ... it ain't leaking (yet). (1) Close the seacock (don't ask me how I found this out!). (2) Mine requires a 7/16" hex to remove three hex bolts, and the cup comes off the front. The impeller is just pushed onto a slotted shaft (don't knock the shim loose). In the process of removing and replacing the three hex bolts, you WILL drop at least one into the engine pan, so clean it out first. (3) It doesn't really matter which way you bend the fins as it will turn around inside the fitting, but you will need to compress them all to fit the cup over the impeller. (4) A little dish detergent or KY jelly helps the cup over the impeller blades, and keeps it all lubricated until water starts running through. (5) Do not over-torque the aluminum or you'll buy your new Oberdorfer sooner rather than later.
 
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Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
22,770
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Parsons said:
In the process of removing and replacing the three hex bolts, you WILL drop at least one into the engine pan
Click to expand
Or place a towel underneath what you're working on. Saves cleaning...:beer:
 
shank

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
Thanks very much for the advice, everyone. There are other things that I want to address so I think I'll just be cheap and replace the impeller in the Sherwood for now and get the Oberdorfer when the time comes.

Is it weird to enjoy working on the boat as much as sailing it?
 
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jssailem

jssailem

.
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Shank
Your image is of the wrong pump. You need to look at the left side of the engine (based on the image you took). On he side where the oil dip stick is protruding.
Here is a picture of the Sherwood Water Pump.. and the impeller. This one is ok.

1609806427724.png
 
shank

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
Hey John, My picture is of my engine (not a stock photo) with the new(er) Sherwood. Apparently, Sherwood changed the design of the pump at some point. Here is a photo of the old one. Looks like we've both been watching the same YouTube videos. The old one had the screws on the front plate to make changing the impeller easier but the newer one has the machine screws accessible only from the back. The general consensus seems to be that the Oberdorfer is a better pump and cheaper too.
 

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jssailem

jssailem

.
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
yes the oberdorfer is an excellent pump with a lot of users.
 
jssailem

jssailem

.
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
i feel fortunate not to have a universal. i have a perkins 4.107 old school diesel engine. access to the water pump means laying on top of the engine and working with two arms dangling over the end removing the screws carefully. should you get fumble fingers the parts or tools are dropping about 5 feet to the bottom of the bilge. a black hole.
 
shank

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
That wouldn't work for me. I'm very clumsy and would lose everything in the black hole.
 
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JoeWhite

JoeWhite

.
Mar 6, 2008
1,089
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
shank said:
Thank you for the response. I don't think the replacement Sherwood pump is that old, there's nothing wrong with it now and it costs $600 new. Why do you advice replacing the whole pump rather than just the impeller?
Click to expand
Shank, please view the link I provided to find out why to abandon the Sherwood.
Poor quality construction, impossible to work on. If you are handy you can purchase the pump for $230.00 and modify the base with simple tools.
The link provides all the base modification images that I performed.
Haro.
 
shank

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
I spoke with Catalina Direct tech support a little while yesterday and the rep said water pumps from both Sherwood and Oberdorfer have been on backorder for months with no indication yet when they might get more due to COVID. Something to consider in case someone is looking for one.
 
Tally Ho

Tally Ho

.
Jan 7, 2011
4,758
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
jssailem said:
i feel fortunate not to have a universal. i have a perkins 4.107 old school diesel engine. access to the water pump means laying on top of the engine and working with two arms dangling over the end removing the screws carefully. should you get fumble fingers the parts or tools are dropping about 5 feet to the bottom of the bilge. a black hole.
Click to expand
On my Yanmar 2GM20, you have to take the pump off the engine mount to change the impeller. Who designs this,stuff? :facepalm:
 
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