Changing Engine Oil on the hard

[Maine Sail]

I find these work well..

I use one of these, a garden hose shut off valve, and they cost me about $1.29. Regulates flow, allows me "balance" the bucket to the motor and it's already threaded, no adapters needed, for a garden hose..

If you look close at the photo of my in/out bucket you can see a yellow one on the end of the hose.. Quick easy and dirt cheap Ross should love it..

 

[Maine Sail]

Guys!
It is not essential to warm an engine to change the oil!!!!
IF GKuffner had a really bad old contaminated oil problem then yes a warm engine would help but from his comments about keeping it clean he is apparently doing regular oil changes and does not have a "sludge" problem.
Just drain (best but not always possible) or suck the oil out and change the filter!!!
The major thing you are trying to get rid of with an oil change is the acids in the oil pan that are produced during combustion, stay their all winter and corrode your oil pan.
If you are trying to get the "film" oil out of the bearings so the acid does not effect your bearings, good luck! Heating up the oil will not do that. Letting it drain for a long period of time will however. Like when the engine has not been run since you hauled the boat out.
A COLD oil change will suffice IF you do them regularly.

I never run the engine before an oil change but do do them every 50 hours. Who wants to deal with hot oil anyway??? The job is a pain and you want to add hot oil to deal with. REALLY not neceassary!!!!

OR you could heat the oil with a propane torch after you sucked it out if you really wanted to have hot oil to deal with.:dance:

While not absolutely necessary it is considered a good idea. Both Westerbeke and Universal, among other manufacturers, recommend warming the oil and then running the engine after the oil change to build pressure, circulate the fresh oil through the engine and to check for leaks.

Running the engine after the oil change before winter layup will dilute any acids trapped in the dirty oil sitting in areas where it does not completely drain back from, and into the pan. Having rebuilt a fair number of engines and I've yet to see one where every last bit of dirty oil drained back. If you don't run it after changing the oil before layup you'll still have small puddles and areas of trapped, dirty, acid filled oil contaminating the engine. You don't really have to look hard just remove the valve cover and you'll see oil that has not drained back.

Changing cold oil and then running the engine for only a minute or two may cause condensation to form that will not be burned off before winter layup.

You can drain the oil when cold, and yes, it certainly is possible and I've done it, but most sailors use a hand pump and suck through a dip stick. Warm oil flows much easier.


Here's what Gordon Torrenson has to say.
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What we feel is best is, shortly before hauling, get the engine to operating temperature, shut it down, change the oil and filter and then restart the engine to circulate the fresh oil through the engine (and check for leaks). If you are lucky enough to get 100 hours on the engine in a season, you might consider another change. If you move to a climate where you can use the boat year around, go by the hour meter.

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[Ross]

I use one of these, a garden hose shut off valve, and they cost me about $1.29. Regulates flow, allows me "balance" the bucket to the motor and it's already threaded, no adapters needed, for a garden hose..

If you look close at the photo of my in/out bucket you can see a yellow one on the end of the hose.. Quick easy and dirt cheap Ross should love it..

Mainesail, You are absolutely correct. There is 10 dollars worth of fittings in that assembly I posted. It will last long enough to list among my assets for my estate.

 

[Maine Sail]

Mainesail, You are absolutely correct. There is 10 dollars worth of fittings in that assembly I posted. It will last long enough to list among my assets for my estate.

After the nuclear holocaust the cockroaches can use it to winterize..

 

[Scott]

In response to KGuffner's question regarding how to warm an engine before changing oil on the hard, I offered a simple solution to do just that. After a few comments from others I believe I should my clarify my earlier response. The flow regulator I spoke of is nothing more than a simple valve connected to a hose with another 1-2 ft section of hose attached after the regulator. With this section of hose inserted into the raw water intake strainer "reservoir," and flow regulated to intake, no air or pressurized water is introduceed into the pump.. I don't know about other's engines, but my 2gm20f doesn't draw water until the thermostat opens at which time it has reached operating temperature At that point, since I will change oil and winterize sequentially, when the thermostat opens water is added to the "reservoir" with a slight overflow and I allow the oil to continue to warm for a few minutes. Yep, a quart or a gallon of water may overflow into the bilge until the flow is properly regulated, but my bilge is a not virgin to water and I really don't care - easy enough to remove.

Now for the part that will really invite the flamers. After the engine oil is warm, I cut it off and add a pint of kerosene. The engine is then run for 45+/- seconds and shut off. A vacuum pump is then used to remove the oil/kerosene mixture. You would be amazed at the crude that is removed the first time its done this way. Change the filter, add sufficient oil, start engine and pour enough anti-freeze with engine running into the "reservoir" for winterization.

My deceased brother-in-law, mechanical engineer with more than 250 patents, used this oil change method to keep his 911 Targa running perfect for over 330,000 miles without a re-build. It wasn't a diesel but the method works just fine on my trusty little Yanmar. Twenty years and never a problem - it has never failed me - EVER.

I believe this a simple way to change oil and winterize on the hard when you have to. As a scientist, I always have to remind myself of the "KISS" principle. Whenever I forget it, things get too difficult. Maine Sails method is just fine - but too many clamps, hoses, etc.

 

[Maine Sail]

I don't know about other's engines, but my 2gm20f doesn't draw water until the thermostat opens at which time it has reached operating temperature

If the engine is running and the raw water pump is pumping how does it not draw or pass water? There must be a by pass directly to the exhaust where it just by-passes the engine until the thermostat opens or you'd burn out the impeller.

At that point, since I will change oil and winterize sequentially, when the thermostat opens water is added to the "reservoir" with a slight overflow and I allow the oil to continue to warm for a few minutes. Yep, a quart or a gallon of water may overflow into the bilge until the flow is properly regulated, but my bilge is a not virgin to water and I really don't care - easy enough to remove.
.

I'm having trouble figuring out how you don't add water to the sea strainer until the thermostat opens without burning out your impeller or melting the wet exhaust system hoses/waterlift while warming the engine? Clearly I must have read it wrong. The way I read it is that you run the engine until the thermostat opens then turn on the hose? No?

I'm sure there is a logical explanation...

 

[Ross]

If the engine is running and the raw water pump is pumping how does it not draw or pass water? There must be a by pass directly to the exhaust where it just by-passes the engine until the thermostat opens or you'd burn out the impeller.



I'm having trouble figuring out how you don't add water to the sea strainer until the thermostat opens without burning out your impeller while warming the engine? Clearly I must have read it wrong. The way I read it is that you run the engine until the thermostat opens then turn on the hose? No?

I'm sure there is a logical explanation...

I have plastic mufflers that will melt and fill my boat with smelly vapors if my impellor doesn't add water to the exhaust manifold and the exhaust system. I didn't think the statement was worthy of a responce. ;D

 

[Warren Milberg]

I've got a 1986 Yanmar 2GM20f that pumps raw water out the instant the engine begins to run -- or I'm shutting down the engine and go looking for the reason it isn't pumping water out the stern. The previous comment about the need for the thermostat to open in order to "pump" water sounds like a comment on the fresh water cooling side of the engine, not the raw water side.

 

[Hermit Scott]

I'd just wait until I put it back in the water. Save yourself the hassel. I know that's not a clever answer but it is the easiest solution, with the smae results.
Hey, why would you need to run the impeller at all. You could disconnect the belt to the pump, hook a hose right up to where the water pump is feeding into, either the heat exchanger or the engine itself.

 

[sailingdog]

I'd just wait until I put it back in the water. Save yourself the hassel. I know that's not a clever answer but it is the easiest solution, with the smae results.

Not really, the engine would sit all winter with the used motor oil and associated acids eating away at it...not quite the same thing...

Hey, why would you need to run the impeller at all. You could disconnect the belt to the pump, hook a hose right up to where the water pump is feeding into, either the heat exchanger or the engine itself.

So, you think disconnecting or disassembling the waterpump makes more sense than rigging a bucket with a feed hose and putting water hose into it...

 

[SamLust]

Ross is, of course, correct.

The valve is a Globe valve with a rubber washer that everyone seems to hate so much, and is correct for a throttling situation. A ball valve is appropriate only for a straight on or off situation. A ball valve as a throttle will erode and experience problems well before a globe.

 

[Maine Sail]

I
Hey, why would you need to run the impeller at all. You could disconnect the belt to the pump, hook a hose right up to where the water pump is feeding into, either the heat exchanger or the engine itself.

NO! That is a BAD idea and has been discussed here at length.

By-passing the raw water pump and connecting a pressurized hose directly to the HX will result in a HYDROLOCK of your engine rather quickly running or not, especially not & with the hsoe turned on. The HX is designed for the GPM of the water pump and it all works on consort with the water lift muffler and the exhaust elbow injection point.

The engine can keep up with the raw water pump but it will not likely evacuate the contents of a pressurized garden hose at street pressure and flow rates. It will fill your wet exhaust then the water will back up into your exhaust manifold & into your engine. If it's running when this happens it can result in serious damge to the engine.

A few years ago I offered my in/out bucket to a guy who came to borrow my hose to "run his engine". He declined and said he was all set. About 40 minutes later he brough the hose back about 10-15k less wealthy! He toasted his engine.. Oh it kept up for a minute or two but then in went the water and out went a connecting rod...

NEVER connect a pressurize garden hose, or any pressurized water, to a marine engine with a wet exhaust system!

Also many raw water pumps are not belt driven and the face seals on the impeller side are water lubricated, so even if you remove the impeller the seal can burn up..

There is no belt driving this water pump, she's driven of the engine..

 

[Maine Sail]

The valve is a Globe valve with a rubber washer that everyone seems to hate so much, and is correct for a throttling situation. A ball valve is appropriate only for a straight on or off situation. A ball valve as a throttle will erode and experience problems well before a globe.

Sam I don't thin anybody hates globe valves. Globe valves are rather expensive compared to gate valves and as you said are intended as flow balancing valves not primarily as shut off valves.

People do dislike gate valves on boats but a globe and a gate valve are different. For instance I don't think I have ever come across a globe valve used as a seacock.

A 3/4" IPS Brass Globe Valve is $19.99 at Aubuchon hardware Online

A 3/4" IPS Gate Valve is $7.49

A plastic hose shut off of the ball valve type is about $1.99 and you don't need any other fittings to make it work. You won't likely "wear it out" in your lifetime from winterizing engine and it can reduce flow and it can be used to "balance" the bucket. Though not pretty in it's flow restriction it does work as long as the end of the hose is below water to avoid "spray"..

You are 100% correct that a globe valve is the ultimate weapon for reducing and or balancing flow but at $19.99 plus the fittings to adapt it to a garden hose it seems like overkill unless you happen to have some globe valves hanging around the house...

 

[Hermit Scott]

whew

I am glad I proposed that. Anything else not intuitive that will destroy a boat you guys are holding back?

 

[tommays]

ALL water cooled gas, diesel ,outboard ,whatever ,etc marine engines move water though the exhaust 100% of the time there running


Please look at the raw water flow diagram and show me otherwise

 

[Maine Sail]

ALL water cooled gas, diesel ,outboard ,whatever ,etc marine engines move water though the exhaust 100% of the time there running


Please look at the raw water flow diagram and show me otherwise

OK

Not this one..

 

[sailingdog]

Cool...a drystack boat... not too common on sailboats...since soot gets on the sails with a drystack...but pretty common on lobster boats and fishing boats.

 

[tommays]

Dry stack work boats don't count

BUT he is still pumping water 100% of the time even if it is a small amount through a keel cooler

 

[Maine Sail]

Dry stack work boats don't count

Damn you never said there were rules??

Yes ALL boats move water! Whether through a keel cooler, back into the ocean below the waterline or through an exhaust they all move it and pump it. Most all sailboats until you get really, really big use wet exhaust and it needs to be kept wet or it will get messy!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

ALL water cooled gas, diesel ,outboard ,whatever ,etc marine engines move water though the exhaust 100% of the time there running


Please look at the raw water flow diagram and show me otherwise

All except the venerable U 5411 I had in my old ericson 27 which only spit water AfTER the thermostat opened.