centerboard problem on a 23

Indysailor · Sep 12, 2011

If you're lucky, the bolts are still in there, and are removable. In my case, the port side bolts had long ago disappeared, as had any trace of a nut that was supposedly imbedded into the keel. I had to fill and redrill the areas to accept the screws. For what it's worth, when I pulled my board I found that one of the wedges (port side) had been missing completely for quite some time prior to my ownership. The other wedge was holding the board just fine, which is a tribute to the design- the pin slides up with just enough clearance on each side to keep it from moving as long as there is one wedge.

Luckily, it's not where anyone will see it, so repairs don't have to be pretty, they just have to work.

Joe11688 · Sep 12, 2011

Indysailor said:
If you're lucky, the bolts are still in there, and are removable. In my case, the port side bolts had long ago disappeared, as had any trace of a nut that was supposedly embedded into the keel. I had to fill and redrill the areas to accept the screws. For what it's worth, when I pulled my board I found that one of the wedges (port side) had been missing completely for quite some time prior to my ownership. The other wedge was holding the board just fine, which is a tribute to the design- the pin slides up with just enough clearance on each side to keep it from moving as long as there is one wedge.

Luckily, it's not where anyone will see it, so repairs don't have to be pretty, they just have to work.

I always thought that there were nuts embedded in the lead for these Phillips head bolts but this is not the case. There are two metal plates embedded in the lead according to Rudy Nickerson. I'm pretty sure that he said these plates are made of bronze. So if you break a bolt in the keel and can't remove it with an Easy-Out, you can always bore a new hole and tap it for threads.
As for the wedge; you could always reconstruct one out of 1/4" plywood and and epoxy it, adding filler to the epoxy then you could adhere it in the slot with 3-M 4200 Adhesive Caulking.
After the wedge is in place, you can apply bottom paint right over it and you're good to go for many years.

Wayne,
I just gave you some good info on how to remove your centerboard on page 2 of this forum. Check it out.
Jo

Indysailor · Sep 13, 2011

Trinkka said:
I always thought that there were nuts embedded in the lead for these Phillips head bolts but this is not the case. There are two metal plates embedded in the lead according to Rudy Nickerson. I'm pretty sure that he said these plates are made of bronze. So if you break a bolt in the keel and can't remove it with an Easy-Out, you can always bore a new hole and tap it for threads.
As for the wedge; you could always reconstruct one out of 1/4" plywood and and epoxy it, adding filler to the epoxy then you could adhere it in the slot with 3-M 4200 Adhesive Caulking.
After the wedge is in place, you can apply bottom paint right over it and you're good to go for many years.

Wayne,
I just gave you some good info on how to remove your centerboard on page 2 of this forum. Check it out.
Jo

There was no evidence of any plate in the one I rebuilt. What I found on the port side was two 1/2 inch holes, no nuts, nothing. On the other side, the screws did thread into something, but I can't say what it was.

Joe11688 · Sep 13, 2011

Indysailor said:
There was no evidence of any plate in the one I rebuilt. What I found on the port side was two 1/2 inch holes, no nuts, nothing. On the other side, the screws did thread into something, but I can't say what it was.

O'Day made so many changes to these boats that it's anyone's guess on how they put the same models together in different years.
A girl who lives in Carson City NV and runs a sailing school on Lake Tahoe, told me that she was able to drill another hole through the keel of her 87 O'Day 222 and tap it for threads. She replaced her centerboard and the pendant line. Come to find out that they never installed the sheave in the keel slot at the factory on the West coast. She's been having to replace pendant lines almost every year.
I'm only thankful that I never broke a bolt and had to go through that. I coated my bolts with Never Seize before I screwed them back into the keel. I don't know if it will make them easier to remove the next time. Hopefully I'll never need to remove them, but then, who knows?

Indysailor · Sep 13, 2011

Luckily, the arrangement for the pendant on the 23 doesn't include a sheave. It's a straight shot down to the CB. Mine was original and was in really good shape, but I figured since I was down there with the board off, it might as well be replaced.

When I rebuilt the area around the port wedge plate, it was such a mess that it's anyone's guess what was originally in there and I'm resigned to rebuilding it again next time it fails- if ever. But it's not hard, there are plenty of ways to handle it and make things work out. It's worth mentioning again that this design really is pretty clever (Joe posted a nice drawing of it on one of these threads.) Mine was thirty one years old and still functioning...with one wedge.

Joe11688 · Sep 13, 2011

Indysailor said:
Luckily, the arrangement for the pendant on the 23 doesn't include a sheave. It's a straight shot down to the CB. Mine was original and was in really good shape, but I figured since I was down there with the board off, it might as well be replaced.

When I rebuilt the area around the port wedge plate, it was such a mess that it's anyone's guess what was originally in there and I'm resigned to rebuilding it again next time it fails- if ever. But it's not hard, there are plenty of ways to handle it and make things work out. It's worth mentioning again that this design really is pretty clever (Joe posted a nice drawing of it on one of these threads.) Mine was thirty one years old and still functioning...with one wedge.

It's quite possible that even though your keel slot only has one wedge holding the pivot pin that there is still a build up of hard caulking under the pivot pin where the missing wedge was that is still holding the pin in place. I think that it's one of the most ingenious keel centerboard systems ever produced.
Some of the older O'Day 25's had a straight pipe going to the board with no sheave. I know the 1975 O'Day 25 was set up that way. I think the later model O'Day 22 keel centerboard boats were also set up this way before they came out with the O'Day 222 in 1984.

Indysailor · Sep 19, 2011

I think your measurement for the hole sounds about right. If it were mine, I'd drill it out over sized first, fill then re-drill.

I'd probably try to come up with a way to more accurately measure the distance between the top of the wedge slot and the hole where the pendant enters the keel slot. That distance can then be transferred to the centerboard for where the shackle should go. The top of the wedge slot is where the pin resides.

It sounds to me like you're in luck on the bolts. It makes it easier if the seats for them are intact.

If you only trailer your boat then maybe you don't need to bottom paint the board. Those of us who leave ours in the water did, but you won't be accumulating anything, so as long as the surface seems in good repair, maybe a good cleaning and patching of cracks is all you need.
Make sure to clean the surfaces real good before you replace the wedges. Give that caulk a good place to latch onto.

HukilauMike · Sep 19, 2011

Wayne: here are a couple of pictures of the centerboard of my Oday 23 I took before I replaced the pendent line. They show the location of the hole for the shackle.

Joe11688 · Sep 20, 2011

Wayne Steinhour said:
Thanks for the info, guys. I was able to get my centerboard out this weekend. The 4 screws actually came out very easily. I was surprised to see that these were machine screws rather than wood screws. Does this seem right? Could there be nuts up in the holes that these screw into? All 4 of them were in at a bit of an agle, so I expected that they were wood screws and someone had previously angled them in to get them to bite. Also, when I took one of the screws out, a bit of water drained out (maybe a teaspoon or so). Is this an indication of a problem?

The wedges can out pretty easily, too. I figure on using 3M 4200 when putting them back in.

One thing I am not sure about is the exact placement of the hole for the pendant shackle. Since my board was attached with a shackle at the leading edge of the bottom, and I want to move the attachment to the rear, I don't know exactly where to drill the hole. Before I dropped the board out, I taped a sharpie to a long shaft and stuck it down the pendant tube to mark the board. It didn't leave a real clear mark, but it looks like the hole should be about 4 - 4 1/2" up from the bottom of the board. Does that sound right? When I drill the hole, should I drill it a bit big, then coat the inside of the hole with epoxy?

I plan to paint the board when I finish my repair. What kind of paint should I use? Joe, you mentioned using bottom paint, but won't that tend to wear off pretty quickly? I keep the boat on a trailer if that makes any difference.

Sorry about all of these questions. I'm hoping if I get this right, I won't be repeating this little project any time soon. I appreciate all of your help.

Wayne

Wayne,
If you keep the boat on the trailer, there is no need to paint the inside keel slot or the board with bottom paint. Although, if you ever plan on keeping your boat on a mooring or slip some day, it wouldn't hurt to paint these areas now with a good grade of ablative bottom paint while you have a chance. Actually, marine growth never gets up that far into the keel slot to worry about unless the centerboard is left down when the boat is left for long durations at a time and you never want to do that.

As far as where the hole for the shackle should be located is concerned, I would measure from the pivot pin location in the keel slot to center of the pendant line pipe where the pendant line comes out, and that should give you a pretty good idea of where to spot the hole in your board.

Also, you should take a measurement of the depth of the keel slot as well as the width of the centerboard and this will give you a rough idea of the space available for the shackle. You don't want the board squashing the shackle up against the pipe when the board is up.
If there isn't enough room for the shackle, a notch in the board will probably be needed.
I would go ahead and spot where the hole is going to be drilled in the board and drill the hole for the pin and take it for a dry run first. If the board goes all the way up with room for the shackle, then you can remove the shackle, enlarge the hole, epoxy it and re-drill for the shackle pin.
As long a the pendant line goes straight up and down from the pipe and there is room for the shackle between the top of the board and keel slot, it should work out fine I think. If the line is allowed to exit the pipe nice and straight, you're less likely to have frayed or worn pendant lines to worry about. I haven't replaced my pendant line in many years but I do worry about the shackle cotter pins getting broke and I like to check it every year if I can.
Yesterday I finished sanding the bottom of my hull for next year's bottom paint and I lowered the boat down to where it needs to be for the long winter's sleep. I'll be covering it soon.

Joe11688 · Sep 20, 2011

In the words of a famous American frontiersman, "Be sure you're right and then go ahead." Davy Crockett.

RichBone · Sep 20, 2011

What happened to the old hole for the clevis?
That puzzles me. If the old one pulled out there should be some trace of it unless the PO completely covered it over. And if he repaired the trailing edge where the hole was why didn't he put a new hole where the old one was? Why did he put it in the front? THE FRONT? And why did it pull out in the first place. There are lots of old Odays around that didn't have that problem. Is the repair that was done not a very good one or done with inferior materials? Sorry, this is bugging me. Just thinking.
And why is the leading edge cracked? Was it hit? The original filler material shouldn't be able to soak up any water. At least so much that it would swell enough to jam in the slot. Maybe it's not a stock C/B.

Rich

HukilauMike · Sep 22, 2011

If there is lead in your centerboard, it isn't original. The boat was made with an unweighted centerboard. That may explain why yours appears to be so different than others.

RichBone · Sep 22, 2011

HukilauMike said:
If there is lead in your centerboard, it isn't original. The boat was made with an unweighted centerboard. That may explain why yours appears to be so different than others.

Are you sure? It seems like it's heavy enough to have some lead in it.

Rich

Indysailor · Sep 22, 2011

Lead?! How much does it weigh? Mine couldn't be more than 60 lbs. I think is foam core. Post a picture of the board if you can, Wayne. I might remember mine well enough to say whether it looks the same as yours.

RichBone · Sep 22, 2011

Wayne, does your board have a true foil shape like the rudder or is it flat (maybe a plywood core) with just the leading edge rounded and the trailing edge with a little taper?

Rich

RichBone · Sep 22, 2011

Could you get us some pictures?

Rich

HukilauMike · Sep 22, 2011

RBone said:
Are you sure? It seems like it's heavy enough to have some lead in it.

Rich

Yup. No lead in the centerboard. The keel has about 1200lbs of lead in it; the centerboard is unweighted. Its just a hunk of fiberglass surrounding a foam (I believe) core. Weighs about 50 or 60 lbs. It was considered an improvement over the swinging keels on the Catalina's. Because the Oday's ballast is encapsulated in the keel, it is less vulnerable to groundings and damage than the exposed, hanging-there centerboards/keel/ballast on the Catalina's. And, because it is unweighted, you can raise or lower the Oday centerboard with just a hand line. The Catalinas require the use of a cranking mechanism to give you the leverage needed to manhandle about 500 lbs. of lead centerboard.

No, if the Oday centerboard had lead in it, you would know. It wouldn't budge with just the pendent line that is there.

centerboard problem on a 23

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