centerboard problem on a 23

HukilauMike · Sep 7, 2011

Hi Wayne. I would guess that most of us with Oday 23's have had the stuck centerboard problem at one point or another. First off, the attachment point for the centerboard pendent shackle is supposed to be on the trailing edge of the centerboard, not the leading edge. There should be a small hole drilled near the trailing edge of the board; the clevis pin on the shackle attaches through this hole. If your boat has a different set up, it didn't come that way from the factory. I can't see how the shackle could be attached to the leading edge of the board; this would mean that the pendent line would have to travel along the side of the board on its way up into the centerboard slot, thereby effectively widening the width of the centerboard. That extra width alone could be jamming your board.

I have heard of water-saturated board swelling to the point where it jams in the centerboard slot, but I don't understand how the swollen board would make the shackle jam; the shackle isn't going to get any bigger, regardless of how swollen the centerboard gets. I don't understand the advice from the Yard; if board is too swollen to fit in the slot, you have to narrow the board or widen the slot (both very big jobs). If the shackle is the thing that is sticking, then you have to replace the shackle with a narrower model.

Do you have any photos you could share to show us your set up? It might make a big difference in the advice you get. However, given that it is really so much easier and cheaper to try a new shackle first, then I would give that a go. Look in catalogues, on line and at your local chandlery for the narrowest shackle that is long enough to clear the edge of the centerboard, and wide enough span it. I note that Rudy at D&R Marine sells a very narrow shackle that is made for this purpose (Rudy used to work at Oday and is the guru). When I was replacing the shackle and pendent line on my 23 a couple of years ago, I did some research and found that the shackle offered by Rudy was definitely the best fit for the 23's slot.

http://www.drmarine.com/products.asp?cat=168

Should you change the attachment point of the pendent line to the trailing edge of the centerboard? IMHO, I think so. Maybe someone moved it because of damage to the original attachment point. I am having trouble visualizing how the system would actually work with the line attached to the leading edge. Anyway, if you can, I would move it back to where its supposed to be.

RichBone · Sep 7, 2011

Since we're nearing the end of the sailing season here in Michigan I'd suggest getting the boat lifted, remove the centerboard, set the boat back on the trailer and spend the winter working on the cb. Good luck. Don't despair you'll have plenty of help here.

Rich

Joe11688 · Sep 7, 2011

Wayne,
What year is your O'Day 23? Does it have a lead keel?

Indysailor · Sep 8, 2011

I think you're on the right track, Wayne. There isn't a whole lot of clearance on the leading edge of the board. I pulled my CB last year and did some work on it, not a huge project to fix cracks and gouges, especially since it doesn't have to be pretty. Definitely move the attachment point to the trailing edge, though. Sounds like that will be tricky, but it's got to be done. I did mine by raising the boat up above the bunks to get enough clearance to drop the board.

Indysailor · Sep 8, 2011

Carefully, Wayne.

I used boat stands to balance the boat and two bottle jacks at the fore and aft parts of the keel where is space enough to jack the boat. The boat stands were placed at the transom and just before the keel (it was tricky to place the fore jacks around the trailer, but I was able to fit them. If you can't do that, you may have to fashion a stand out of timbers, in which case Trinkka has some good pics to help visualize this).

I raised the boat a little, then raised the boats stands to balance the boat. At all times, I had a triangular support system in contact with the boat- two jack stands and a bottle jack- and I only raised it about 3/4 of an inch at a time. Patience is important.

Once I got the boat high enough, I put replaced the bottle jacks with jack stands. The centerboard needed about 8-10 inches of clearance to come out, and luckily my trailer has no point of contact between the keel and trailer (not an advantage because it doesn't support the keel, but it makes this work easier. When storing the boat, I use jack stands to support the keel, which is how I came up with my boat raising plan.)

Joe11688 · Sep 8, 2011

Wayne Steinhour said:
So it sounds like the shackle that attaches to my centerboard is non-standard. (By the way, my boat is a 1977 model with a lead keel. I think I heard about the problems on earlier boats on this forum.) The shackle attaches to the bottom edge of the centerboard near the front, so it is at the thickest part of the board. A thin cable runs from the shackle up to the line that is used to raise the board. The shackle is made of flat, thin metal, and the rivet holding it is pounded very flat. It adds maybe 1/8" in thickness on each side of the board, but the clearance is tight. It wouldn't take much swelling of the wood to bend the thin arms of the shackle enough to make it jam. The only reason I can think of for this attachment point is to make it accessible while the boat is sitting on the bunk trailer. It sounds like I should really move the shackle to the trailing edge of the board. I'm trying to figure out a way to do that without paying for a lift. Maybe I can cut a slot in part of the bunk that would let me drop the board down far enough. I like the look of the shackle that D&R sells. I'll try to post a photo tomorrow so you can see what my arrangement looks like.

My friend Wayne cut a slot in his keel board for the centerboard on his Seaward 22 to drop through. His boat has a keel/centerboard but the centerboard is made of stainless steel and weighs about 26 lbs. He has the centerboard rigged so that he can remove it from the keel slot.
If you're contemplating on raising your boat off the trailer to get at the centerboard it could be done with four sailboat stands, two on each side of the stern of the boat along with a hydraulic jack under the bow, but you need to empty out the boat and get it as light as possible.
The reason why I say this is possible is because I raised a fully loaded O'Day 26 off the bunks of my friends trailer with my four sailboat stands and a jack under the bow years ago to slide his trailer over to get the keel straight with the keel board. He wanted to get his boat home and the tide had gone down too far to back the trailer into the water and straighten it out. It wasn't an easy task getting his trailer to slide over. We tied a rope to the side frame of his trailer and hooked it to a truck and used a crow bar against the trailer frame to get the one or two inches needed. Had I thought of it at the time, I could have used my hydraulic jack with the wheels on it and jack the center of the trailer's axle up just enough to get all the wheels off the ground, and the trailer would have slid over very easy just on the metal wheels of the jack. We were doing this on the cement that day and the jack's wheels would have rolled. This would have also worked on bare ground with a plank placed under the jack for the wheels to roll. I tried this last year on my trailer and used a set of blocks from a tree in my yard to pull the trailer sideways. It's a good trick to remember.
Boat stands weren't made to lift a boat so I don't advocate that someone use them to lift their O'Day 302 or 28, but they will lift my boat but it goes without saying that this is very dangerous. You are dealing with over a ton of weight and if that boat loses stability, it can roll over and crush a person. The boat needs to be level as it is being raised or lowered or it will lose stability and tip over.

When I raise my boat,-- and I do it every year, I use 6"X6"x 3' wood blocks criss crossed under the stern and bow section close to the keel. I also use a straight powerboat stand under the bow to hold whatever height I can get with the jack.
I just took my boat off the trailer last Saturday and it took me about 4.5 hours. I plan on getting the hull all sanded and ready for next year.
The sandwiched keel boards on my trailer are attached with two strap type plates and four carriage bolts. When the nuts on the carriage bolts are loosened, I can slide my keel boards to one side of the trailer frame. This makes it very easy to have access to the bottom of the keel and allows me to move the trailer out from under the boat.
If you had a gantry or a long metal eye beam to support the bow, you could jack that boat right up and roll that trailer out from under the boat with no problem. Like I said,--it's dangerous but I know a guy who did this exact thing with his O'Day 25. He was a complete novice at sailing but being an auto mechanic, he could figure out clever ways of doing things of this nature.
I would pull that board completely out and reconstruct it. Then I would measure the distance from the pivot pin to where the pendant line rope enters the keel slot. You will probably want to spot that hole in the trailing edge of your centerboard somewhere within this measurement.
Then you could drill the hole a little wider, fill it in with epoxy and let it set up, then drill the right size hole for the shackle pin. This is something you could do after you get the centerboard back in the keel slot.
I think that the location for the shackle pin is crucial. You don't want the pin to be off a few inches and have problems with the pendant line fraying later on.
I really have no knowledge of the way O'Day set up the centerboards on the 23s. My 222 has a sheave up inside the keel slot located in a small pocket. I think is depends on how the pipe is set up. If you have a winch on your table stanchion for your centerboard pendant line, then chances are there is no sheave and this probably holds true if your pendant line pipe goes straight down from the cockpit companionway step. Wayne's Seaward 22 is set up this way, only his pendant line pipe is located just inside the cabin near the companionway and it's pretty accessible. He has no sheave in the keel slot of his boat.
So these are just a few ideas that you can kick around. Just don't do anything on your boat that you don't feel comfortable in doing. I'm posting some centerboard sketches to give you an idea of where the holes are for the shackle, but bare in mind that these boats have pendant lines that come up into the cockpit and that both boat have sheaves in the keel slots. Good luck!
Joe

Indysailor · Sep 8, 2011

I raised mine by jacking the keel. I thought about supporting between the bunks and hull, but a friend lent me his stands. One obstacle to shimming along the bunks in my mind was that mine are a little more outboard than yours (and angled) and it would have been a pain to keep the shims in place.
If you are not planning on removing the board, you may actually have to raise it higher. By removing wedges and pin, I was able to angle and remove it without having complete clearance. If it's still pinned in, then you may have to lower it further to actually get to the trailing edge. Does this make sense?

Joe11688 · Sep 9, 2011

Wayne Steinhour said:
Here are a couple of photos of my boat. One shows a detail of the shackle. The other shows the boat on the trailer. I'm thinking that I can jack the boat up carefully and put blocks between the keel and the main bunk and between the hull and the stabilizer bunks. I have quite a bit of scrap wood of various thicknesses so I can probably go up about 1/4" at a time. Am I right in assuming that I should use my jacks under the keel and shim between the keel and the bottom bunk first, then shim up between the hull and the side bunks? My thinking is that the bottom bunk supports most of the weight and the side supports are mainly to stabilize. I figure that I only need to go up about 8" to get enough of the board exposed to move the shackle, so I can just use blocks of wood between the boat and the trailer bunks without having to go to external stands. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

Wayne,
I wouldn't jack the boat up from the keel, it's too dangerous. If you can borrow four sailboat stands for the stern and place a hydraulic jack under the hull close to the front of the keel it would be much safer. You could shore up under the keel by placing wood on your keel boards as you are jacking, just as an extra precaution. If something goes wrong while you're jacking, the keel won't fall very far. If you don't have a straight powerboat stand to place under your bow, you could use wood blocks and criss cross them. I took some 4"x4"x3' pieces of wood and cut them on the diagonal and make wedges out of them. Wedges come in handy for filling in small gaps. You could do the same thing with old power company cross arms that they would probably give you. They also work well for shoring under the bow or stern. I use old piece of rug under my shoring and on top of the stand poppets. If you don't have a straight powerboat stand, a large car stand will work if it's placed on a hard level surface.

The sailboat stands are key to doing this. I bought my stands at Brownell's Boatyard in Mattapoiset Ma. where they manufacture them and it was the best investment I ever made. I bought four SB-3s off them. I picked up my powerboat stand in a yard sale for $15.

Think it through before you do anything. If you know any power company linemen or someone who does rigging, you could ask them questions and get advice.
Looking at the picture that you just posted, the PO may have installed the shackle on the board either because he couldn't get at it the area of the board to install it where it was supposed to be placed, or maybe the shackle was hitting the top of the keel slot and restricting the board from going all the way up. I honestly believe that you're going to have to get that boat up high enough off the ground so that you can lower that board and see what's going on in the keel slot after your place the shackle on the trailing edge where it's supposed to go.
If it turns out that there isn't enough room for the shackle, you'll need to get one that's shorter, or cut a V notch in your board to make the shackle fit. One of the guys on this forum had a 25 with his centerboard set up with his pendant line shack in a V notch. I don't know if the factory did this to their OD 25s that year when they manufactured the boat, or a PO Mickey Moused it that way. It worked though.
It could be worse Wayne. The Quick Step sloops had the centerboard pendant lines molded right into the fiberglass and the centerboards were very heavy with lead added. The line went through the board almost to the leading edge.

Let us know how you make out.
Joe

RichBone · Sep 9, 2011

Or you could go back and have the boat yard lift the boat and be done safely and quickly. If the board has expanded and has cracks in it then it would be many times easier to remove the board to work on it and like Joe said you can inspect inside the trunk. If you're going thru the trouble of raising the boat, raise it high enough to remove the board.
If you can't access the screws and plates that hold in the board raise it enough to remove the keel board and remove the plates and screws before you raise the boat too far (for safety, and I can't stress safety enough. I spent 35 yrs working around and rigging heavy ass stuff). Then as you're raising the boat you'll know how far to go to remove the board.
Go slow and easy. If you're using bottle jacks get at least an 8 ton. You might think a 4t would do it but the rating is how much the jack will hold not how much it can easily lift. In my experience a 4t won't lift 8000#. It'll struggle with half that.

Rich

RichBone · Sep 11, 2011

Wayne Steinhour said:
I got started with jacking the boat up this weekend, going very carefully. It's raised up about 1 1/2", setting on 2 x 10 blocks. Before I get too far along, I am wondering exactly what I will need to do to get the centerboard out. On each side of the pivot point I see a plate with 2 screws. Do I just need to take out these 4 screws and the board will come out? Will there be any tricky alignment issues to deal with when I put it back in?

Right, take out the screws and two wedges. Careful taking the screws out so you don't strip the heads. It takes a large phillips screwdriver. No. 2 I think. No alignment problems. The wedges might be stuck on with boat caulk, should be able to pry them off with a putty knife.

Rich

HukilauMike · Sep 12, 2011

Wayne Steinhour said:
I got started with jacking the boat up this weekend, going very carefully. It's raised up about 1 1/2", setting on 2 x 10 blocks. Before I get too far along, I am wondering exactly what I will need to do to get the centerboard out. On each side of the pivot point I see a plate with 2 screws. Do I just need to take out these 4 screws and the board will come out? Will there be any tricky alignment issues to deal with when I put it back in?

Wayne: here is a print out I made of step by step directions on how to remove an Oday centerboard. It is from an earlier post on this site. The last time I looked, the post was still there, but the pictures were nowhere to be found.

HukilauMike · Sep 12, 2011

Part 2

RBone said:
Right, take out the screws and two wedges. Careful taking the screws out so you don't strip the heads. It takes a large phillips screwdriver. No. 2 I think. No alignment problems. The wedges might be stuck on with boat caulk, should be able to pry them off with a putty knife.

Rich

Part 2. One more to come.

HukilauMike · Sep 12, 2011

HukilauMike said:
Part 2. One more to come.

Ooops. No more files. My bad. Those four files are it.

Joe11688 · Sep 12, 2011

Wayne Steinhour said:
I got started with jacking the boat up this weekend, going very carefully. It's raised up about 1 1/2", setting on 2 x 10 blocks. Before I get too far along, I am wondering exactly what I will need to do to get the centerboard out. On each side of the pivot point I see a plate with 2 screws. Do I just need to take out these 4 screws and the board will come out? Will there be any tricky alignment issues to deal with when I put it back in?

Wayne,
You need to go very easy in removing the Phillips head bolts so you don't break them. Use WD-40 to lube them. I had to use an impact screw driver to remove one stubborn bolt and it took me quite a while to get it out. I honestly believe that a cordless impact electric drill with a Phillips bit would be better suited for this job than an impact driver. There's always one bolt that is going to give you some trouble.
The two wood screws in the plates should be removed first. They go into the bottom of each of the wedges.
If you mess up the wedge a little you can always reconstruct the damaged area with West System epoxy with a filler.
If you break one of bolts off in the keel, all is not lost because there is a plate inside the keel on both sides of the keel slot. Try not to break any bolts if you can help it. It's best to spend that extra time in working the bolt back and forth until you're able to remove it.

The two wedges are held in place by an adhesive caulking. I was able to cut through the caulking with a fish fillet knife. I heated the blade a little with my torch. I also used a putty knife with a heated blade. Just try to work the point in between the wedge and the slot and cut around it. It will loosen up. I sometimes use my wife's electric hair dryer to heat up stickers and decals that I want to remove. Applying heat to the wedges with the drier set on "hot" will soften the caulking or anything for that matter.
After the wedges are out you need to remove any caulking in the slots that might prohibit the fiber pivot pin from sliding through the slot. This fiber pin is what the board pivots on and once you get the slot cleaned out, the board and pin should drop right out fairly easy.

When I was about ready to remove my centerboard, I didn't want it to fall right out of the slot. I took a couple of long ropes and ran them over the top of the cabin to the bottom of the keel. where I could tie them around the bottom of the keel. I tied a bowline on one side of each rope near the keel and ran the other ends through the bowline with a round turn and two half hitches. This way, I was able to control the tension of the ropes while laying down under the keel. I also wedged a stick under the centerboard from the ground to hold it up, but you get the idea. Just let the board come out without conking you on the head or hitting something when it fall out.

After I removed my centerboard, I cleaned out the slot and painted the inside with two coats of bottom paint along with the board.
I didn't apply any paint in the two wedge slots. I think that I used either 3-M 4200 or 3-M 4000 Adhesive Sealant to adhere the wedges.

I went to five stores in my area on Saturday looking for 3-M 4200 and I couldn't find it. All they carried was the 5200 which is too strong to use for most applications of this nature. So stay away from 3-M 5200 if you can. I'm sure you can pick up the 4200 at Worst Marine or Boater's World.
Good luck with this project Wayne!
Joe

centerboard problem on a 23

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