CE Certification

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Claudio

From the horse's mouth

Enclosed is the response from Greg, Hunter Costumer Service, to my question: Does the new H460s come with CE Certification or one has to ask for it prior to ordering? " If the boat is sold in Europe then it gets the CE certificate. If it is sold domestic, it doesn't get a certificate although structurally it is built the same. The conditions that a CE certified boat should be able to endure would also hold true to any domestic boat built in reference to the "Category A,B,C etc.... There is a page in the owners manual that explains these categories. It also shows the NMMA Certification for domestic boats. If you would like to discuss this any further, please call me at 800-771-5556 extension 3044. Thanks Greg Emerson "
 
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Dave

Now we have "our" answer

Thanks Cladio! Now we have a carefully worded "official" answer to the original question. I read this as: 1. NO, none of you have a CE rating on your boat. 2. YES, the boats have a common hull structure and are identical, BUT they are not COMPLETELY the same or we would have said that. We said they are STRUCTURALLY the same. 3. NO, the domestic boats are not CE rated because the hardware and systems are not up to CE Category "A" requirements. 4. YES, the hardware is cheaper on the domestic boats. That's what this is all about. 5. YES, we continue to place the CE Certification notice in the manuals because we can sufficiently confuse the issue while still having the "appearance" of having met the CE Category "A" requirements. 6. Are you confused? Good, it must be working. So, does all of this mean anything to anyone? Does the lack of the certification and the proper hardware or "differences" mean anything upon resale or seaworthiness? Your guess is as good as mine. I'm going sailing!
 
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George Kornreich

Info-on-hold

Up until last year, when you called Hunter and were put on hold you would be listening to a long discussion of the qualities of Hunter sailboats, INCLUDING that they were either (a) manufactured to CE Cat A specs or (b) CE cat A certified (I don't remember which, and there is an improtant difference). Now that is no longer part of the "music on hold." Something changed, probably on advice of council.
 
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Jim

and before

Bob.. asks the question of after 1997.. what about before? anyone know?
 
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Alan

Their website has changed too!

The website for Hunter Marine used to list a specific "CE Certification" for each model. Now it only states that it is available (at extra cost). Such a change is probably an admission of error. Good luck, hopefully they will make good. alan
 
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Dave

They realize, we realize - - -

I wonder how much "additional cost" this represents? Definition of "additional cost": The difference between the the boat you thought you bought and the boat we actually sold you., OR, the real cost of a CE Certification of Category "A" Ocean seaworthiness."
 
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Bob B

Post Production CE Certification Cost

Here is the response I received from IMIC reguarding just their fees: "Bob, Yes, you would have to install the appropriate certified components prior to obtaining a "post production" certification. This would also require an inspection by an inspector from a recognized Notified Body in Europe as your boat is greater than 12 meters. Modules B C would be used (see attachment to last e-mail). There is much more than simply changing components. I can advise and also prepare applications, technical files and inspection if needed. Relatively expensive for you to do. Depending upon your location, the travel expense and (required) fees may make you think twice about this. $120.00 per hour for inspection, $750.00 to process the application, $150.00 to apply for new hull number as you assume the responsibility of the manufacturer for that vessel. Another $800.00 to prepare a required Technical File (about 30 pages) and Declaration of Conformity. Also, a "CE" builders plate must be fabricated at a minimal expense." I have the list of changes from Hunter to achieve CE requirements and the $ amount (with the exception of making the propane a rigid feed instead of our U.S. flexible version) is minimal. The important factors which Hunter has assured me of are that the HATCHES, FUEL TANK AND FEEDS are idendtical. This was a CRITICAL point to me reguarding the seaworthiness of my 450. I received this assurance only yesterday. Bottom line fokes, our boats ARE NOT CE CERTIFIED, therefore are NOT TECHNICALLY CATEGORY ANYTHING even though they are built almost that way.
 
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Claudio

The horse speaks...

This new clarification can be found at the Hunter's website ( first time I see it ). Obviously, somebody at Hunter is following this controversy (which is good). It would be nice to have a price list available to envision the extra cost. "CE Certified boats are available for purchase in the United States, upon special order and for increased cost. As stated in our owners’ manuals, all CE Certified boats will carry a special CE plate, which will be attached to the boat. Boats that are destined for Europe or countries that require CE Certification will have this plate. Boats intended to be sold in the U. S. and most other areas will not carry the plate even though many aspects of the boat comply with the requirements" Best Regards, Claudio.
 
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Greg

Need to gather together

If this thread did nothing else it will hopefully save those buying new boats from such deception. In my opinion, those of us that have purchased boats previously ought to seek certification by Hunter, at Hunter's expense. We need to get together on this issue. They can't be allowed to get away with this. All of our boats are worth less than we thought and resale will be impacted. This was not a mistake, I agree with Dave, it was meant to be confusing as a sales and marketing advantage, at our expense.
 
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Miles

I'd be interested...

In knowing exactly which components of our boats do not meet CE specs. In other words which parts are sub standard and would need to be upgraded in order to get the CE A rating. Are these silly little rubber stamp issues or are there significantly less reliable parts on a US vs. European Hunter? I do hope Hunter addresses this somehow since my boat was certainly sold as CE catagory A, Ocean ready, etc. It seems to be deceptive advertising or worse...
 
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Peter Albright

Only 5 catagories must be invididually certified

by the manufacturer, before the boat itself can be certified. From IMCI The Directive 94/25/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council for Recreational Craft went into effect 16 June 1996. All recreational water craft marketed in the European Union, with a few exceptions, from 2,50 to 24,00 meters in length, both power and sail, will have to comply with the essential elements of the Directive before 16 June 1998. These essential elements have been explained in written Guidelines, by a Commission Sectoral Group, for a boat manufacturers to follow to assure compliance. The Directive specifies five categories of components that must also meet the Directive. They are 1. Ignition protected equipment for inboard and sterndrive engines 2. Start-in-gear protection devices for outboard engines 3. Steering wheels, steering mechanisms and cable assemblies 4. Fuel tanks and fuel hoses 5. Prefabricated hatches and portlights.
 
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Miles

Hmmm, so that means...

That at least one of those five things (#2 doesn't apply) is not up to CE standards on our boats? Interesting that they use different (presumably cheaper) parts on U.S. and "rest of world" models. Oh well, it's still a nice boat and fine for what we do with it but this seems a little deceptive.
 
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Peter Albright

No, not just those parts

Those catagories must carry an individual CE label on the part by itself. Its the same as saying a fire extinguisher must be USCG approved. While the boat may be structurally the same, the methods of installing systems may not be. There are many different ISO standards that apply.
 
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FRANK

ALMOST BOUGHT A 460

Thank you all!!!! I was in the final stages of buying a H460. I am, as we speak printing ALL of the responses, and am going sailing for some hard answers to these questions that you all have brought up. I too am looking at the IPY line and Cabo Rico line. Might be time to look harder at safty and not the cost. Frank
 
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Rich

I think you're missing a crucial point

If I interpret Greg's response it means that domestic boats are CE compliant but not actually certified. Why? They don't have to actually be inspected and certified to be sold in the US. I'm betting most boats produced for domestic sales while compliant don't have the actual certification. That would involve actually having a foreign inspector fly to the US to do the inspections. What would be the point? I was shopping Island Packets awhile back and don't recall a single mention of CE certification. It doesn't mean they aren't but I went to their website and there was no mention of it there either. I'm going to look into some other domestic models to see how many are actually certified.
 
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Greg

Not missing any point-

They don't have a CE Certification beacause they don't meet CE directives. PERIOD. They a "structurally the same", they are not COMPLETELY identical. If they were CE compliant, and they are not, they would carry the CE plaque.
 
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