Catalina 42 around the world ??

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

Will Green

Both my wife and I like the layout and space of the Catalina 42'. We previously cruised the Pacific in a Pearson. The Catalina seems to be of a lighter hull lay-up, is this boat suitable for a circumnavigation ?? Thanks Do well Will.
 
E

ed

no

dont think so, delived a new one a year ago and had problems in bad weather. great coastal boat but not across oceans
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Too lightly built ......

The safety factors (applied to 'strength') are probably HALF what a properly designed ocean voyager would be. I would expect catastrophic rigging fatigue failures, structural failures .... just from the total amount load cycles put on a boat for a circumnavigation .... and not even considering the forces from extreme weather. Other - the cockpit is tooooo big as if/when you get pooped you will ship a LOT of water and the boat will have to squat very deep in the water until it drains. The interior is too roomy with not enough handholds, footholds, proper sea-berths, etc. etc. If you ever let go when the boat is violently pitching/rolling you ARE going to get hurt when you get thrown totally across that wide cabin. The C42 is a nice boat, but definitely not made to take the pounding of an ocean crossing. This is a 'coastal' boat .... maybe OK for 'island hopping' but definitely not one that Id want to bet my life on out in the open ocean. With a capsize ratio much greater than 2 .... makes a C42 *definitely* NOT a boat to be in the ocean. The 'seakindliness' of this boat is also not going to be conducive to an easy passage .... will tire you out constantly by all the quick pitching, yawing, etc. If you want an open blue water boat .... follow designers such Robert Perry, Rober Harris, Bill Creighlock, etc. Pacific, Tayana, Baba, Valiant, Passport, TaShing, CT, etc. ..... boats purposely 'designed' for blue water. go to http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html for comparions (the data on this webpage is a little 'stale' but should give you some idea).
 
R

Rodney

Curious

These kinds of responses are the usual "BeneHuntalina" bashes that are so common on the internet. Ed, how about some specifics re the problems in bad weather? RichH, the numbers on sailcalc don't look so bad - the capsize ratio you say is much greater than 2 is 2.02 and motion comfort is 25+ for a Catalina 42mkII. As far as a big cockpit, you're right. Did you know the cockpit "drain" is 22 inches wide? For all their weaknesses, there sure are a lot of 42s out cruising. Makes you wonder. Mine has been to from Bremerton WA to Mexico and back to SF Bay. No problems. None. Nada. I'll be taking mine cruising someday, destination anywhere its warm. No worries, many friends on 42s have been there ahead of me. Will, check out the 42 website in the included link. Rodney C-42mkII #567 SF Bay
 
A

Andy Horning

Naysayers

The Catalina is a great boat. It will take you anywhere. I think there are alot of folks who over anaylse. Sure there are heavier built boats but who wants to spend a half million on a boat that actually sails good. And who wants to sail on a pig boat just because the hull is 2 inches thick? Just don't go upwind for weeks on end in heavy wind and seas. Who does that anyways?
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Simply ask Catalina 'whats the inbuilt ......

engineering factor of safety in ALL their critical structures. If the FS is near 2 then its a lightweight coastal boat, if it approaches 4 then its a blue water boat. The factor of Safety gives the amount of redundant STRENGTH. Sure you can go around the world on a big Coke Bottle ... but many simply dont make it because they come apart and fall apart. These are not sophomoric rants or unsupported blind brand loyalty ... just plain and simple engineering facts. Take your choice.
 
R

Rodney

My Choice

Was obvious. I'll wave as I sail by. Rodney C-42mkII #567 SF Bay
 
E

Ed

ok ill tell ya,

Im not bashing anything, or anybodys boat or choice in boats. But the deffination of a capable round the world cruiser is different for each of us. I think if anyone studies all crossing of the atlantic you will find that it has been done in row boats too. That just aint the kind you go rent at the lake! There are lots of conciderations with a true blue water boat that just are not a problem for most of us. The boat i was on litterly came apart. bulkheads came loose and the hull was oil canning we used parts from the boat to shore it up at did get there, so i guess you could say it was ok. if thats your criteria. Washingtion to Mexico can be a tough run. but how many days did you have to lay too in 50 or 60 knots. could you reef down your roller furler and main to install a storm tri. or storm jib? I had made lots of crossing in lots of boats, many were not what they should have been for where i was. So i dont know, if you sail arround the world and never get bad weather, or severe storms run aground hard or have any 10 or 12 foot breaking waves poring over the deck then i guess a it would be fine, but it may just not work out that way. If one is to decide to do that much offshore sailing with his family he needs to start with the best equipment he can afford. coastal cruisig boats can be stable and have good numbers. but when it gets bad and your wife falls 12 or 15 feet across a big cabin and lands on the hull side whith the t.v and the microwave piling in on top dont say you werent at least given a suggestion to read about offshore cruising boats a bit more! If thats a nay sayer so be iT. Best wishes.
 
E

ed

OH forgot something

I forgot to mention the tracks pulling out of the deck and the main sail tearing up
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
As Ed said....

If ..... which a lot of that comes down to luck and a lot of it is good seamanship. I have to agree that if your taking a family, then you shouldn't be as risky. I know I do all kinds of stuff when it's just me because I like risk, but when others are involved, I tend to be a little safer. How can seamanship make a difference....lots of ways. Knowing the best time to leave for you destination is a good thing to know and each corner of the globe has it's good and bad windows. Constantly checking the weather reports and playing it safe, avoiding bad weather. Knowing which type of tactic to use for the bad weather you incounter, such as feathering, heave-to, running with a drag, how much sail to have up...how to have it trimmed to reduce stress on the rig and rudder, what type of sail to have up. Knowing the area your at, the dangers such as reefs and shallow spots and currents. Knowing how to conserve resources during your journey. There are lots of things that a skipper can or not do that will determine how strong a boat they need. Most will say get a strong boat designed for blue water sailing, so when you do make a bad decision, it will not cause the boat harm because you will make a bad decision. Skippers are people and people make mistakes everyday...now add all the stress, lack of sleep and the bad weather and that spells mistake. On the other hand, I own a H376 and I hope to take it around the world too. It's a little stronger then the C42 but not by much. I will mostlikely be by myself when I do it so if I make a bad bad mistake, well, it's just me that has to float out in the water until a passing ship can see my flare :)
 
E

Eric

Catalina 42 for blue water

Will, Reading these posts is giving me flashbacks and symptom of PTSD! I have to side with Ed. I had the "pleasure" of sailing a Catalina 42 from Bermuda to CT in early May. While crossing the Gulf Stream, we had a hell of a blow. As Ed indicated, bulkheads ruptured, screws came out, and the two, yes two, heads became inoperable. With six peeps on board I will leave that situation to your imagination. After the steering cable parted, and we knew that it was not a matter of if, but when, we had to lay ahull. The wing keel made it impossible to heave to in those conditions, so we were broadside to the seas, and those seas were huge. They broke over the boat regularly and with tremendous and catastrophic results. Anyway I am sure that you get the picture... so no, no me not ever again...I go with a Passport thanks. Eric
 
F

Franklin

Eric

Are you saying the cable from the wheel to the rudder quadrant broke? Didn't you have an emergency tiller? If you didn't have rudder control, then I would say that is your problem when trying to heave-to, not that you had a wing keel. I can believe a wing keel having a hard time staying in a slick, but with rudder control I find it hard to believe you couldn't do better then laying ahull. I could be wrong, but I don't think the sea conditions had anything to do with the heads, bulkheads, yes. BTW: From what I've read, that trip should have been post-poned until late May or June because the northerns still come in early May.
 
W

Wayne

common sense prevails

I guess there's two ways to go ocean sailing. Either you just go for it and take on all that nature can throw, or you plan it carefully and allow for weather thats just no fun. With the modern equipment we have at our finger tips these days there is just no excuse for being out there in Hurricans and gale force winds. I read about a bloke who sailed around the world and never got caught out in a storm, he just sat them out and waited until he had good weather for the next leg. Admittedly he did a lot of island hopping and land hugging but he did it safely. To me thats good seamenship.
 
May 18, 2004
386
- - Baltimore
Eric

I did Marion to Bermuda in June and we got the *#@& beat out of us. One boat retired with a broken rudder shaft and even our steering gear suffered (very heavy cruising boat). Obviously some people here don't believe anything that doesn't agree with their viewpoint. As you said, getting bashed around on an empty horizon will adjust that for you.
 
E

ED

Oh now i see

Some of you think the weather service can keep you out of trouble. maybe you should read about fastnet, or the more recent race across the bass straits when bad weather was not forcasted. or you should concider the local storms we get in florida like the now name storm a couple years ago. And i guess if they would have had better reports on the outer banks a few years back there would be nobody caught in the perfect storm. The question here was not- down the coast it was arround the world. on a good day its bad in the southern ocean. but i guess for those who have not seen a bad storm come up that was not anticipated whould have no clue as to what we are speaking of.
 
Jun 2, 2004
425
- - Sandusky Harbor Marina, Lake Erie
Capsize Screen of 2.02

After all the research and literature on the subject, if a boat designer offers a boat with a capsize screen over 2.0, I take it that they are not designing for blue water work. We just returned from a great charter in the San Juans on a Catalina 30, and chartered a Catalina 34 in the Apostles. We loved our time on both boats. But the capsize screen of the 42 says to me, "We designed this boat for coastal cruising, not for blue water!" Both of the charters we sailed were older hulls, and seemed quite well put together to me. While we sailed then in high performance conditions (20 knots of wind) neither was pushed beyond that point in our one week charters. David Lady Lillie
 
Mar 4, 2004
347
Hunter 37.5 Orcas Island, WA
Why risk it?

I am much more familiar with Hunters than I am Catalinas, but they share many of the same characteristics (please, I'm not trying to start a Hunter vs. Catalina thing). In an interview with Hunter management this spring (please see my article published on this site "A Visit with Hunter Marine")they told me that they designed and built boats for the 85% of the market under the bell-shaped curve of people who buy and sail boats. The people who cross oceans and sail around the world aren't in that part of the bell shaped curve (my opinion). This market focus results in design decisions for bright, spacious, airy, boats that are easy to sail and maneuver, and cost competitive and also pretty tough. But the designs are optimized for coastal cruising, not ocean passagemaking(my opinion. Please note this is different from saying they can't cross oceans.). I suspect Catalina would say the same thing. I sail a Hunter 37.5 and I love it for what we do with it. We just took it on an 850 mile 36 day cruise around Vancouver Island. That trip takes you around three very gnarly capes, through some very strong tidal currents, fog, high winds, big ocean waves, etc. The outside of the Island puts you in the open Pacific for about 300 miles. Our Hunter 37.5 performed flawlessly. We like it's space and liveability. It's ease of maneuvering in and out of marinas and fuel docks is great, etc. It's a wonderful coastal cruiser. Would I choose my boat to sail around the world? No. One of my best friends owns a Valiant 40 which he has twice sailed to the South Pacific. I sail on his boat with him frequently. Compared to my Hunter, I'm not high on his boat because it's kind of dark and cramped below deck, not as fast in the light to moderate winds we experience most of the time, not as maneuverable, etc. BUT, it got him safely across the ocean a few times AND it was pitchpoled and dismasted in a major storm off New Zealand by a delivery skipper. It got the delivery skipper and crew safely back to New Zealand. And the boat is still around and very solid. I'm not a salesperson for Valiant. But it is clearly optimized for blue water passagemaking and is not geared toward those of us in the mass market who do coastal cruising. If I were going around the world, I would expect somewhere along the way to get really pounded by wind and waves. I would want every advantage to survive the experience, and I would be willing to compromise the spaciousness, maneuverability, and appearance of my Hunter for a boat with a design optimized (like the Valiant or its counterparts) for very, very tough conditions. Your life may depend on it. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
 
E

Eric

Catalina 42

Franklin, Will, I agree that the crossing from Bermuda to CT should be done in late May to early june, but realistic? No. A charter boat needs to be places at certain times to make money. We did get the weather forcast from the US base in St Georges. It only went out three days. Our crossing was to take six days. Guess what happened on day four? A stong low pressure system came from your state, Franklin, Texas, and ....well you had to be there to understand what it was like. Some information from the log. "Mast becomes unstable, to oscillations the whole length from keel to the top. Amplituede 6", lower floorboards are warping, seats in the cockpit are flexing, mast breaks boot at deck level during oscillations. Near Navigation station: screws pop out of panel. Second attempt to furl Jib succeed, boat runs under bare poles only. Two sea anchors (bucket with a hole amd a milk crate) are brought out on a 110ft rode, A warp of 110 ft is also brought out. Weather has changed to full gale, 30' to 35' seas breaking, spray blowing off, surfaced rippled down the lee side into the trough, driven mist, confused sea. Wind force 10 with higher gusts. Boat runs at speeds of 7-8 knots, and broaches with almost every other wave. Milk crate sea anchor lost, replaced by 20 lb propane tank on a longer rode. Driving rain and thunderstorms with water spouts set in" In the next hours weather continued to get worse. We did rig the emergency tiller, but it was very small and not effective. All six peeps survived and learned alot. the main thing is that we learned that there are Blue water boats and that there are coastal cruisers. Take care, and take care of your own... Eric
 
K

Kevin

Eric, you have made me very happy!

I am very happy that I was not on that trip!
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,140
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Sure.

Despite all the opinions, there are plenty of 42's doing just that. Like any boat, they need some work on details to make them suitable. Geesh, I just read an article from a couple who have been cruising world-wide in a Hunter 37.5, last week, I was moored between a Hunter 40.5 and a Cat 42 all set for cruising (the 40.5 had cruised for years). There was also an Ericson 38 that had been all over. What you may want to consider is a boat that had cruised extensively and buy it cheap since a lot of the stuff you need is not going to add value, it may even reduce it. Rick D.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.