I am surprized to hear C-30 owners describe them as tender. As a prospective buyer I would have assumed that with a ballast to displacement ratio of 42 % that the boat would be relatively stiff. What accounts for this "tenderness?"
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patrick boole
surprised
tender is the last thing i think of whenb rfeferring to the 30. that is one of her best features is how not tender she is.
tender is the last thing i think of whenb rfeferring to the 30. that is one of her best features is how not tender she is.
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Mike Pegler
Tender - NOT!
I have a 1987 standard rig. A brand new set of sails, with a 135 on the furler. Single handed (no crew on the rail), I sail in 15-18 knots, and the boat is perfectly balanced with this sail combo. At 18-22, need to de-power a little, flatten the main, twist the jib, traveller down etc. At 25 knots, a single reef will do. Not a tender boat at all. Other boats I've owned couldn't carry this much sail. I also raced an Islander 36, and the stiffness of the 30, and the Islander are very similar. (Islander 36 is known as a great San Francisco Bay boat, and you know what that means. LOVE my 30.
I have a 1987 standard rig. A brand new set of sails, with a 135 on the furler. Single handed (no crew on the rail), I sail in 15-18 knots, and the boat is perfectly balanced with this sail combo. At 18-22, need to de-power a little, flatten the main, twist the jib, traveller down etc. At 25 knots, a single reef will do. Not a tender boat at all. Other boats I've owned couldn't carry this much sail. I also raced an Islander 36, and the stiffness of the 30, and the Islander are very similar. (Islander 36 is known as a great San Francisco Bay boat, and you know what that means. LOVE my 30.
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LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners
C30's tenderness
C30s may initially seem very stable. Sure as heck doesn't move much when you step on it, anyway. But this initial stability is thanks to the boat's extraordinary wide beam & flat bottom. But the second you get a gust of wind in 500 sf of sail, that stability gets pushed to its limit & the boat heels hard & rounds up. In heavy airs, one must reef early to keep her on her feet. This is the standard definition of "tender". It may not be too tender on pleasant daysails but get in some weather & you're in for an uncomfortable ride. Due to that flat bottom, the boat really takes a pounding going to weather. Bring lots of Dramamine if you're going out in heavy-ish seas! You mention the 42% ballast to disp. ratio. What you're not figuring into that equation is a fairly tall rig and huge main sail. This'll knock you over in a second. Hope this helped! LaDonna
C30s may initially seem very stable. Sure as heck doesn't move much when you step on it, anyway. But this initial stability is thanks to the boat's extraordinary wide beam & flat bottom. But the second you get a gust of wind in 500 sf of sail, that stability gets pushed to its limit & the boat heels hard & rounds up. In heavy airs, one must reef early to keep her on her feet. This is the standard definition of "tender". It may not be too tender on pleasant daysails but get in some weather & you're in for an uncomfortable ride. Due to that flat bottom, the boat really takes a pounding going to weather. Bring lots of Dramamine if you're going out in heavy-ish seas! You mention the 42% ballast to disp. ratio. What you're not figuring into that equation is a fairly tall rig and huge main sail. This'll knock you over in a second. Hope this helped! LaDonna
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Ron
Define Tender???
I don't consider the Cat 30 tender. My 83 Cat 30SR sails well in 20+ knt winds. With a 155% furling genoa and a standard main. In 13 to 16 knts just flatten the sails. At 17-20 knots of wind it is time to take in the first reef on the main. I still leave the genoa out 155%. (At this wind speed, when beating, the rail is generally in the water and the weather helm is strong enough to warrant the reef). At 20-24 knts it is time to furl in to 100%. At 25-28 knts it is time to take in a second reef and furl to 75%. In the 30-35 knt range I furl in the headsail so just a "rag" is up. It is not a very well shaped "rag" either! Over 35 knts only the main and "if I had one, a Gale Sail". All these adjustments are when hard on the wind. As you move to reaching she can handle more sail. I believe the boat sails better on her feet. So that is why I shorten the sail sooner. At times it is most enjoyable to sail "rail down"! But the First Mate doesn't always agree!!!
I don't consider the Cat 30 tender. My 83 Cat 30SR sails well in 20+ knt winds. With a 155% furling genoa and a standard main. In 13 to 16 knts just flatten the sails. At 17-20 knots of wind it is time to take in the first reef on the main. I still leave the genoa out 155%. (At this wind speed, when beating, the rail is generally in the water and the weather helm is strong enough to warrant the reef). At 20-24 knts it is time to furl in to 100%. At 25-28 knts it is time to take in a second reef and furl to 75%. In the 30-35 knt range I furl in the headsail so just a "rag" is up. It is not a very well shaped "rag" either! Over 35 knts only the main and "if I had one, a Gale Sail". All these adjustments are when hard on the wind. As you move to reaching she can handle more sail. I believe the boat sails better on her feet. So that is why I shorten the sail sooner. At times it is most enjoyable to sail "rail down"! But the First Mate doesn't always agree!!!
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Mark
Very Forgiving!
I have only owned my first sailboat, a 88 Cat 30, for a year. When I delivered her from Seattle to Bellingham(approx 100 miles) last winter it was in gale conditions(35+ knots, 6-8' stacked waves). Being new to sailing, I found it odd to be heeling under bare poles(I thought you needed sails up to heel)! I was relieved to reach B'Ham. I was also feeling good about surviving my first storm! It taught me many things, one of which the Cat 30 a forgiving, sea-kindly sailboat! During last season I have been in winds that have overpowered the sails before I could reef(I know, but I've learned now). When her rails are in the water, she is heeling at least 35 degrees. I try to reef before this happens not because I feel she is tender, but I get concerned about the replacement cost of broken standing rigging, and she wants to round up(but doesn't any boat do this?). EVERY TIME I take her out I am amazed at how forgiving she is! She is more than capable of providing a high degree of comfort, speed, and safety!
I have only owned my first sailboat, a 88 Cat 30, for a year. When I delivered her from Seattle to Bellingham(approx 100 miles) last winter it was in gale conditions(35+ knots, 6-8' stacked waves). Being new to sailing, I found it odd to be heeling under bare poles(I thought you needed sails up to heel)! I was relieved to reach B'Ham. I was also feeling good about surviving my first storm! It taught me many things, one of which the Cat 30 a forgiving, sea-kindly sailboat! During last season I have been in winds that have overpowered the sails before I could reef(I know, but I've learned now). When her rails are in the water, she is heeling at least 35 degrees. I try to reef before this happens not because I feel she is tender, but I get concerned about the replacement cost of broken standing rigging, and she wants to round up(but doesn't any boat do this?). EVERY TIME I take her out I am amazed at how forgiving she is! She is more than capable of providing a high degree of comfort, speed, and safety!
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Mark
Cat 30
I just read a surveyors report on the Catalina 30 SR(SpinSheet magazine) and thought this might help you! It stated "...a combination of wide beam, good ballast/displacement ratio of .42, and a relatively low sail area/displacement ratio of 15:1 makes the Catalina 30 a very stiff boat under sail. This is a feature many sailors find comforting". Hope this helps!
I just read a surveyors report on the Catalina 30 SR(SpinSheet magazine) and thought this might help you! It stated "...a combination of wide beam, good ballast/displacement ratio of .42, and a relatively low sail area/displacement ratio of 15:1 makes the Catalina 30 a very stiff boat under sail. This is a feature many sailors find comforting". Hope this helps!
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LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners
Not every boat does it
Rob's Crealock 37, for example, is a VERY stiff boat. The C30, by comparison, is not. Having sailed extensively on both boats, I do have the experience to say that the C30 can definitely be a tender boat. She rounds up, beats to weather, does not have a very good ride in heavy-ish seas, etc, etc. But she is a great sailing boat! The Crealock 37 is a polar opposite. The waterlines are the same on the boat but the 37 rides like a train. She doesn't round up at all. You can put her on a course without an autopilot and she'll sail for hours! If you're comparing a C30 to a dinghy, the C30 would feel very stiff. But if comparing a C30 to a "true" (whatever that means) bluewater boat, the C30 is tender. LaDonna
Rob's Crealock 37, for example, is a VERY stiff boat. The C30, by comparison, is not. Having sailed extensively on both boats, I do have the experience to say that the C30 can definitely be a tender boat. She rounds up, beats to weather, does not have a very good ride in heavy-ish seas, etc, etc. But she is a great sailing boat! The Crealock 37 is a polar opposite. The waterlines are the same on the boat but the 37 rides like a train. She doesn't round up at all. You can put her on a course without an autopilot and she'll sail for hours! If you're comparing a C30 to a dinghy, the C30 would feel very stiff. But if comparing a C30 to a "true" (whatever that means) bluewater boat, the C30 is tender. LaDonna
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Ron
TITANIC TENDER??
I guess if you compare the Cat 30 to the Titanic, it is TENDER! But if you compare it to another boat of the same design and size, she should hold her own. Maybe add the ballast and another (7) feet of boat that the Crealock 37 has and then compare them. The Cat 30 was "designed" to be a coastal cruiser. She was not "designed" to "live aboard", "cross the open ocean", "race", and all the other ways we use our boats. But we do race her, cross oceans with her, and live aboard her. We love our boats and ask many things from them. Define "Blue Water"? The water 50 miles off the coast seems as blue as the water 1000 miles off the coast. In a storm I'd rather be in a "Blue Water boat" than my Cat 30. But if I owned a "Blue Water boat" maybe I'd rather be on a ship? Define "Ship"? Tender may just be "our personal" definition of our boats. My old Victory 21 was "to me" tender. Remember your last "Tender Kiss"? Define that one!!
I guess if you compare the Cat 30 to the Titanic, it is TENDER! But if you compare it to another boat of the same design and size, she should hold her own. Maybe add the ballast and another (7) feet of boat that the Crealock 37 has and then compare them. The Cat 30 was "designed" to be a coastal cruiser. She was not "designed" to "live aboard", "cross the open ocean", "race", and all the other ways we use our boats. But we do race her, cross oceans with her, and live aboard her. We love our boats and ask many things from them. Define "Blue Water"? The water 50 miles off the coast seems as blue as the water 1000 miles off the coast. In a storm I'd rather be in a "Blue Water boat" than my Cat 30. But if I owned a "Blue Water boat" maybe I'd rather be on a ship? Define "Ship"? Tender may just be "our personal" definition of our boats. My old Victory 21 was "to me" tender. Remember your last "Tender Kiss"? Define that one!!
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