Cabin top halyard winch setup to raise the mainsail

[tonyr]

Hi Sirius owners.

My bones are getting older and jumping around the boat the last few years has become a bit slower and more carefully footed. To make things a bit safer I'm considering addition of a cabin top halyard winch and the other necessary parts so I can raise the mainsail from the cockpit. I don't need to worry about the jib because it is furled. Does anyone have some picture examples that I could study while I consider this project? Of course it would be nice to place the winch and route the halyard so they don't interfere with the pop top tent.

Also, if you have recommendations (eg: part brands, cleat or clutch, ...) or any gotcha's that are important to know about I would be very interested to listen.

Best regards

Tony R
Sirius 21, #465, ynotsail

 

[jssailem]

Hi Tony... Been around these parts since 2009. Please your looking at ways to keep sailing.

The ideas for cockpit controls are not unique to your boat. The best strategy would be too look at all the boats in a marina and then adapt the best ideas in a design that fits your boat and serves your needs/pocket book.

The fundamentals are straight forward.

1. Your halyards must be long enough to run up and then down the length of your mast, plus the length from the mast base to your cockpit plus some extra. This usually means a new halyard. Size the diameter to fit the sheaves on the mast and blocks you will purchase.
2. Limit all friction on the leads of your halyards. This will involve a quality exit box if your halyards are internal.
3. Once you have the halyard to the base of the mast you need to turn it towards the route to the cockpit. Here you need a solid block with internal ball bearings. A hard point a the mast base to attach the block.
4. With the halyard on the deck and turned aft, you need to identify a path. along this path you install organizers which change the angle of the "fair lead" around obstacles till you are at the cockpit.
5. Depending on your desired complexity, money and available space you might terminate the line on a cleat, use a clutch to hold the line, install a winch to help with the lift, use a cam cleat to hold the line. Various options and products are available.

Those are the basics.

I find it a lot of hardware. Even the most professional of designed systems are plagued with issues mostly friction and jamming. When this happens you still may have to get out of the cockpit and rush to the mast to deal with the problem.

Best of luck.

 

[Joe]

Tony, here's the basic list. from the mast to the cockpit. First a block at the mast base to turn the halyard outboard to a deck organizer to get going aft again outside the pop top, a cleat placed a foot or so ahead of the winch which you'll want neat the rear edge of the cabin top. Since you've provided no information or pictures about your boat's current set up I'm just basing this on a google pic of a Sirius 21. Btw, here's a YouTube vid of a Sirius 21 with halyards led aft. that helped. There are others, have you given that a try?

The budget solution is this: Get a small standard winch, like a Lewmar 7, install near the edge of the cabin outside the poptop. The cleat (did I mention it has to be ahead of the winch) can be a Vee or Clam cleat... both under $15, or my preference.. a Ronstan C (for cam) cleat. The line needs to turn towards the mast when you get past the poptop's most forward position. I suggest a double deck organizer, or "cheek" block for this. If you install a double you can easily add another line (such as a spinnaker halyard, or a reefing line). I like the Garhaurer Marine deck organizer. I have two on my boat, 2x2 stacked. I use the other slots for vang and cunningham which run aft but do not use the winch. Finally, the halyard needs to be turned outboard to the organizer. Easiest way is to install a deck mount, stand up block. You can find the hardware any place. I like Defender and Maori Pro Sailing. But...for everything but the winch, I'd recommend Garhauer Marine.

If you want to spend more, think about a self tailing winch and a rope clutch. Good luck.

 

[jssailem]

Tony
While enjoying a fellow SBO owners sailing video, ( here is his post... Stepping out for a coffee )

@garymalmgren had an image of his cockpit lines in the video of his sail. It is simply and effective at a moderate cost. His boat is a 25ft Canel sailboat. You could do something like this on your boat running the lines back between the companion way pop top and the hand rails.

As Joe suggested, using some small winches would help. Cleats are simple to use and less expensive than clutches. You can use a jam cleat like here in the image, or a cam cleat for lines you need to make frequent adjustments.

Simple is better on a boat.

 

[tonyr]

Thanks John and Joe for your great feedback, ideas, and for pointing me to some examples which led me to some other examples. One such example from @fudderrucker851 on youtube uses clutches without winches on his Sirius 21. I have asked and now I'm waiting for his answer on how the halyards are tensioned. If the answer seems reasonable then that might be the simplest solution. Maybe he uses the jib sheet winches. Not holding my breath though.

John, thanks for showing me the @garymalmgren solution. I might be wrong but it looks like that method requires a dedicated winch for each line. That would work for me because I'm only concerned about the mainsail. But I don't want to limit my options in case I want to add a line, as Joe suggested.

Thank you also for the list of fundamentals. Some of these were already swimming around in my head but your list rounds it out for me and I will keep them top of mind while planning this for my boat. And your reminder that I "still may have to get out of the cockpit and rush to the mast" is a point well taken.

Joe, the video you pointed linked from @Videomanjohn shows a very clean setup and I imagine when all is done mine will be similar to that. And thanks for the specifics on the parts. I will be searching all of these online in the next few weeks and looking for the best cost/performance combination. And I will be reaching out to @Videomanjohn too for some of his parts info.

Neither of you mentioned a downhaul line. But maybe I won't need it for the mainsail because I can reach and grab it from the cockpit.

Thanks guys sharing your valuable time to help me out.

Tony R
Sirius 21, #465, ynotsail

 

[jssailem]

it looks like that method requires a dedicated winch for each line.

NO. One winch for several lines. Yes he has an extra winch, but it is not necessary.

You need some way to hold each line in the cockpit.
Gary uses 2 Cleats and a "jamCleat".

This is a jam Cleat.

You could also use cam cleats.


Another alternative is the clutches. They come is several designs. Singles and groups.


Spinlock designed a new camcleat one that is easy to release. You pull up on the line and it releases.

Spinloock detail:
Fast precise control for hand tensioned lines
Roller action ensures easy release under high load
Hard anodised alloy cam and base
Ideal for high performance lines
Micro size for small diameters
Three stage release control switch
Ideal for single line spinnaker hoist systems
Resists accidental re-cleating

Many ways to manage your lines.

 

[dsims]

There is a guy in the Vandestadt & McGruer Sirius 21/22 Sailboat Owners Facebook group that has done just this. It is on my to-do list one of these days.

Vandestadt & McGruer Sirius 21/22 Sailboat Owners | New tiller extension, mast plate, halyards, forestay, boom hardware, deck sheaves and jammers makes for a really pleasant line layout and easy to adju... | Facebook

New tiller extension, mast plate, halyards, forestay, boom hardware, deck sheaves and jammers makes for a really pleasant line layout and easy to adjust boat! Valley 3D prints really helped me out...

www.facebook.com

 

[tonyr]

Thanks again for everyone's pics, ideas and suggestions. I am searching parts and pricing now, but I have a question about the blocks at base of mast.

For the halyards I picked a Harken #2636 40mm block with 485lb max working load, 1625lb breaking load. Do you think this is reasonable, or is it over/under rated for the jib and main halyards? I think my jib will give the highest load since it is not hanked on, but rather uses wire furling. I have no idea what the potential loads are.

Thanks

Tony R
Sirius 21, #465, ynotsail