Don; I tend to reef our C320 at about 12 - 14 knots. The traveller sheets are awkward to work with with just my wife and I on board; therefore, they remain mid position all the time. Is reefing sufficient, or should I find a way to use the traveller to reduce heel and spill some gusts ? Should the traveller be let out all the way in strong winds ?
- Status
I am not Don but
it depends on the wind speed and if you have a second reefing point. My wife doesn't like to work a traveller. She uncleats one side and the boom flies accross to the otherside with a boom. Oh course I yell at her and that is it for her helping. We need to send our wifes to sailing school to get educated.
it depends on the wind speed and if you have a second reefing point. My wife doesn't like to work a traveller. She uncleats one side and the boom flies accross to the otherside with a boom. Oh course I yell at her and that is it for her helping. We need to send our wifes to sailing school to get educated.
Traveller
The traveller is an intricate part of the sail set system. It has different locations for different wind conditions which will greatly improve the speed of the boat and assists to conrol heel. Perhaps the control line can be placed on a winch which will make it much easier to control. I recommend Don Guillette's Sail Trim Chart which might still be available from the Hunter Chandlery. Sometimes it's the guys who have to need to go to sailing school, Don! Sometimes they will even take the time to teach us wihout yelling. What a unique idea!!
The traveller is an intricate part of the sail set system. It has different locations for different wind conditions which will greatly improve the speed of the boat and assists to conrol heel. Perhaps the control line can be placed on a winch which will make it much easier to control. I recommend Don Guillette's Sail Trim Chart which might still be available from the Hunter Chandlery. Sometimes it's the guys who have to need to go to sailing school, Don! Sometimes they will even take the time to teach us wihout yelling. What a unique idea!!
The Traveller is your friend
The Traveller is the simplest way to adjust the power of your mainsail. Before we were taught the benefits of the traveller, we used to ease the mainsheet considerably when we felt overpowered. It worked, but then we lost sail trim, and it made for a lot more work on the sail trimmer. Easing the traveller to leeward can reduce the power and reduce the heeling. On especially windy days, dropping the traveller all the way to leeward has a dramatic effect, especially if you felt out of control. On light wind days, move the traveller to windward to increase the power of the mainsail. The use of the traveller is much easier and safer if you have line controlled cars on our traveller track. In fact, few people who have the "buttons" on their track ever adjust the traveller.
The Traveller is the simplest way to adjust the power of your mainsail. Before we were taught the benefits of the traveller, we used to ease the mainsheet considerably when we felt overpowered. It worked, but then we lost sail trim, and it made for a lot more work on the sail trimmer. Easing the traveller to leeward can reduce the power and reduce the heeling. On especially windy days, dropping the traveller all the way to leeward has a dramatic effect, especially if you felt out of control. On light wind days, move the traveller to windward to increase the power of the mainsail. The use of the traveller is much easier and safer if you have line controlled cars on our traveller track. In fact, few people who have the "buttons" on their track ever adjust the traveller.
Traveler
Remember that you still need to adjust the mainsail for the point of sail as well as the traveler. For example, in light winds you would move the traveler to weather and ease the mainsheet. In higher winds the traveler would be moved to the lee side and the mainsheet might be eased as well.
Remember that you still need to adjust the mainsail for the point of sail as well as the traveler. For example, in light winds you would move the traveler to weather and ease the mainsheet. In higher winds the traveler would be moved to the lee side and the mainsheet might be eased as well.
Traveler
Our old boat (O'Day 272LE) we had a pin type traveler which was a royal pain to adjust, and as a consequence I rarely adjusted with the traveler and spent most of the work on the main sheet. On our new, larger boat (Beneteau 323) we have a traveler with blocks and lines and it is a snap to adjust precisely for either myself or my wife, even with the much larger sail area. We have been using the traveler for almost all adjustments and it is an unbelieveable improvement. I would strongly recommend you look at your traveler setup and if it is possible to upgrade, consider it.
Our old boat (O'Day 272LE) we had a pin type traveler which was a royal pain to adjust, and as a consequence I rarely adjusted with the traveler and spent most of the work on the main sheet. On our new, larger boat (Beneteau 323) we have a traveler with blocks and lines and it is a snap to adjust precisely for either myself or my wife, even with the much larger sail area. We have been using the traveler for almost all adjustments and it is an unbelieveable improvement. I would strongly recommend you look at your traveler setup and if it is possible to upgrade, consider it.
Get the upgrade!
I agree with Ted. I had the old pin type traveler on my O'Day 302 that required physically wrestling with the contraption while precariously balancing yourself in the companionway. Then I called Guido at Garhauer Marine (they do lots of Catalina work) and he fixed me up with adjustable controls on each end of the traveler track. 4:1 sheeting and a simple flick of the wrists and the traveler moves easily. I use the traveler more than ever before. Get the upgrade -- it's the best money I've spent on the boat.
I agree with Ted. I had the old pin type traveler on my O'Day 302 that required physically wrestling with the contraption while precariously balancing yourself in the companionway. Then I called Guido at Garhauer Marine (they do lots of Catalina work) and he fixed me up with adjustable controls on each end of the traveler track. 4:1 sheeting and a simple flick of the wrists and the traveler moves easily. I use the traveler more than ever before. Get the upgrade -- it's the best money I've spent on the boat.
All of my old boats were equiped..........
.........end boom sheeting. With end boom sheeting the traveler has a much less pronounced effect. With my new to me Hunter 30 with mid boom sheeting I find that I'm using my traveler more than my mainsheet to attain my desired trim and to depower in gusts. In Lake Tahoe we have very quirky and high winds and we do a ton of sail handling. The traveler has indeed become my friend. 12-14 knots sounds a bit early for your boat to reef. Try using more halyard tension, outhaul tension and vang to get a nice flat main. Consider moving your jib leads back to depower your foresail. After that you can depower the main with your traveler. Once you feel overpowered after your traveler is fully eased, then pull in a reef. There are a lot of choices available to upgrade your system to make it more convienient to use. Tim
.........end boom sheeting. With end boom sheeting the traveler has a much less pronounced effect. With my new to me Hunter 30 with mid boom sheeting I find that I'm using my traveler more than my mainsheet to attain my desired trim and to depower in gusts. In Lake Tahoe we have very quirky and high winds and we do a ton of sail handling. The traveler has indeed become my friend. 12-14 knots sounds a bit early for your boat to reef. Try using more halyard tension, outhaul tension and vang to get a nice flat main. Consider moving your jib leads back to depower your foresail. After that you can depower the main with your traveler. Once you feel overpowered after your traveler is fully eased, then pull in a reef. There are a lot of choices available to upgrade your system to make it more convienient to use. Tim
something's wrong here.
Ron, You shouldn't need a reef on a 320 in 12-14 knots (unless, perhaps you are running a 155 genny, in which case, reduce it to about the equivilent of a 135). We have a 320 and it usually just my petite Admiral and me sailing together. even with the upgraded Garhauer traveler (which comes standard on the later 320 models) trimming the main can be a bit much in the puffs for a lightweight trimmer. The 320 balances nicely and if you have your sails set reasonably well, you should be able to lock the wheel long enough to adjust the traveler yourself if you don't have an A/P. If you are not comfortable with that, try luffing up just enough to take pressure off of the main and your wife should then be able to do it easily. Some 320 owners have added an outboard block to carry the traveler control lines outside of the dodger and back to a cam cleat on the cockpit coaming or to a block/cam cleat combo on the sternrail, in order to allow adjustment by the helmsman. I am not a sail trim expert by any means, but the following seems to work pretty well for me sailing a 320 upwind. We have a 135 on our 320 and at about 14+ knots, I will use the cunningham and outhaul to flatten the main a bit and depower it. At about 16+ knots, I ease the mainsheet a bit to get a bit more twist and let the top of the main spill. The traveler comes up a bit here to keep the main from luffing when close-hauled. The 320's geometry permitting sheeting the genny inboard of the lifelines calls for this. At 18 steady with puffs above, I reef. Above 22 the genney gets progressively smaller (we don't have a second reef). If you sail closehauled a lot with wind in the 20's, you would be well advised to consider a 'blade' (a high aspect 90-100% jib). It is certainly on my list of must-haves.
Ron, You shouldn't need a reef on a 320 in 12-14 knots (unless, perhaps you are running a 155 genny, in which case, reduce it to about the equivilent of a 135). We have a 320 and it usually just my petite Admiral and me sailing together. even with the upgraded Garhauer traveler (which comes standard on the later 320 models) trimming the main can be a bit much in the puffs for a lightweight trimmer. The 320 balances nicely and if you have your sails set reasonably well, you should be able to lock the wheel long enough to adjust the traveler yourself if you don't have an A/P. If you are not comfortable with that, try luffing up just enough to take pressure off of the main and your wife should then be able to do it easily. Some 320 owners have added an outboard block to carry the traveler control lines outside of the dodger and back to a cam cleat on the cockpit coaming or to a block/cam cleat combo on the sternrail, in order to allow adjustment by the helmsman. I am not a sail trim expert by any means, but the following seems to work pretty well for me sailing a 320 upwind. We have a 135 on our 320 and at about 14+ knots, I will use the cunningham and outhaul to flatten the main a bit and depower it. At about 16+ knots, I ease the mainsheet a bit to get a bit more twist and let the top of the main spill. The traveler comes up a bit here to keep the main from luffing when close-hauled. The 320's geometry permitting sheeting the genny inboard of the lifelines calls for this. At 18 steady with puffs above, I reef. Above 22 the genney gets progressively smaller (we don't have a second reef). If you sail closehauled a lot with wind in the 20's, you would be well advised to consider a 'blade' (a high aspect 90-100% jib). It is certainly on my list of must-haves.
thanks all
You have all made some good points. The traveller is rather new to me, as the boat I sailed for 10 years before that had a double sheeted main, rather than a traveller. Reefing was about the only option. The present arrangement is awkward working around the dodger. The furling jib is a 155%, so I do roll it in to about 135% after the 12 knot range.
You have all made some good points. The traveller is rather new to me, as the boat I sailed for 10 years before that had a double sheeted main, rather than a traveller. Reefing was about the only option. The present arrangement is awkward working around the dodger. The furling jib is a 155%, so I do roll it in to about 135% after the 12 knot range.
Traveler
Ron (Ottawa): I'll go into more detail on the traveler in the next message (I'm short on time and my wife is hounding me to get off the compuer) but I wanted to mention a couple of things quickly. First, your reefing too quickly. You might want to THINK about it (I did not say do it but start to think about it and prepare youself) when the wind starts hitting 15 to 18 knots. In the C30 National Regatta in Santa Cruz, Ca we sailed a C30 in 45 knots of wind with NO reef. I do not suggest mates try this as a matter of course but only to mention that it can be done. We did it beause we were fighting for 1st and the 3 or 4 boats behind us were not reefed plus our crew has a lot of sailing experience and that is the key factor as to how we pulled it off. In that race one boat was dismasted and two others lost their mainsails so don't mess with winds of those speeds unless you know what your doing. Secondly, the traveler is on of the most important sail trim controls for the mainsail and has to work efficiently. When I first bought my C30 the mainsheets were so full of friction they would not work. I had to push and pull the boom by hand. The boat also had a curved track traveler, which looks pretty but actually stink. I had to literally put my foot on the side of the cabin to make it work. Garhauer tried to rework the traveler blocks so I could get more mechanical advantage but the first time I tried it I was disatisfied and did what I should have done in the first place - replace the curve track with the Garhauer straight track traveler. If any of you are C30 owners with a curved track, dump it and get the Garhuer straight track traveler. Ron, I think you already have a straight track traveler so call Guido or Mark (don't talk to anyone else) about rebuilding your traveler. Be back tomorrow with some straight talk about the use of the traveler.
Ron (Ottawa): I'll go into more detail on the traveler in the next message (I'm short on time and my wife is hounding me to get off the compuer) but I wanted to mention a couple of things quickly. First, your reefing too quickly. You might want to THINK about it (I did not say do it but start to think about it and prepare youself) when the wind starts hitting 15 to 18 knots. In the C30 National Regatta in Santa Cruz, Ca we sailed a C30 in 45 knots of wind with NO reef. I do not suggest mates try this as a matter of course but only to mention that it can be done. We did it beause we were fighting for 1st and the 3 or 4 boats behind us were not reefed plus our crew has a lot of sailing experience and that is the key factor as to how we pulled it off. In that race one boat was dismasted and two others lost their mainsails so don't mess with winds of those speeds unless you know what your doing. Secondly, the traveler is on of the most important sail trim controls for the mainsail and has to work efficiently. When I first bought my C30 the mainsheets were so full of friction they would not work. I had to push and pull the boom by hand. The boat also had a curved track traveler, which looks pretty but actually stink. I had to literally put my foot on the side of the cabin to make it work. Garhauer tried to rework the traveler blocks so I could get more mechanical advantage but the first time I tried it I was disatisfied and did what I should have done in the first place - replace the curve track with the Garhauer straight track traveler. If any of you are C30 owners with a curved track, dump it and get the Garhuer straight track traveler. Ron, I think you already have a straight track traveler so call Guido or Mark (don't talk to anyone else) about rebuilding your traveler. Be back tomorrow with some straight talk about the use of the traveler.
Traveler
The traveler is a pretty simple control to understand in that it controls only one of the 4 elements of sail trim and that is ANGLE OF ATTACK. The other 3 elements are draft depth, draft position and twist. You have to understand these 4 elements completely or sail trim will never make any sense. As an example, if we were talking about the boom vang we would be discussing twist and draft position but with the traveler all you have to think about is angle of attack. One mistake a lot of sailors make is that they think that by moving the traveler that they are changing the shape of the sail. Moving the traveler does not change the shape of the sail. Think of your screen door with a pin in one corner that rides in a track. When you open and close te screen door does the shape of the scren change? Obviously, it doesn't and the same with the traveler. You could move the traveler car 3 boats over and the shape of the sail would remain the same. Now that we know how it works lets talk about how you use it. There are two controls for angle of attack. One is the traveler and the other is the mainsheet. The mainsheet also adjust twist and draft position so when you move it your changing those elements also. I assume everyone knows what angle of attack is. Simply put, say your closhauled and when you move the traveler up the faster you go and to slow down you drop the traveler to kill your speed. I see a lot of sailors, who when they are overpowered, the first thing they mess with is the mainsheet. The mainsheet is not the first control you use to kill speed or get the boat back on its feet- the traveler is. Try ths the next time your out. Sail closehauled and get the boat at top speed. Put some heel in her. Now don't touch anything but the traveler, Slowly move it down and watch the boat come back on its feet and start to slow down. Once you see this happen you can use the traveler as your accelerator. To speed up just crank it back up to an amount of heel and speed your comfortable with. As you'll see there is no need to touch the mainsheet, which will change the set of the sail. So Ron, get the blocks on that traveler fixed so it operates smoothly and start using that baby!!
The traveler is a pretty simple control to understand in that it controls only one of the 4 elements of sail trim and that is ANGLE OF ATTACK. The other 3 elements are draft depth, draft position and twist. You have to understand these 4 elements completely or sail trim will never make any sense. As an example, if we were talking about the boom vang we would be discussing twist and draft position but with the traveler all you have to think about is angle of attack. One mistake a lot of sailors make is that they think that by moving the traveler that they are changing the shape of the sail. Moving the traveler does not change the shape of the sail. Think of your screen door with a pin in one corner that rides in a track. When you open and close te screen door does the shape of the scren change? Obviously, it doesn't and the same with the traveler. You could move the traveler car 3 boats over and the shape of the sail would remain the same. Now that we know how it works lets talk about how you use it. There are two controls for angle of attack. One is the traveler and the other is the mainsheet. The mainsheet also adjust twist and draft position so when you move it your changing those elements also. I assume everyone knows what angle of attack is. Simply put, say your closhauled and when you move the traveler up the faster you go and to slow down you drop the traveler to kill your speed. I see a lot of sailors, who when they are overpowered, the first thing they mess with is the mainsheet. The mainsheet is not the first control you use to kill speed or get the boat back on its feet- the traveler is. Try ths the next time your out. Sail closehauled and get the boat at top speed. Put some heel in her. Now don't touch anything but the traveler, Slowly move it down and watch the boat come back on its feet and start to slow down. Once you see this happen you can use the traveler as your accelerator. To speed up just crank it back up to an amount of heel and speed your comfortable with. As you'll see there is no need to touch the mainsheet, which will change the set of the sail. So Ron, get the blocks on that traveler fixed so it operates smoothly and start using that baby!!
Thanks Don
Your explanations are great, Don. I am looking forward to trying out the new skills. Might as well let the boat perform to it's best, otherwise it's probably like driving a Corvette with flat tires
)
Your explanations are great, Don. I am looking forward to trying out the new skills. Might as well let the boat perform to it's best, otherwise it's probably like driving a Corvette with flat tires
)traveler
don, i think of it this way, and it has helped others. for a given wind speed, there is an optimum sail shape which is achieved by all the controls EXCEPT the traveler. once this shape is achieved think of the sail as RIGID and controlled by the traveler for speed, heeling, etc. of course, when the wind changes - and it will - the other contols need be re-adjusted.
don, i think of it this way, and it has helped others. for a given wind speed, there is an optimum sail shape which is achieved by all the controls EXCEPT the traveler. once this shape is achieved think of the sail as RIGID and controlled by the traveler for speed, heeling, etc. of course, when the wind changes - and it will - the other contols need be re-adjusted.
- Status