C22 Cockpit Drains

[JackHeaston]

Wanting to put cockpit drains in the transom of 1984 C22
Boat on its trailer a few hours away.
Does anyone know the thickness of the transom at the cockpit sole?
Any advice on what you used?
Forespar, Sea Dog, Moeller, etc?
Thanks for the help...

 

[AaronD]

My transom looks like ~1-7/8" thick (like all things boat-related, it's not straight in any direction, so it depends on where you measure it).

I used these: https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?14466



Note that because of the flanges and the need to screw them together, I had to mount them a bit above the cockpit sole. I believe the traditional solution is a flared copper tube, which would mount closer to the cockpit sole (and drain an extra inch or so of water). But from a quick glance at CD, maybe they've discontinued that product? Now they seem to carry these: https://www.catalinadirect.com/inde...som-drain-amp-plug-assembly-c-22-c-27span.htm. That last inch of water maybe isn't crucial anyway - you still have the forward drains; these are to quickly drain large amounts of water.

As you can see in my images, butyl tape probably wasn't the best sealant for screw-style scuppers; butyl really wants to be compressed straight in, and the screw-in fitting pulls it out of place. Maybe Boat-Life caulk would have been better.

 

[rpludwig]

Jack, I went thru this last spring, mine's an '84 as well....
as to the thickness there, don't know...three methods from my study/time on the forum:

1. Brass tube method from CD and others, requires a flanging tool, and allows you to get very close to the cockpit floor which is ideal.
2. Gene Neill's method, drill your holes close to the floor as possible, bed the transom core with epoxy, finish off inside and out, best method in my opinion, but quite labor intensive, messy, etc.
3. Marelon thru hull fittings, easiest, less messy, but not large openings as others, what I, clouddiver and others have done, sealed in 4200, you can't get 'em entirely on the floor due to the flange, but sufficient backup to the factory mess IMO, about an hour's work.

I'd guess the transom is about 1 1/2-2" thick, fiberglass/plywood/airspace/plywood/fiberglass.
Suggest you do a search for transom scuppers, Gene's are the cat's pajamas IMO, he'll post his sweet method w/pics, my lazy man's method is below:

 

[rpludwig]

note: Looks like AaronD and I posted similar methods with similar comments almost simultaneously!, look for the brass tube guys, and Gene's b4 you decide on your method....regardless, all perform, and a must do for a <86 model...my 2 cents...
(I'd seal off the innards with epoxy or at least 4200 to be prudent, nothing against butyl Aaron!)

 

[Gene Neill]

I don't know how much better my method really is than the ones above, but here are the pics. It's an '88 boat so the holes were already drilled. I wallowed out the inside some with a Dremel, slopped in the thickened epoxy, then rolled some fiberglass cloth into the hole. Let it cure, sanded it rather poorly, the sprayed some gel coat with a $5 Preval sprayer.

Honestly, on a pre-'86 boat with existing forward drains, I'd probably just drill a couple holes and use the same fittings Ron and Aaron did. Easy peasy.

The problem with post-'86 boats is, the existing holes were drilled so close to the floor that there was no room for a flange nut. On such boats I do recommend my method. It's really not that hard.

 

[Jacomo Sailor]

No need for this project to be expensive or complicated, you can add these great scuppers for about $2. My 84 already them installed when I got her and honestly it took me a while to even notice that it was a DIY project and what they are made of. 1-1/4" PVC schedule 40 couplings, 83 cents each at Home Depot. I like them better than just about any other option out there because they have a large opening, they are easy to install, you can get them almost flush with the cockpit sole and they look nice too. Installation is as simple as using the appropriate sized hole saw bit in a drill, then smear the insides with thickened epoxy and slide the coupling in place. They are a little bit longer than the thickness of the transom, so if you place them flush on the inside of the cockpit they will protrude from the transom about 3/8". This is nice because you don't end up with streaks and stains running down the transom.

 

[greg_m]

Just thought I would weigh in on this process as I did the whole gambit of lowering the cockpit sole to slope more towards the transom and then I did the built in style drains. Check out my thread, page 16 post #308.

Couple of notes from above posts. It has rained and I have used the hose to wash the boat off so I'm very happy with size and placement. As low down to the cockpit sole as possible. This of course does not matter if you still have the forward drains in place.

The advice above with the drains protruding out the rear face of the transom using a tube of sorts is sterling! I have already placed strips of self adhesive white vinyl sheeting that they use to wrap cars with below the drains in order to "protect" the paint from streaking.

 

[SV_GALATEIA]

Alright, I'll show my sailing nievity, where is all the water coming from that we need to be able to purge 50 gpm of water?

 

[JackHeaston]

Well....The response (much of which was same day) is very much appreciated. Thank you to those who replied. Not sure what Butler & Co was thinking with the miserable forward sloping cockpit, but I lack Greg's ambition to rework it as it should have been done in the beginning. Undecided as to which fix I'll pursue, but at least it won't be CD's brass tube and it's strong arm tactics on renting its flange tool. I see Lowell has recently removed it from their website.
Again, thanks to all of you. I am really quite pleased to be joining the Catalina 22 crowd.
Jack Heaston

 

[AaronD]

Alright, I'll show my sailing nievity, where is all the water coming from that we need to be able to purge 50 gpm of water?

Good question. I think there are two cases of interest here:
1) A wave over the stern. This should be (really) rare, but if it ever happens, I want the cockpit to drain quickly,
2) Plugged forward drains - our C-22 forward drains are pretty small and clog easily with debris from trees, etc. (of course, your crew would never track any gunk aboard or drop a wrapper; my crew might have been known to...) If the drains do clog, transom scuppers mean the cockpit won't fill and overflow into the cabin.

There might be other motivations, but those are the ones I know of.

 

[Gene Neill]

Alright, I'll show my sailing nievity, where is all the water coming from that we need to be able to purge 50 gpm of water?

The problem is, those forward drains clog if you look at them funny. Did you see @Doug Doty 's post from just a few days ago? Prime example: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/nearly-flooded-into-the-cabin.195667/

 

[Jacomo Sailor]

Alright, I'll show my sailing nievity, where is all the water coming from that we need to be able to purge 50 gpm of water?

I imagine you would take a pretty fair amount of water in the cockpit if you ever suffered a knockdown.

My biggest concern is being able to keep up with heavy rainfall. The factory drains clog very easily and even when they are clear they don't drain very fast (especially when the boat is on the water). I live in the midwest where we get a lot of thunderstorms and rain. I watched the cockpit in my old Clipper Marine fill nearly to the top while riding a severe storm out one night because the drain could not keep up. In fact her ultimate demise was a result of a clogged cockpit drain while in winter storage (aided by someone stealing the cinder block that was propping the trailer tongue up). This resulted in a filled cockpit that eventually flooded the cabin and ruined the interior. If Gypsy Soul hadn't come with the scuppers already installed, it would have been my first project. We had a rain event last October where we got 11 inches in a couple of days. There were periods of time where the rainfall rate exceeded 2 inches per hour. I slept very well that whole weekend and never had any worries about my cockpit flooding.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The advice above with the drains protruding out the rear face of the transom using a tube of sorts is sterling!

I've read all the Mainsheet magazines back to 1987, and IIRC the first time I saw this idea published was from the Catalina 42 skippers who used small clear plastic tubing for their Mark I gunwale drains. Sacrificial and easily replaced. Great idea, as long as it's long enough.

 

[greg_m]

Alright, I'll show my sailing nievity, where is all the water coming from that we need to be able to purge 50 gpm of water?

Hi there... as has been mentioned already it's not the water thats the issue ~ it's the debris that collects in the cockpit that blocks the drains that more of an issue. In my case a huge pine tree across the road that when the South Esater blows the tree thinks my boat is it's personal deposit box for pine needles! The tree is going nowhere and I'm not planning on moving until I need a wooden box to be moved into so I needed to sort something where the long pine needles would easily wash out of.

I also wanted to get rid of the holes in the bottom of the boat hull too! My boat had a hole for each side with no isolating valves present!

 

[rpludwig]

Hi there... as has been mentioned already it's not the water thats the issue ~ it's the debris that collects in the cockpit that blocks the drains that more of an issue. In my case a huge pine tree across the road that when the South Esater blows the tree thinks my boat is it's personal deposit box for pine needles!

+1 on the hard, in NC, once in slip, no issues...

 

[SV_GALATEIA]

I would like to take this moment to thank everyone who has contributed to:

ANOTHER BOAT PROJECT!

for me. My sailing season is only 4 1/2 months, then it Ice Age all over again.