I have heard various arguments for and against sailing by-the-lee and would welcome more input from forum members. Thoughts?
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John Dawson
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S. Sauer
Wing and Wing
There are times when you may need to run straight down wind, possibly for a short distance as thru a channel or a short section of winding river or running the last 100 yards to round a buoy when racing. Poling out the Genoa on a whisker pole opposite the main and letting out the main as far as possible may be just short of what you need. When the wind shifts a little more forward and may collapse the Genoa, you let it out a litle at a time and you may find yourself sailing 'by the lee'. It's a touchy point of sail trim and you'd better be paying attention, but it can actually be faster than having the Genoa blanketed by the main and collapsing.
There are times when you may need to run straight down wind, possibly for a short distance as thru a channel or a short section of winding river or running the last 100 yards to round a buoy when racing. Poling out the Genoa on a whisker pole opposite the main and letting out the main as far as possible may be just short of what you need. When the wind shifts a little more forward and may collapse the Genoa, you let it out a litle at a time and you may find yourself sailing 'by the lee'. It's a touchy point of sail trim and you'd better be paying attention, but it can actually be faster than having the Genoa blanketed by the main and collapsing.
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Bill Todd
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Rick Macdonald
Sailing by the lee is...
"When you are sailing with the wind blowing over the same side of your boat as the mainsail is being carried, you are sailing by the lee." Sailing by the lee is when the wind is somehwere between dead astern and that point at which an accidental gybe will occur. Think of a deep broad reach on a port tack. No problem. Now steer more and more downwind (to starboard) until you are on a dead run, wind coming directly over the stern, boom still out to starboard as far as it goes. Still no problem. But now, as you steer more to starboard, you are sailing by the lee. Keep going until the wind catches the back of the main and you have an accidental gybe. I admit it's happened to me, but only when I'm bobbing around in 1 knot winds, barely moving, and I'm not paying attention. The accidental gybe in this case is quite gentle, but wakes you up none-the-less!
"When you are sailing with the wind blowing over the same side of your boat as the mainsail is being carried, you are sailing by the lee." Sailing by the lee is when the wind is somehwere between dead astern and that point at which an accidental gybe will occur. Think of a deep broad reach on a port tack. No problem. Now steer more and more downwind (to starboard) until you are on a dead run, wind coming directly over the stern, boom still out to starboard as far as it goes. Still no problem. But now, as you steer more to starboard, you are sailing by the lee. Keep going until the wind catches the back of the main and you have an accidental gybe. I admit it's happened to me, but only when I'm bobbing around in 1 knot winds, barely moving, and I'm not paying attention. The accidental gybe in this case is quite gentle, but wakes you up none-the-less!
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Chris Burti
Let me add to Rick's comment.
Rick has accurately defined the term. i'd like to encourage you to learn how. I assume you already know how to accomplish a gybe safely. Always operate on the premise that anywhere within five degrees of dead downwind is a danger zone and particular care is required of all aboard. While in this zone, an accidental gybe can result from a moment's inattention. Also consider dead downwind as being the start of 'by the lee'. That said, in winds of less than ten knots, you can learn to sail by the lee safely. First, don't try it short handed until you know what you doing. Make sure that everyone on board is aware of the risks and paying attention. A flying boom can kill if makes contact with a skull or neck during an accidental gybe, even in lighter winds. Put a 'preventer' on the boom. In light winds, this can be accomplished by moving the lower end of your boom vang from the attachment near the mast base to an attachment on the windward (boom side) rail. This practice can result in a broken boom and may bring down your rig during an accidental gybe in a stiff breeze. The safer practice is for the preventer (same hardware as a boom vang, just more line) to be hooked to the end of the boom and to a solid, secure attachment as far outboard and just aft of the mast as possible. I've been sailing for over 35 years. IMHO, sailing by th lee in winds over 10 knots should be left to experienced racing crews that can afford to replace their rig at whim...but then, I'm not crewing with them as it's still too dangerous for me. I've seen one accidental gybe in 25 knot winds without a preventer and the unbelievable force and speed of the boom swinging over guarantees that I never want to see another. A knockdown caused by a 15 knot gybe, with a preventer, guarantees that I will never hear the end of it. (One hard and fast rule of the sea... never disturb the Admiral's equilibrium!!!) If you must sail directly downwind, drop your main. The extra knot of speed is rarely worth the hazard or angst unless it is for a short period of time and in light air. When sailing with the wind, it is my usual practice to sail about 15-20 degrees off the wind. It is usually faster and, around here, much cooler in the summer. If I am shorthanded (which is most of the time) I am more likely to do a '330' tacking back through the wind than a gybe. My philosophy is that the tack's lower probability of a screw-up mushrooming into a disaster makes me happier than the saved time a gybe engenders. Regards,
Rick has accurately defined the term. i'd like to encourage you to learn how. I assume you already know how to accomplish a gybe safely. Always operate on the premise that anywhere within five degrees of dead downwind is a danger zone and particular care is required of all aboard. While in this zone, an accidental gybe can result from a moment's inattention. Also consider dead downwind as being the start of 'by the lee'. That said, in winds of less than ten knots, you can learn to sail by the lee safely. First, don't try it short handed until you know what you doing. Make sure that everyone on board is aware of the risks and paying attention. A flying boom can kill if makes contact with a skull or neck during an accidental gybe, even in lighter winds. Put a 'preventer' on the boom. In light winds, this can be accomplished by moving the lower end of your boom vang from the attachment near the mast base to an attachment on the windward (boom side) rail. This practice can result in a broken boom and may bring down your rig during an accidental gybe in a stiff breeze. The safer practice is for the preventer (same hardware as a boom vang, just more line) to be hooked to the end of the boom and to a solid, secure attachment as far outboard and just aft of the mast as possible. I've been sailing for over 35 years. IMHO, sailing by th lee in winds over 10 knots should be left to experienced racing crews that can afford to replace their rig at whim...but then, I'm not crewing with them as it's still too dangerous for me. I've seen one accidental gybe in 25 knot winds without a preventer and the unbelievable force and speed of the boom swinging over guarantees that I never want to see another. A knockdown caused by a 15 knot gybe, with a preventer, guarantees that I will never hear the end of it. (One hard and fast rule of the sea... never disturb the Admiral's equilibrium!!!) If you must sail directly downwind, drop your main. The extra knot of speed is rarely worth the hazard or angst unless it is for a short period of time and in light air. When sailing with the wind, it is my usual practice to sail about 15-20 degrees off the wind. It is usually faster and, around here, much cooler in the summer. If I am shorthanded (which is most of the time) I am more likely to do a '330' tacking back through the wind than a gybe. My philosophy is that the tack's lower probability of a screw-up mushrooming into a disaster makes me happier than the saved time a gybe engenders. Regards,
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Don Guillette
Sailing by the lee, in my opinion is a very dangeous situation, unless you know exactly what you are doing. I almost "bought the farm" off of Pont Fermin in that situation. We were sailing down wind on a Newport 30 (Larry Watkins - if your reading this it was Tom Herons boat)in the Redondo Beach to Long Beach race. I was standing on the cockpit seat watching what was going on at the bow. Two guys were messing with the sail. The skippers girl friend was driving. I noticed she was stating to sail "by the lee" and I gently put my foot on the tiller to help her get back on course and then went back to watching the fore deck scene. For some unknow reason I stepped backwards about 1' foot and the next thing I saw was the boom flash across directly at my eye level. The driver had gotten off course again and the wind got behind the main and over it came. Had I been standing in the original position it would have cold conked me and put me over the side. From that day on I've never sailed without an inflatable life jacket.
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Alan
"By the lee"
do it all the time and it is faster than DDW (everything is). You do have to pay attention while driving and the crew must stay alert. We assign one man to stand on deck, back to the boom. If the jibe occurs he is the first to know, he sings out 'JIBE' and everyone knows to duck the boom. Can't rig a preventer while racing, it's slow and limits maneuvers espesially in close quarters.
do it all the time and it is faster than DDW (everything is). You do have to pay attention while driving and the crew must stay alert. We assign one man to stand on deck, back to the boom. If the jibe occurs he is the first to know, he sings out 'JIBE' and everyone knows to duck the boom. Can't rig a preventer while racing, it's slow and limits maneuvers espesially in close quarters.
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Don Guillette
Alan: The only thing (actually there are a few things)that scares me about an accidental jibe is the tremendous force it puts on equipment. In other words, when that boom slams across and comes to a stop on the other side it can tear the devil out of the traveler not with standing what it can do to any body parts it comes in contact with on the way across. Last year I was racing on a Catalina 30 and it was blowing like stink because of Santa Ana winds (high winds that blow in from the desert). I mentioned to the driver, who is the boat owner, to really watch the helm in the DDW situation. I think he got a little miffed at the suggestion and in stewing about it lost his concentration because 10 minutes later he got caught and the boom came flying over. The boat had the old style curved track traveler instead of the straight track Garhauer setup I prefer and when it came to a jolting stop it pulled the track and bolts out of the teak blocks!! He didn't say anything and neither did I but I'm sure he could read my mind. Maybe that's why he never asked me to crew for him again.
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Trevor - SailboatOwners.com
Changing conditions
Gang - Nice discussion. It probably goes without saying, but even a watchful course relative to wind angle downwind won't save you from an accidental gybe if the conditions are fluky and the wind shifts suddenly. It helps to have a hand ready on the mainsheet to bring in as much as you have time for as a gybe happens. Saves wear and tear on gear and crew! Trevor
Gang - Nice discussion. It probably goes without saying, but even a watchful course relative to wind angle downwind won't save you from an accidental gybe if the conditions are fluky and the wind shifts suddenly. It helps to have a hand ready on the mainsheet to bring in as much as you have time for as a gybe happens. Saves wear and tear on gear and crew! Trevor
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Alan
Why is sailing by the lee faster?
Sailing DDW is the slowest point of sail. Whether sailing by the lee or not its faster than dead down. When we are sailing by the lee its usually for tactical advantage. By the lee on stbd, you have rights over a boat sailing down on port. We don't however do this in heavy air. The risk of damage and injury is just too high. In moderate air(15-20) the mainsheet can be held to help cushion the movement of the traveller across the coachroof. Accidental jibes however, are costly in tme aswell so we take great care at the helm not to have them happen.
Sailing DDW is the slowest point of sail. Whether sailing by the lee or not its faster than dead down. When we are sailing by the lee its usually for tactical advantage. By the lee on stbd, you have rights over a boat sailing down on port. We don't however do this in heavy air. The risk of damage and injury is just too high. In moderate air(15-20) the mainsheet can be held to help cushion the movement of the traveller across the coachroof. Accidental jibes however, are costly in tme aswell so we take great care at the helm not to have them happen.
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joe
Question for Alan...
... I'm trying to understand the tactical advantage of sailing by the lee. I thought starboard rights were determined by wind direction over the boat, not sail position. Are starboard rights determined by which side of the mainsail the wind is on? What happens if you jibe the main to leeward and maintain the same course? Does that change the vessel's status?
... I'm trying to understand the tactical advantage of sailing by the lee. I thought starboard rights were determined by wind direction over the boat, not sail position. Are starboard rights determined by which side of the mainsail the wind is on? What happens if you jibe the main to leeward and maintain the same course? Does that change the vessel's status?
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Art
it all depends...
As has been stated, sailing by the lee can be hazardous to both crew and boat. That said, it is also an effective way to go downwind. DDW isn't the slowest point of sailon my boat (dead upwind is slower). But masthead rig boats can go DDW well in breeze and sailing by the lee is faster because the headsail or spinnaker isn't blanketed by the main. It's not a time for autopilot steeering and is made more risky in puffy conditions since wind shifts usually accompany the puffs. So invariably one jibe is "safer" than the other.
As has been stated, sailing by the lee can be hazardous to both crew and boat. That said, it is also an effective way to go downwind. DDW isn't the slowest point of sailon my boat (dead upwind is slower). But masthead rig boats can go DDW well in breeze and sailing by the lee is faster because the headsail or spinnaker isn't blanketed by the main. It's not a time for autopilot steeering and is made more risky in puffy conditions since wind shifts usually accompany the puffs. So invariably one jibe is "safer" than the other.
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Alan
OH Yes!!
Lets say 2 boats are sailing DDW. One on port (boom on right side) and the other on stbd (boom on left side). The boat on stdb tack has 'right of way' (stand on). The port tack boat must stay clear. If the stbd boat sails higher so that he is sailing by the lee, he is still on stbd tack. The wind does not determine the tack the boat is on the main does. The port tacker must still stay clear. If the main is jibbed (and the course remains the same), then both boats are on the same tack and the leeward boat has rights regardless of the course being sailed.
Lets say 2 boats are sailing DDW. One on port (boom on right side) and the other on stbd (boom on left side). The boat on stdb tack has 'right of way' (stand on). The port tack boat must stay clear. If the stbd boat sails higher so that he is sailing by the lee, he is still on stbd tack. The wind does not determine the tack the boat is on the main does. The port tacker must still stay clear. If the main is jibbed (and the course remains the same), then both boats are on the same tack and the leeward boat has rights regardless of the course being sailed.
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Alan
Art
Dead upwind isn't sailing, it's in irons. You are right about it being risky to sail by the lee, but there are times when it is faster and pays off in tactics and positioning.
Dead upwind isn't sailing, it's in irons. You are right about it being risky to sail by the lee, but there are times when it is faster and pays off in tactics and positioning.
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joe
Interesting, Alan....
... Then it's the position of the boom that determines which tack you're on. I was indeed a bit confused. In reference to your example: if the two boats were both on port, near dead downwind, would the windward boat's swinging the boom across (or heading up a bit) now give him right of way over the leeward boat?
... Then it's the position of the boom that determines which tack you're on. I was indeed a bit confused. In reference to your example: if the two boats were both on port, near dead downwind, would the windward boat's swinging the boom across (or heading up a bit) now give him right of way over the leeward boat?
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Clyde
Wind direction across the sailboat
Per the COLREG which side the wind is blowing across the sailboat determines the "Stand On" and "Give Way" vessels, not which side the boom is on. COLREG Rule 12 (a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows: i. when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other; ii. when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward; iii. if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other. (b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried. Fair Winds, Clyde
Per the COLREG which side the wind is blowing across the sailboat determines the "Stand On" and "Give Way" vessels, not which side the boom is on. COLREG Rule 12 (a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows: i. when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other; ii. when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward; iii. if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other. (b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried. Fair Winds, Clyde
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Chris Burti
Beg to disagree:0
The rule clearly states that the mainsail is the determining factor...not the actual wind. "For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried" There is an obvious good reason for this. You can't see the wind. The boom is the only clear visual clue an approaching skipper has to evaluate the respective responsibilities of the vessels. Additionaly any significant alteration of course to windward, while sailing by the lee, will result in a gybe. For collision avoidance, it is usually better to alter course without a tack or gybe unless other navigational obsticles dictate otherwise. so the rule makes common sense. Regards,
The rule clearly states that the mainsail is the determining factor...not the actual wind. "For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried" There is an obvious good reason for this. You can't see the wind. The boom is the only clear visual clue an approaching skipper has to evaluate the respective responsibilities of the vessels. Additionaly any significant alteration of course to windward, while sailing by the lee, will result in a gybe. For collision avoidance, it is usually better to alter course without a tack or gybe unless other navigational obsticles dictate otherwise. so the rule makes common sense. Regards,
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Alan
Chris has it exactly right.
The mainsail is the determining factor as to what tack is being sailed. Joe, In answer to your question about the two boats on port tack. When the stbd tacker (who is sailing by the lee) jibes his main, he becomes the windward boat and must keep clear. This is one of the advantages of sailing by the lee on stbd.
The mainsail is the determining factor as to what tack is being sailed. Joe, In answer to your question about the two boats on port tack. When the stbd tacker (who is sailing by the lee) jibes his main, he becomes the windward boat and must keep clear. This is one of the advantages of sailing by the lee on stbd.
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joe
Okay, I haven't described..
... the scenario very well. I think I need drawings. The gyst of my question is whether a boat that is chasing another, while sailing downwind, could gain an advantage by flipping the boom across, i.e. sail by the lee. In this case the following boat is the windward vessel, correct?, does the port/starboard tack have precedent over the windward/leeward convention? Hope I'm not beating this to death, but I do appreciate your efforts to enlighten this poor soul. Please no colregs quotes.... just your thoughts.
... the scenario very well. I think I need drawings. The gyst of my question is whether a boat that is chasing another, while sailing downwind, could gain an advantage by flipping the boom across, i.e. sail by the lee. In this case the following boat is the windward vessel, correct?, does the port/starboard tack have precedent over the windward/leeward convention? Hope I'm not beating this to death, but I do appreciate your efforts to enlighten this poor soul. Please no colregs quotes.... just your thoughts.
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