If oars are not, it’s beyond belief that sails (that do not move to generate propulsion) would.
It’s like the lawmakers who wrote that did not know that sailboats exist.
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BWI laws
- Thread starter Jackdaw
- Start date
It’s like the lawmakers who wrote that did not know that sailboats exist.
Depends on the officer. I got four tickets while at anchor in Fort Lauderdale on different days. They said that with the keys in the boat I could just pull the anchor and start the boat to motor away. I was just harassment, they didn't want me there. I also received a safety check every day and once two times a day. Also got two tickets for illegal discharge even though I have a porta potty. Again they said I could dump it overboard any time I wanted. All charges were dropped
Same with me years ago. A few pops while cruising. Now strict policy. No alcohol until done boating for the day, at a mooring or anchor etc.
I just read through this entire discussion and don't have the answers to the originally posed question(s), which I think are excellent. Sure... there's some GREAT ADVICE mostly amounting to "Just be extra careful and respectful and they probably won't cite you", which has been my (successful) experience in the past, but I still want to know exactly what does "operate or be in physical control" mean, and what does "motorboat" mean in this context. Lots of good guesses, but it still seems very open to interpretation. If my boat hasn't left its mooring in two weeks, am I operating it? How about if the engine is running at the mooring to charge up the batteries while a family of 4 is in the cabin eating dinner? Which person aboard (if any) is the operator? How about if I'm operating the chartplotter or operating the windlass, but not operating the engine? It is nice, and probably pretty accurate to think that unless you're causing trouble, they probably won't bother you for it. My father-in-law was once solo sailing (while living aboard) and the coast guard pulled up alongside to do a random check of his vessel. He was not under the influence of anything, and was sailing competently and safely at the time. When they said they'd like to come aboard he pointed out (half-jokingly) how much power the Coast Guard has compared with other police and military officers since this was his house, and that the U.S. Constitution required probable cause and a warrant and protected him against unlawful search and seizure. The officer didn't find his observation amusing AT ALL, and angrily proceeded to board the boat, and did an exhaustively detailed investigation of every inch of the boat emptying every object out of every locker, looking for potential citations... and he received many... one for having a head-overboard valve that was set (and latched) to pump into a holding tank, but the latching in that position was deemed inadequate... one for his "Discharge of oil prohibited" placard being obstructed from view behind something... the list went on and on, and the fines were many, many hundreds of dollars... none of which I would consider "reasonable" attempts to keep him or anyone else safe. The vast majority of people ARE what I would consider reasonable, but there are people out there who will try to enforce rules and regulations to the exact letter, and for that reason, the exact letter needs to be very clear... even if that exact letter is that it is up to the judgement of someone... just be clear about it. Personally, my own habits are to drink nothing while underway, and even non-sailing guests drink only in moderation. Even at my mooring I doubt I've ever exceeded the legal limit... though I have occasionally had a couple beers on a hot summer evening when socializing with friends. That's with a cold engine with no key in my pocket... but it does make me wonder whether at any time I'm legally responsible for keeping myself (or all adults on board?) sober at all times... especially if "operating" is operating the fridge, or operating the chartplotter, or the alternator via the engine while docked or moored or anchored. It seems like they've just applied rules for cars to the boating world without really considering how different a sailing yacht (or other boat) is from a car. Nearly every minute in my car is moving and with the engine running and with exactly one driver. The vast majority of time on my boat is spent tied to a mooring or anchor, and with no propulsion and when it is being operated, the "operator" often changes at a moment's notice, and without stopping the vehicle.
@ToddS
This is not an answer to your question because I don't think anyone knows the answer but I can posit this suggestion.... in today's world we all have cell phones. If you get boarded hit the record button on your phone just in case it goes sideways and you end up contesting something in court. It does not have to be an officer's word against yours anymore.
This is not an answer to your question because I don't think anyone knows the answer but I can posit this suggestion.... in today's world we all have cell phones. If you get boarded hit the record button on your phone just in case it goes sideways and you end up contesting something in court. It does not have to be an officer's word against yours anymore.
Up here they get around that by defining a "vessel" and not by the means or propulsion.
The boyfriend, David Sillars, was charged with the impaired operation of a vessel causing death. It's the first time in Canadian history that charges of impaired operation of a vessel applied to a canoe have been upheld in court.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ontario-canoes-1.4914205
Goes to show that if "the Man" wants to harass you, he's gonna do it - Might makes Right. Right now, I'm sitting in my home office, but I have the combination to my boat and access to a liquor store. I could cause all sorts of mayhem if I were to drive over there, drink like a fish, and start ramming vessels in the waterway. As the locksmith told the cop when he was arrested for possessing burglary tools, "might as well arrest me for rape, as I've got those tools too."
I have been sailing on Lake Michigan (south of Chicago...in Indiana) for 10 years. I have never been boarded, hardly even see a CG or Police boat, or any boat for that matter.
I am more worried that if I needed the CG, they would be too far away to do any good.
The CG Auxiliary guys have a boat at our marina. I asked them for a courtesy inspection, since I haven’t had the pleasure of being inspected...but even they failed to show up. Oh well, maybe being left alone isn’t so bad ;-)
I am going with the “this isn’t a motor boat defense”. Insurance companies allow racing on a sailboat, but not motor boats....sailboats must be much safer !
Greg
No, they are not. But if your sailboat has a motor, it's a motorboat.
I don't want to jinx myself but in all the years I have been sailing I have never been or knew of anyone in my world who has ever been stopped by a LEO while sailing. I have seen countless stops with powerboats and I have gotten the stink eye from LEOs while in my powerboat, fully expecting to be stopped. It all comes down to " how much damage can you do at 6 mph?"
I have not seen a sailboat stopped at our lake in the 40 years I have sailed there. I think the general consensus of the LEO's on the water is that it's easy to stop and frisk the powerboaters while it's much more of a PITA to stop the sailboat, come along side and board if necessary.
I think the police (Law Enforcement Officers...LEO’s) spend a lot of time in and around the Chicago harbors and water ways...I hear Lots of requests to stop a speeding motor boat or drunk operator on the VHF. All pretty quiet south 20 miles in Indiana. I go out often when I don’t see another boat of any kind. Pretty amazing really, considering how close to Chicago I am (and there are 2 Marinas within 10-15 miles from me.
Greg
Greg
I never drink alcohol when sailing, I need the little sense god gave me to properly sail. Hence no worry about being boarded. In all my years of sailing i have been boarded twice. The first time was in 1990 in Oyster bay sailing a boat i leased for a year (29 foot Jeanneau). It was Oyster festival and the harbor was crowded. I was sailing under main only because of the crowds when the local Cop demands that i drop my sails and be boarded. Seems the boat was Documented but not registered in NY. Once on board and the details of my use of the boat was settled, i got a ticket for what the registration would have cost. Later on shore i ran into the Cop and he looked fearful until I asked him if I could buy him some oysters. I guess some people get angry if they get a ticket they deserve. All was good and we had a laugh about his fear. As I said to him "You have the gun!"
Second time was Labor day motoring down the Hudson River after having sailed north on the rare south wind. the river is too narrow and the current wrong to be sailing back. A Coast Guard Cutter had a Zodiac patrolling ahead of it just north of the Bear mountain Bridge. They came aside and followed me for about 5 minutes until they finally asked permission to board. Granted they came aboard and asked for my registration and to show my safety equipment. We went through a check list they had and on completion they congratulated me on having a very safe boat. They then asked me if I would mind motoring with me a while as the Cutter was hot and uncomfortable compared to motoring in a 23.5 foot sail boat. they stayed aboard for about 10 minutes until their captain called them to return to the zodiac. The young men were very professional and at no time ever seemed threatening. Considering the number of drunk powerboat operators I encounter on the River, usually speeding past too close setting up humongous wakes that stop my boat dead, I appreciate any LEO activity that makes my day safer. And they called me Captain.
Second time was Labor day motoring down the Hudson River after having sailed north on the rare south wind. the river is too narrow and the current wrong to be sailing back. A Coast Guard Cutter had a Zodiac patrolling ahead of it just north of the Bear mountain Bridge. They came aside and followed me for about 5 minutes until they finally asked permission to board. Granted they came aboard and asked for my registration and to show my safety equipment. We went through a check list they had and on completion they congratulated me on having a very safe boat. They then asked me if I would mind motoring with me a while as the Cutter was hot and uncomfortable compared to motoring in a 23.5 foot sail boat. they stayed aboard for about 10 minutes until their captain called them to return to the zodiac. The young men were very professional and at no time ever seemed threatening. Considering the number of drunk powerboat operators I encounter on the River, usually speeding past too close setting up humongous wakes that stop my boat dead, I appreciate any LEO activity that makes my day safer. And they called me Captain.
