Buying a Hunter has been a frustrating experience

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Greg Stebbins

Hey, Dave (Crazy?....Maybe!)

Dave, It sounds like you’re doing a re-build on every new 240/260 before turning it over to your customer. You really should ask yourself why you are doing these things repeatedly, which should have been done at the factory. I think that Hunter Marine may be a very ordinary low-end manufacturer that lucked into some very fine people. Dave, you would do well whereever you found yourself. And if you didn’t insist on working out of the uncivilized East, I’d buy a boat from you, even a new Hunter.
 
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Been there

Jim, Patrick

Jim, hearing about your problems with Nor'sea does not cheer us up. There is no joy in hearing that another sailor had even worse problems with their new boat. Patrick, the people responsible have to be the management at Hunter. Quality in production line manufacturing comes from putting in place a process that no one or two individuals should be able to disrupt by their screwing up. Management can't pass the blame -- legally or morally -- onto dissatisfied, undertrained, or unmotivated workers. The buck stops at the top. Really.
 
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Paul Akers

My 2 cents

I've been following this thread since its inception and have declined to participate until now. Only one person has commented about an individual being responsible. I do understand and agree that the corporation retains ultimate responsibility. In a manufacturing assembly process, the person doing the step or the person next in the assembly line does many of the QC steps during assembly. An individual signs off each step as it is completed. Occasionally, as in cars, a completed model will be taken randomly from the line and "torn apart" for a complete inspection. This is done to control costs as well as to conduct additional quality control. Now, I don't know if Hunter employs this method, but they do have proven steps/processes that are and have been successful. I feel that the hack job shown in the pictures may have been covered up by the individual(s) who did it and they are the ones who should be reprimanded for it. I don't know if they can be held personally responsible for it. But Hunter sports a black eye because of it and it should be their ultimate responsibility to make good for it. There have been hundreds of individual posts on this site over the years about Hunter's good (and sometimes not so good) quality and service, so let's not forget that either. Hunter has not responded to this publicly on this forum (company policy?) but I fervently feel, based upon past postings, that Hunter will step in and resolve this situation.
 
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Brian O'Neill

Get an extended transferrable warranty

Hunter certainly has put you through the ringer on this one. I would suggest that you tell Hunter to grant you, at no cost, a significant increase in your current warranty (transferrable of course) in terms of items covered and length of time covered. This will protect you from the items yet to be discovered that are faulty as well as increase the value of your boat should you resell it within the extended warranty period. This will allow Hunter to save some face, as it were, by saying they will stand behind you and their boat well into the future. O'Neill
 
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terry dornan

Hunter is not a Micky D's

No excuse for shipping a poor quality product. Hopefully Hunter may understand the true management problem indicated by the description of the day Bernie went to pick up his new Boat. The boat was not ready- understand this is a fabrication facility, it is not a fast food restaurant. When production problems happen, and they always do, the average middle management staff is used to hearing the lost time, loosing money, lost production and other "attitude incentive packages" typically delivered by the upper management of the organization. I have purchased a lot of custom fabrication, and have found that _FOOT TAPPING_ in the front office gets me the worst possible product. Never kid yourself that the management of a sales driven organization, has a clue about the manufacturing methods and requirements it takes to get a product out the door. Sounds a lot like the stories of American car production in the 70's - good market = stressed production management. Lets not be so quick to decide that some new employee made this problem, new employees have the most incentive to do the best possible job. This is so typical of a spreadsheet driven profit per unit mentality, when production supervision lacks the control to override the production schedule the errors and poor workmanship become evident. All of the complaints that Bernie mentioned are items that intermediate quality inspections would have eliminated. While I doubt that Hunter uses a point to point sign off, I would expect that intermediate inspections are made and designed in the process to allow corrections to be made at the least cost to production. The president of Hunter said it all, when he stopped to apologize to Bernie. He allowed his organization to engage in the use of outside fabrications, likely due to production demands, without the methods in place to assure his quality of his product is maintained. Without a doubt he was and knows this is his fault, and I am sure Hunter will be an improved organization for it. The General feeling of this thread is to agree that the ultimate responsibility is the upper management of Hunter, but it is so easy to understand that it is not really their fault. I mean they can't be everywhere, some middle management personnel or lowly production worker must be at fault. This is just another example of how bad American workmanship has become - NOT- Nobody, not the president, not the sales department, not the quality control department, not the production department nobody anywhere wants to do a bad job. I think that if I were Bernie I would put that boat on the trailer, drive it down to the factory and let them fix it. Nothing has more impact the returned product of this magnitude. I doubt that anyone in planning has a slot on there spreadsheet for "boats returned to factory". Two things that he would achieve by this: 1_I am sure hunter would go through that boat in such a fashion that we will all know that hull # &^%&^ is the best 26 Hunter ever released from the factory, instead of one to be avoided. 2_He could proudly sail one of the hunters that made all the other Hunters better
 
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Gary Barker

Response from Bernie's Dealer

After having read many of the responses to Bernie's article, I would like to point out some facts: We have been Hunter dealers many years and this is the first boat we have encountered with a defect in this area. I was with Bernie for the "maiden voyage" and I removed the rub rail and found the open seam at the launching ramp. I was going to have our service department meet me there to try to repair the boat on the spot, but as we removed more of the rail, I advised bernie that the repair would have to be done at our shop. We brought the boat back and immediately emailed photos of the problem to Greg at Hunter. I told Bernie that I thought the problem area could be safely repaired and we discussed the methods that would be used, and I assured him that both Hunter and our dealership would stand behind the product 100%. I contacted the factory first thing Monday AM and discussed the situation with Greg Emerson and Eddie Breeden in customer service and they of course agreed to any repairs necessary to resolve the problem. If I, the dealer, or Hunter had refused to handle the problem in a timely fashion, then there would be a reason for a lawsuit, but that is not the case. If the boat were not structurally sound or could not be repaired, then I would demand that Hunter replace the boat, but that is not the case. I regret that any one who has purchased a Hunter product has had problems with it, and I also regret that dealers who do not stand behind the procuct give all of us a bad reputation. Potential boat buyers should not be afraid to purchase a Hunter product, but should buy from a dealer that will service the product after the sale. It is maost important for Hunter to use the information gathered from this experience to improve their manufacturing and inspection processes. This will improve customer satisfaction and owner loyalty as well as reduce the cost of warranty service. Gary Barker
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,923
- - Bainbridge Island
Thanks to you, Bernie

While the situation is both regrettable and serious, I applaud you for bringing it to light here. The discussion was good and I'm sure there has been valuable input for Hunter. I, for one, have learned a lot about manufacturing QC reading all these posts by owners in the biz. While I have seen Hunter make improvements in their boats during the span of production, your question about a database of warranty issues is a good one. I'll try to find out what I can about that. And to all either directly or peripherally involved in this incident, please post follow-up news as it happens. Thanks!
 
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Eric

Cup Holders

Can anybody tell me how many cup holders on board a 260 will create poistive flotation? Thanks
 
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Gary Bridi

Your 2 cents + mine

Hunter will make good? I certainly hope so, aince there is not a more perfect way to get a huge amoumnt of bad press. As the net expands, many potential buyers will visit this site. Listening Hunter???
 
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Mike Pajewski

I'll bet you work at INPO

Bernie, Judging by your post, do you perhaps work at INPO? Mike Pajewski H26 "Loon" Point Beach
 
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Tim P

Thank You

As a serious, prospective h260 owner I want to thank all of you for your blunt and honest commentary regarding the quality of Hunter products. I spent the last several days reading owners reviews and otherwise researching the boat. I had pretty much decided it was the right boat for our family and was thrilled to find out about the "freebies" promotion Hunter is currently offering. I came in this morning fully prepared to arrange my financing and I happened upon this forum and Bernie LaScala's poignant story. Needless to say I'm having second thoughts and more. Most of the posts to this site are from current Hunter owners. Perhaps Hunter needs to understand that prospective customers (like myself)also utilize this site and the bad publicity is having a real impact. Has the company responded to the post? I haven't seen it. One last comment: Hunter bills itself as an employee owned and operated company which I considered a plus. Now I'm to understand that some apparently critical parts of the manufacturing process are outsourced. Can anyone tell me the extent to which assembly of h260 is outsourced? Is this unique to the h260 or is the same true of all Hunter boats?
 
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Bryan C.

Hunter responses

Whether Hunter monitors this Board or not (I would think so), I would not take it as a negative indication that they do not make "official" posts. Private communications are one thing -- "official" public statements are another and would potentially create legal and public relations nightmares. If you call Hunter with a problem and someone tells you something that turns out to be incorrect or misundertood, you may have a lawsuit -- if someone from Hunter makes an "official" statement on a BB like this, they might have a class action. Or create unintended express or implied warranties. As a lawyer I would certain advise them not to do it. That's why this is an "unofficial" site; Hunter has its own Board were you can read their official statements (snore). While all companies make public announcements, there is a reason they do so carefully. It might be nice to live in a less litigious atmosphere, but then we'd have to give up the right to sue when someone gives us incorrect information (which is what disclaimers like the ones on this Board are supposed to do). The HOW was lucky enough to have a (former) Hunter employee (Jim Bohart) participate on this Board in an individual capacity and not as an official Hunter representative. He was a tremendous source of valuable information but was eventually discouraged by getting flamed every time someone wasn't satisfied with the result -- he ended up being a customer complaints rep half the time. I was sad to see him go and I understand he left Hunter to work for a Hunter dealer in California.
 
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Eric Lorgus

The perils of subcontracting

Here's part of Bernie's original post: "Even the president of the company came over and introduced himself, apologizing for all the delays, but stating that Hunter wanted to make sure the boat was up to their standards since they had subcontracted some of the 260 building outside and it did not work out very well." I'd count myself as a satisfied Hunter owner, although my boat is 13 years old. As disturbing as this incident is, it may be that Hunter's use of subcontractors is the problem, not that Hunter's own workers have become careless. Even so, I hope all of these posts are read by the President of Hunter, as a company's reputation is a valuable thing.
 
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Bernie LaScala

Response to Mike Pajewski

I have worked at INPO since 1980 and I assume you work at the Point Beach plant. Bernie
 
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Richard Gottlieb

The risks and rewards of candor

I strongly disagree with the posting of Bryan C. from Miami. I too am a lawyer and an owner of a brand new 2000 Hunter 270. Whether it is "risky" to be honest with one's customers for fear of lawsuits is completely beside the point being made here. Indeed, you may recall that when Johnson & Johnson faced a similar debaucle related to Tylenol many years ago, it did not try to cover up the problem because of fears of lawsuits even though it had much greater reason to than Hunter does in this circumstance. No, in this case, I am genuinely chagrined that no one from Hunter has responded to this issue on this web site. If Hunter wants to maintain its well-advertised promise that it "Goes the Distance" NOW is the time for it to do so and allay the concerns of its present and future customers. To do otherwise is not only cowardly, its very bad business.
 
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Greg Stebbins

Bernie LaScala , If you wouldn't mind,

I for one would really like to see an "after" picture or two of the same location under the rub rail posted for comparison. Greg
 
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Bernie LaScala

Response to Greg

Greg, The dealer has taken off the entire rub rail and is working on the boat. Since I really need to have it by Wednesday, he is concentrating on making it seaworthy and temporarily installing the rub rail again. We are having a bridal shower for my son's fiancee' (another lawyer) and I have promised several of our out of town guests that I would take them sailing. When we are finished next weekend, the dealer is going to take the boat back from the marina where I will be keeping it and make permanent repairs. When they make the permanent repair I'll ask Gary to take a picture of the same area as you requested. Incidentally, I have heard that Hunter has been removing the rub rails and checking the work on every boat still at the factory and will be requesting dealers to do the same on certain boats. Contrary to what I think Eric was implying, Hunter has offered nothing to me except absolute committment to properly repair my boat. From what I hear, they are taking this episode to heart and using it in a positive way to improve. I have no doubt that everything will work out for both Hunter and us owners in the future. If this reply is somewhat messed up. I apologize. I am in New York using a friend's computer that has the oldest version of AOL I have ever seen and the slowest computer and modem that I have used in years.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Bernie

Bernie: One think that I still do not understand (dumb guy on left coast). If the rub rail is the problem why was the boat taking on water while just floating. I could understand if you were heald over on a tack. Please explain. It sounds like you are satisfied with the progress so far. If you are happy then everyone should be happy. Good luck in your saga.
 
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Jon Bastien

Steve, I can answer that...

The hull/deck joint (and associated rub-rail) come right down to the waterline in the 'sugar-scoop' style stern swim platform area of the 260. If you look at the photos Bernie posted to the Photo Forum, you'll see that the area he photographed includes the _bottom_ of the motor mount, and the rub rail continues further down towards the waterline. It would not surprise me if this joint on all the 240/260's is constantly getting hit with water (waves, wakes, etc). Perhaps you 240/260 owners out there ought to consider checking this area for deterioration/leaks during your annual commissioning process? --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' H25 'Adagio'
 
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