Hello All, This is a follow-up to a thread I started last December about doing business with The Canvas Store in Huntington, NY. You can find it in the archives if you search the phrase "buyer beware". After 15 months of trying to get The Canvas Store to work with me on getting the winter cover they sold to me to fit my boat, I gave up because they simply wouldn't admit there was anything wrong with it. I filed a small claim action in New York against them, and on Aug 7th I won my case. The owner of The Canvas Store finally admitted in court that the cover did not fit and that it was unfortunate that my case had somehow "slipped through the cracks" in his shop. Ironically, in December he promised me he would refund my money if the cover didn't fit a B-321 near his shop. I'm still wondering why he didn't refund my money when he found that out, and instead made me fly to New York to pursue the court claim. As of Sept 13th, 2006, The Canvas Store is now in default for the judgment ($1406 + about $220 in interest & fees the court awarded). They have not paid me nor made any attempt to arrange payment. I am now going to have to file for more action with the Sheriff's office to attempt to recover my claim. You can see a more complete story with pictures of my cover using the link below, but the bottom line is this: - I paid them $1406 and they shipped defective merchandise (the court's term). - They had the cover from June ’05 to Dec. ’05 and Feb. ’06 until the present. I do not have the merchandise. They still have my money. - They denied the merchandise was defective for 15 months and refused to work amicably with me to correct it, forcing me to file a lawsuit. - They finally admitted in court that the merchandise was defective, lost the claim, and now refuse to comply with the court judgment. I'll let you folks be the judge as to whether you want to do business with this company. If you do, I'll give you some advice: 1) Buy with a credit card that has a buyer protection plan, and insist on a refund within the plan's time period if the product is defective. I took their word that they'd take care of the problem and my time period for protection ran out. Let the credit card company deal with the seller, they have much more clout. 2) Take before and after pictures of your boat and the product on your boat. 3) Keep a log of every contact you have with them, you may need it in the future. 4) Don't believe any promise made to you by them, get it in writing and make sure the meaning is clear. His promise to refund my money if the cover didn't fit somehow morphed into "100% FIT satisfaction" which meant he wanted to provide me with an altered cover. I don't need it now, and I wouldn't want their product on my boat. 5) Don't be afraid to take 'em to court! I invite The Canvas Store owner to respond in this thread to the following: 1) Please explain why the front of the main section angles forward, and how that is supposed to line up with my aft-swept stays? You admitted in court the width was too wide, so that's a given. 2) Why didn't you ever call me in the summer of 2005 when the pictures I gave you clearly showed the cover wasn't fitting properly? 3) Why didn't you refund my money as promised when you realized the cover didn't fit, sometime between March '06 and Aug '06? 4) Why haven't you complied with the award to plaintiff from the Third District Court in Huntington NY, Suffolk County? Fair winds all.... ~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Clarification
The court's term for the defective merchandise was 'non-conforming goods', I stand corrected on that item. Tim
The court's term for the defective merchandise was 'non-conforming goods', I stand corrected on that item. Tim
Thanks for this post
I remember the original post and am glad to see this follow-up. I think you are right to be taking the legal actions you are taking -- and having the grief and expense of it. Hope you get your money back. I, for one, would like to see more posts like this. I would also like to see posts of people who had good experiences with boat service providers, too.
I remember the original post and am glad to see this follow-up. I think you are right to be taking the legal actions you are taking -- and having the grief and expense of it. Hope you get your money back. I, for one, would like to see more posts like this. I would also like to see posts of people who had good experiences with boat service providers, too.
Helpful
Thanks for the warning. I also like to see posts that detail folks' experience with various vendors, both good and bad. Fortunately, my experiences with major purchases for my boat have been very good, and I have written in to this site giving my vendors their due credit. Seeing the flip side here is a grim reminder that we all have to be careful. When I was looking for a sailmaker, I asked around about someone I was considering using. I had used him for some minor repair work in the past, but wanted to hear from someone who had bought new sails from him. I got two glowing recommendations from my dockmates on his services, so I went with him and was very pleased. Based on the fact that you provided pictures from other boats in your area that had also used the Canvas Store, I'm guessing you did something similar before ordering. I don't know what else you could have done except maybe contact the Better Business Bureau or the state Dept. of Consumer Affairs to see if there were any outstanding complaints against them.
Thanks for the warning. I also like to see posts that detail folks' experience with various vendors, both good and bad. Fortunately, my experiences with major purchases for my boat have been very good, and I have written in to this site giving my vendors their due credit. Seeing the flip side here is a grim reminder that we all have to be careful. When I was looking for a sailmaker, I asked around about someone I was considering using. I had used him for some minor repair work in the past, but wanted to hear from someone who had bought new sails from him. I got two glowing recommendations from my dockmates on his services, so I went with him and was very pleased. Based on the fact that you provided pictures from other boats in your area that had also used the Canvas Store, I'm guessing you did something similar before ordering. I don't know what else you could have done except maybe contact the Better Business Bureau or the state Dept. of Consumer Affairs to see if there were any outstanding complaints against them.
Perfect timing!
Perfect timing Tim! I literally received an email response from TCS just five minutes before seeing your posting. They were responding to an information request of mine from the day before and I was ready to pursue an order for a dodger! I understand that that everyone has experienced poor service at one time or another and that every business is not perfect. Your story however, illustrates a situation well beyond the normal "we screwed up so let's take care of it right away" scenario. Any reputable company will seek all avenues to address the issue versus going to court. Win or lose, bad publicity is the worst kind of publicity. Thank you for your posting Tim. I will be seeking other means of securing a new dodger for my Catalina! Any recommendations?
Perfect timing Tim! I literally received an email response from TCS just five minutes before seeing your posting. They were responding to an information request of mine from the day before and I was ready to pursue an order for a dodger! I understand that that everyone has experienced poor service at one time or another and that every business is not perfect. Your story however, illustrates a situation well beyond the normal "we screwed up so let's take care of it right away" scenario. Any reputable company will seek all avenues to address the issue versus going to court. Win or lose, bad publicity is the worst kind of publicity. Thank you for your posting Tim. I will be seeking other means of securing a new dodger for my Catalina! Any recommendations?
To be fair....
I should have noted in my original post: To be fair to The Canvas Store, when I receive payment in full ($1406 + 9% interest annually from Feb 1 '05 + $20 filing fee....all mandated by the court), I will post here that I have been paid in full. I still invite The Canvas Store to answer the questions posed in my original post. Gary, I don't have a rec for you for a dodger in WA, sorry. I will suggest you use someone locally. I am pretty much done using mail order for items that should be fitted to each individual boat. Good luck! Tim
I should have noted in my original post: To be fair to The Canvas Store, when I receive payment in full ($1406 + 9% interest annually from Feb 1 '05 + $20 filing fee....all mandated by the court), I will post here that I have been paid in full. I still invite The Canvas Store to answer the questions posed in my original post. Gary, I don't have a rec for you for a dodger in WA, sorry. I will suggest you use someone locally. I am pretty much done using mail order for items that should be fitted to each individual boat. Good luck! Tim
Total Agreement
Having seen the world as a consumer and supplier I can understand that things can go wrong. Any reputable business man will make every effort to correct a mistake. It is understandable that things can happen. However, far too often businesses will take your money and not deliver on their promises. This forum is a wonderful way of getting the message out to others to be wary of these kinds of unscrupulous businesses. Good for you at pursuing these clowns and I hope you get all your money back. PS Why not try this site? SailboatOwners has a great rep for customer service AND they're in WA!
Having seen the world as a consumer and supplier I can understand that things can go wrong. Any reputable business man will make every effort to correct a mistake. It is understandable that things can happen. However, far too often businesses will take your money and not deliver on their promises. This forum is a wonderful way of getting the message out to others to be wary of these kinds of unscrupulous businesses. Good for you at pursuing these clowns and I hope you get all your money back. PS Why not try this site? SailboatOwners has a great rep for customer service AND they're in WA!
Not nice but,
Since the time is past, you can have their bank accounts shutdown until you get payment. r.w.landau
Since the time is past, you can have their bank accounts shutdown until you get payment. r.w.landau
Ditto, Gary
I too was screwed over by TCS. Finally gave up and had another company come in and fix TCS's mistakes. Cost me big money. I will never buy from them again.
I too was screwed over by TCS. Finally gave up and had another company come in and fix TCS's mistakes. Cost me big money. I will never buy from them again.
Speaking of 'service',
this site is the best. Honest. Once, a couple of years ago there was confusion with an order I placed with HOW. I wanted a pedestal guard cup holder. I was sent fold-up cockpit seats from the vendor in Texas. Bly worked with me and it was evident that she was frustrated with the vendor too. When she was able to get the cup holder to me she waved ALL charges. Then I bought a sail cover from HOW. It didn't fit and it could never be altered to fit properly. I sent email pictures to HOW and they sent a UPS pickup to my home. All for free. Then I ordered a custom cover from HOW. Perfect. I was also glad to hear that the canvas maker built more than just my cover wrong. A couple of them came back to HOW. I hate to be HOWs only thorn.
this site is the best. Honest. Once, a couple of years ago there was confusion with an order I placed with HOW. I wanted a pedestal guard cup holder. I was sent fold-up cockpit seats from the vendor in Texas. Bly worked with me and it was evident that she was frustrated with the vendor too. When she was able to get the cup holder to me she waved ALL charges. Then I bought a sail cover from HOW. It didn't fit and it could never be altered to fit properly. I sent email pictures to HOW and they sent a UPS pickup to my home. All for free. Then I ordered a custom cover from HOW. Perfect. I was also glad to hear that the canvas maker built more than just my cover wrong. A couple of them came back to HOW. I hate to be HOWs only thorn.
Are we talking about the Canvas Store
in New York or the Canvas Shop here in the Chandlery? r.w.landau
in New York or the Canvas Shop here in the Chandlery? r.w.landau
Puget Sound Gary
There was an "Artful Doger" from Pt. Townsend on my boat when I got it. It's 10 years old and has been restiched and windows replaced and is holding up fine. Might give them a call, not sure how old the number is but I have 206-385-2670.
There was an "Artful Doger" from Pt. Townsend on my boat when I got it. It's 10 years old and has been restiched and windows replaced and is holding up fine. Might give them a call, not sure how old the number is but I have 206-385-2670.
A Suggestion Gary
"Perfect timing Tim! I literally received an email response from TCS just five minutes before seeing your posting. " Might I be so bold as to suggest that you contact TCS, and let them know of your decision, and why? That's VERY effective! Obviously, it won't do you much good, but might do Tim some good, as well as "the next guy".
"Perfect timing Tim! I literally received an email response from TCS just five minutes before seeing your posting. " Might I be so bold as to suggest that you contact TCS, and let them know of your decision, and why? That's VERY effective! Obviously, it won't do you much good, but might do Tim some good, as well as "the next guy".
Bad Business
Companies like TCS need to realize that shafting you on $1400 will cost them a good deal more. Because of your post, they have made my "black list" if I ever need a cover or anything else they may sell. I'm sure there are plenty of other lurkers on here who won't respond to the thread as I have who will scratch them off their list of potential vendors for boat accessories. Holding out on refunding $1400 can conservatively multiply into $14,000 worth of lost future revenues. Thanks for the warning.
Companies like TCS need to realize that shafting you on $1400 will cost them a good deal more. Because of your post, they have made my "black list" if I ever need a cover or anything else they may sell. I'm sure there are plenty of other lurkers on here who won't respond to the thread as I have who will scratch them off their list of potential vendors for boat accessories. Holding out on refunding $1400 can conservatively multiply into $14,000 worth of lost future revenues. Thanks for the warning.
R.W....
<<< Are we talking about the Canvas Store in New York or the Canvas Shop here in the Chandlery? r.w.landau >>> The Canvas Store in Huntington, New York (Long Island). www.thecanvasstore.com The ones that advertise in all the magazines for their "custom fit" winter covers made with "Top Gun" material, and promise 100% satisfaction. I guess that's if you can ever get them on the phone after the sale! 100% satisfaction for me is a full refund + the other stuff the court said I'm entitled to, period. FWIW, I have also written to SAIL, SAILING, and CRUISING WORLD editors/publishers and asked that they evaluate accepting further advertising from TCS. Also in the process of writing to all the boat show managers as well.
<<< Are we talking about the Canvas Store in New York or the Canvas Shop here in the Chandlery? r.w.landau >>> The Canvas Store in Huntington, New York (Long Island). www.thecanvasstore.com The ones that advertise in all the magazines for their "custom fit" winter covers made with "Top Gun" material, and promise 100% satisfaction. I guess that's if you can ever get them on the phone after the sale! 100% satisfaction for me is a full refund + the other stuff the court said I'm entitled to, period. FWIW, I have also written to SAIL, SAILING, and CRUISING WORLD editors/publishers and asked that they evaluate accepting further advertising from TCS. Also in the process of writing to all the boat show managers as well.
Try this site
I used this site for my pedestal cover, stern seats and wrench covers. The service was ok. Their prices were very reasonable but I don't think I'd use them again.
I used this site for my pedestal cover, stern seats and wrench covers. The service was ok. Their prices were very reasonable but I don't think I'd use them again.
Maybe we all should write to
The Canvas Store in Huntington , NY. and let them know we will not be doing any business till Tim in Detroit gets his money owed him. Let them know we all talk and stand behind one another. Or we all can do nothing and let Tim be owed his money and let someone else down the line get screwed.Think I'll do mine tonight. Maybe I'll use up some of their time and place a order.And not follow through. Like they did Tims. The court has spoken, now it's time for the people to act. Keep it up, Ctskip
The Canvas Store in Huntington , NY. and let them know we will not be doing any business till Tim in Detroit gets his money owed him. Let them know we all talk and stand behind one another. Or we all can do nothing and let Tim be owed his money and let someone else down the line get screwed.Think I'll do mine tonight. Maybe I'll use up some of their time and place a order.And not follow through. Like they did Tims. The court has spoken, now it's time for the people to act. Keep it up, Ctskip
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