BUYER BEWARE, Part 2

[Ross]

Be careful to avoid being libelous

Also wire fraud is still a crime so placing an order with the intent of canceling should be avoided. It is fine to inform them that you have first hand knowledge of their poor performance on one order but try to avoid taring them with too wide a brush.Tim can at his option ask the sheriff to arrest one of their trucks and sell it at public auction to recover his judgement but he must not libel them. If he does that it could come back and bite him.

 

[sailormanbigd]

HEADS UP

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP!!!!!GOOD LUCK

 

[Bob Todd]

Canvas is meant to be custom fitted to the boat...

I have never seen mail-order canvas work out without a hassle of one kind or another. Either the buyer had to send it back for alterations or it simply wouldn't fit at all.I prefer to have the local guy come to my boat, measure, pattern, fit, and finish.I find it hard to fathom a bunch of folks so dead-set against mail-order sails doing business with mail-order canvas. Both need to be fitted.Just my eversohumble opinion.Anyway, I hope you get your money back soon and you can put this nightmare behind you.Cheers,Bob

 

[Brian D]

shiller ...

What is the link or name of the company?

 

[Gary8165]

TCS has been notified...

I responded to TCS (New York) and attached this link for their review. I do not expect any response from them but perhaps Tim will. Good luck to you Tim, we are all hoping the best for you.Now I am off to spend my $$$ elsewhere!(Thanks for the reccomendation Scott in Seattle)

 

[RAD]

Just met them at Newport

Went to the Newport Boat Show this past weekend and saw there booth and talked at great lenth about a winter cover for my 32 ODay, thanks for the heads up on this guyI'll post the phone number and address of the Suffolk County Consumer Affairs Dept. tomorrow when I get to my office they will and they do respond to guys who have done consumers wrong and you have the judgement already so this will be more pressure to resolve it.

 

[RAD]

Found a link for

Suffolk County Consumer Affairs Dept

 

[r.w.landau]

Tim, again, if you have not already,

ask your lawyer to freeze their accounts. It should be a stipulation in the judgement against TCS. TCS will be able to deposit but they can not pay bills, employees, etc. until you are paid. I had a plumber friend in a similar situation. After his lawyer had the other accounts frozen, he had his money two days later.Please make sure you had nothing to do with the problem.....r.w.landau

 

[catwithhat]

Dodger Recommendation in Wa.

Jason Iverson did the dodger on my Beneteau. He does first rate work and is a pleasure to work with. http://www.iversonsdesign.com/images/photo_pages/2004_0624A/2004_0624A.html

 

[Tim]

Update

Thanks to all for your support here! As of today, no change and I have not been contacted by TCS to arrange settlement. I actually expect to hear from their lawyer threatening to sue ME for this posting.RAD: Thanks for the link to the consumers affairs dept., I will look into it. Not sure it'll get anywhere as TCS is already ignoring a court-ordered award, though.R.W.: I have already started the next legal steps through the Sheriff's office in Suffolk Co., and have contacted the NY State Atty General's office about this. The consequences for a business in default seem to be pretty onerous based on the info I was given by the court, so I'm not sure what TCS is thinking, other than to see just how far I'll take this, hoping I give up at some point. I have also documented everything, and I certainly had nothing to do with the problem. TCS admitted in court the cover wasn't right (after 15 months of denying it to me). A neutral arbitrator ruled in my favor.MJB: Unfortunately my experience with TCS is NOT unique. Do an archive search for "the canvas store" and you will find others who have had remarkably similar treatment. I will whole-heartedly agree with what others have said (and I have seen) in that when their product is right, its a great product (I even wrote them and told them that). The problem is when it's not right; they simply refuse to address the issues, and have a multitude of reasons why the customer is always wrong. I'm sure they treat their "local" customers with the highest service, but I haven't experienced that as a mail-order customer. I can't begin to tell you how many times and for how long I tried to get them to listen to the issue with the cover, and offered to do whatever it took to make the cover fit, only to be ignored. Only under legal oath did the owner admit the cover was wrong, and even then he tried to pass it off to the arbitrator as a small error in one place. Look at my web page on the link, does it look like a small error in one place? I would like to ask you to do this for me as a local customer: go see TCS and ask them why they denied my claim for 15 months, then when they lost in front of an arbitrator (something TCS owner told me I needed to do in December '05 because he didn't want to deal with me), and now refuses to abide by that arbitrator's decision. Maybe with the threat of his local clientele looking elsewhere, he'll do the right thing.Again, thanks to all for your supportTim

 

[tcbro]

Hope it goes your way

Tim, A guy a few slips from me bought a mail-order cover from these guys last year. It seems to fit fine and the quality of the workmanship was good. Good quality workmanship doesn't mean much if they made the wrong product. It looks to me like they simply picked up the WRONG PATTERN when they made your cover! I'm in a custom business (printing) and I can print a beautiful piece but if I printed the wrong thing, that beautiful quality is lost. Everybody in a custom business will make a mistake sooner or later. The real measure of a company is how they handle that mistake. Obviously, these guys failed.Toms/v Orion's Child

 

[Tim]

Another update...

Well another week has gone by and no word from TCS. I wonder how they "did" at the Norwalk Boat Show? I had some emails with a regional director for the National Marine Marketing Assoc. who said he was going to talk to TCS about my situation. I wonder what story HE got?!

 

[mjb]

Response to Tim from Detroit

Tim Porter: A response…After feeling much maligned by Mr. Porter, I feel that I can no longer keep quiet. To clarify, there has been no final decision handed down by the courts as per a Trial De Novo filing. Therefore, the “award” to which Mr. Porter speaks of, at this time, simply does not exist. Our dispute primarily is one of installation; we offer an unconditional fit guarantee with each cover we sell, and stand behind that guarantee for as long as you own your boat. We told Mr. Porter we would refund his money if the cover did not fit. Well, we put on the cover on a sister ship and it fit properly. Mr. Porter is wrong is slander us, and I am personally offended at his attacks.Rebecca WindsorOperations Manager,The Canvas Store

 

[Mark P]

Well now...

Rebecca,If your cover fits so perfectly, why don't you then post a picture of it, on the "sistership" - of course, the boat and year should be the same? Why did you force the buyer to go to court? Why would I ever want to buy a winter cover from your store (I am in the market for one now)?

 

[Tim]

Trial de Novo time expired

Ms. Windsor,I was not served within the 35 days TCS had to file for Trial de Novo, therefore, according to the info I was given by the court TCS is in default of the judgment awarded Aug 7th. I have contacted the court for the next steps as outlined in the info we both received, and they sent me the materials for further action. Therefore they must feel the deadline was not met and your request for "appeal" had not been filed. They did not inform me anything further had been filed.I have not slandered you. I have stated my experience to date with TCS, as I informed you I would when your company refused to work with me in a timely manner to resolve this problem. FYI, Mr. McGovern stated in court, under oath, that the cover DID NOT fit after all. That was after 15 months of me trying to work with him, and a total of 20 months by the time we went to court.Please read the court's award again, I believe it says "undisputed that the plaintiff rejected non-conforming goods". I'm not a lawyer, but I take 'undisputed' to mean the defendant did not dispute my claim the 'goods' did not conform to the fit depicted in your brochure and ads.Your company has had my money since January 2005, and in the two winters since then my boat was covered with your cover for 4 months. My boat went uncovered last winter. How long was I to wait for "guaranteed fit"? Why was I told I was not wanted at the "fitting" on the sistership? I could have been there at any time, and Mr. McGovern could have shown me in person how to properly install the cover (since I'm so stupid that I couldn't figure it out).The pictures speak for themselves. Not once has Mr. McGovern ever been willing to discuss them. I still invite you to address the questions posed in my original post. TCS's continued insistance on fighting this issue rather than simply refunding my money only serves to solidify my case. I am truly sorry it has come to this.Regards,Tim Porter

 

[sailingseadragon]

I too will be purchasing a boat cover ...

at the Annapolis Sailboat show next week.... I am not interested purchasing a cover that fits a sister ship... I will be looking for a cover that will fit my ship..I now know which booth to avoid.

 

[Scott21120]

Sistership???

Perhaps Tim would have been more satisfied with a cover the fit HIS boat, not a "sistership". I know my wife is a much better fit for me than her sister would be

 

[Bill]

TCS not recommended

I ordered a cover for one of the most popular boats built and it was 4 inches short. I had to deal with these guys for a year before I received some money back. They kept my original down payment and I just got tired of trying to contact them all the time. They are now getting their just reward. Word of mouth is the best advertising! I only got my some of my money back because I had my credit card card company on my side. In my opinion they are POOR, POOR in service.

 

[Tim]

Email me Bill

Bill,Please email me directly at BffettFan@aol.com.I would like to hear more of your story and establish contact with you should I need future legal corroboration regarding their service.Thanks,Tim

 

[Tim]

Trial de Novo....too late

Ms. Windsor,I just spoke with the court clerk of the Third District Court, Suffolk County, New York, located at 1850 New York Ave. Huntington Station, NY 11746. regarding the case HUSC 06 0000312. Plaintiff and Judgment Debtor, Nautical Equipment Sales, Ltd. (dba The Canvas Store) and/or Mr. Steve McGovern DID NOT file for a Trial de Novo (appeal before a judge) within the 35 days allowed by the court. There is no record of a filing, and no record they received the $75 filing fee.The court clerk told me it is too late to file it, and I am owed the judgment, period.Looks like TCS's attention to timeliness with regard to filing for Trial de Novo equaled the timeliness with regard to the issue of the cover. There was a time when this could have been resolved amicably (with a cover that fit) in the Fall of 2005. TCS chose to ignore me instead, and now it appears TCS ignored the procedures outlined by the court to their own detriment.When can I expect a certified check for $1406 + 9% interest from Feb '05 + $20?No problem if Mr. McGovern still refuses, I believe the Sheriff will handle the collection for me.Regards,Tim